• WikiLeaks releases 20k emails from DNC
    170 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50763192]I'd say Trump lies more and is about as corrupt, if we are quantifying the funding of political campaigns as corruption.[/QUOTE] I think there's a distinction between corruptor and corrupted. Even if Trump participated in corrupting politicians as a businessman, I've yet to see anything that suggests Trump himself is corrupt.
[QUOTE=srobins;50763347]I think there's a distinction between corruptor and corrupted. Even if Trump participated in corrupting politicians as a businessman, I've yet to see anything that suggests Trump himself is corrupt.[/QUOTE] I don't see a distinction at all because without a corrupting influence you wouldn't have someone becoming corrupt. Again, using corruption as a byword for campaign contributions; I don't really believe either one of them are truly corrupt.
[QUOTE=srobins;50763347]Even if Trump participated in corrupting politicians as a businessman, I've yet to see anything that suggests Trump himself is corrupt.[/QUOTE] That's literally fucking corruption! And you're saying that wouldn't suggest he was corrupt?! You have really bought into this Trump cult of personality, huh?
[QUOTE=Monkah;50762504]A vote for Hillary is a vote for corruption, cheating, and lies. But then again, I'm pretty sure most of us already knew this.[/QUOTE] It's also a vote against Trump I'd take corruption, cheating, and lies over whatever lunacy Trump will bring
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;50763361]That's literally fucking corruption! And you're saying that wouldn't suggest he was corrupt?! You have really bought into this Trump cult of personality, huh?[/QUOTE] No, I hate Trump, but I see no evidence of him being controlled or influenced by an outside party. Is that simple enough for you?
Trump may be a power hungry bigot but he played by the rules to everyone's surprise. Why do you think the GOP was so furious he got so far?
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50763386]It's also a vote against Trump I'd take corruption, cheating, and lies over whatever lunacy Trump will bring[/QUOTE] In my eyes they essentially cancel each other out if all you care about is honesty and money in politics. Then you get into a policy debate and Trumps policy is simply indefensible.
I think receiving bribes is far more corrupt and far more of a red flag for our next POTUS than is having sent them. But that's just me.
I heard somewhere that "Hillary represents everything wrong with the American Government, and Trump represents everything wrong with the American People."
[QUOTE=Monkah;50763421]I think receiving bribes is far more corrupt and far more of a red flag for our next POTUS than is having sent them. But that's just me.[/QUOTE] What sort of bribes did Clinton receive? If you want to talk red flags in campaign financing though, lets talk the 20% of Trumps budget that goes right back to his businesses, and the fact that no one really knows if the donations he recieves goes to the campaign or back to fulfilling the loan for $50 million he took out to fund the campaign.
[QUOTE=srobins;50763400]No, I hate Trump, but I see no evidence of him being controlled or influenced by an outside party. Is that simple enough for you?[/QUOTE] OK I'm going to admit I'm wrong on calling you out and saying you're a Trump supporter, sorry. I'm a bit on edge from earlier. (I know that doesn't excuse it, but I hope it explains it.) I still think that using your power to corrupt others is corruption though.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50763473]What sort of bribes did Clinton receive? If you want to talk red flags in campaign financing though, lets talk the 20% of Trumps budget that goes right back to his businesses, and the fact that no one really knows if the donations he recieves goes to the campaign or back to fulfilling the loan for $50 million he took out to fund the campaign.[/QUOTE] Um.. Wouldn't paying off a loan made to fund your campaign be a reasonable use of campaign funds?
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;50763386]It's also a vote against Trump I'd take corruption, cheating, and lies over whatever lunacy Trump will bring[/QUOTE] Then vote for Jill? Sorry but you have options besides both, no ones buying this "I'm voting for Hillary but it's not because I approve of her or anything" crap
[QUOTE=srobins;50763546]Um.. Wouldn't paying off a loan made to fund your campaign be a reasonable use of campaign funds?[/QUOTE] Not if your gimmick is that you are self-funding your campaign. Taking a loan out then using other peoples money to pay for it while saying you are paying for it is super shady. [editline]23rd July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50763563]Then vote for Jill? Sorry but you have options besides both, no ones buying this "I'm voting for Hillary but it's not because I approve of her or anything" crap[/QUOTE] FPTP system means voting for Jill increases the chances of Trump winning, and if your objective is Trump losing you have to go with the candidate who you don't necessarily see eye to eye with but more so than the other one. Hate the game not the player. [editline]23rd July 2016[/editline] I'm still curious as to what bribes Clinton received. If it's another "A Saudi gave money to the Clinton Foundation so Hillary is going to start executing gays" meme don't bother.
[QUOTE=da space core;50763462]I heard somewhere that "Hillary represents everything wrong with the American Government, and Trump represents everything wrong with the American People."[/QUOTE] yeah that was a sweet facebook meme
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50763565]Not if your gimmick is that you are self-funding your campaign. Taking a loan out then using other peoples money to pay for it while saying you are paying for it is super shady. [editline]23rd July 2016[/editline] FPTP system means voting for Jill increases the chances of Trump winning, and if your objective is Trump losing you have to go with the candidate who you don't necessarily see eye to eye with but more so than the other one. Hate the game not the player. [editline]23rd July 2016[/editline] I'm still curious as to what bribes Clinton received. If it's another "A Saudi gave money to the Clinton Foundation so Hillary is going to start executing gays" meme don't bother.[/QUOTE] So.. Not really corruption, just "shady". Good to know.
I must admit I do find it strange that people said Bernie was a hypocrite for endorsing Clinton and yet didn't say that about the fact that Trump needed donations to fund his campaign, despite saying that he'd pay all of it himself - which means you can't claim he isn't being influenced by someone.
[QUOTE=srobins;50763650]So.. Not really corruption, just "shady". Good to know.[/QUOTE] Certainly shadier* than a businessman who's business prospects would improve by having Clinton as president than throwing. I wasn't saying it was corruption, I said it was a red flag. I've already stated that I don't think either candidate is corrupt as no one has managed to convince me of Clintons corruption. *Note that I'm not actually saying he does that though, I'm saying there is no way to know if he is or not beyond him saying he isn't. Given the fact that he has lied about his finances in the past though it would be a red flag. [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;50763662]I must admit I do find it strange that people said Bernie was a hypocrite for endorsing Clinton and yet didn't say that about the fact that Trump needed donations to fund his campaign, despite saying that he'd pay all of it himself - which means you can't claim he isn't being influenced by someone.[/QUOTE] Most of his donations come from small donors. He only started taking them, ostensibly, because sending the donations back cost his campaign money. I think him funding his own campaign is somewhat noble actually. Obviously I hope he loses but it's a cool move to make.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;50763662]I must admit I do find it strange that people said Bernie was a hypocrite for endorsing Clinton and yet didn't say that about the fact that Trump needed donations to fund his campaign, despite saying that he'd pay all of it himself - which means you can't claim he isn't being influenced by someone.[/QUOTE] In what way are these comparable situations? Also fundraising is a bit different from bribes and sponsors
Why are we even comparing? They're both corrupt assholes!
[QUOTE=srobins;50763650]So.. Not really corruption, just "shady". Good to know.[/QUOTE] [url]http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing[/url] Probably extremely shady regarding Putin as well. He is extremely financially dependent on Russia and as such has single-mindedly attempted to move the party platform to a more pro-Russia stance. I would read this.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50763838][url]http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing[/url] Probably extremely shady regarding Putin as well. He is extremely financially dependent on Russia and as such has single-mindedly attempted to move the party platform to a more pro-Russia stance. I would read this.[/QUOTE] Also, Paul Manafort is really writing up Trump right now like an authoritarian Dictator (or a putin-type strongman right now), it's getting people really nervous (especially Holocaust Survivors and Russia Refugees)
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;50763923]Also, Paul Manafort is really writing up Trump right now like an authoritarian Dictator (or a putin-type strongman right now), it's getting people really nervous (especially Holocaust Survivors and Russia Refugees)[/QUOTE] This is what worries me as well. Most right-wing populists at least claim they're doing it in the name of freedom. Trump doesn't bother and is brazenly and outwardly authoritarian and obviously trying to position himself as a strongman with a personality cult.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50763938]This is what worries me as well. Most right-wing populists at least claim they're doing it in the name of freedom. Trump doesn't bother and is brazenly and outwardly authoritarian and obviously trying to position himself as a strongman with a personality cult.[/QUOTE] This is not to say he will turn USA into a dictatorship, but it's like Paul Manafort cannot write anything like a western politician.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50763838][url]http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trump-putin-yes-it-s-really-a-thing[/url] Probably extremely shady regarding Putin as well. He is extremely financially dependent on Russia and as such has single-mindedly attempted to move the party platform to a more pro-Russia stance. I would read this.[/QUOTE] I'll read when I get home, sounds interesting thanks. [editline]23rd July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=OmniConsUme;50763923]Also, Paul Manafort is really writing up Trump right now like an authoritarian Dictator (or a putin-type strongman right now), it's getting people really nervous (especially Holocaust Survivors and Russia Refugees)[/QUOTE] Watching Christie's speech at the RNC made me a bit scared for America. Granted, I think Clinton likely deserves to be locked up anyway, but watching him give a public trial of opinion and have a crowd of people screaming "GUILTY! GUILTY!" was like something from a teenage dystopian novel. Just so blazenly wrong and riotous, I worry that a Trump presidency might actually transform America in a bad way.
[QUOTE=srobins;50764076] Watching Christie's speech at the RNC made me a bit scared for America. Granted, I think Clinton likely deserves to be locked up anyway, but watching him give a public trial of opinion and have a crowd of people screaming "GUILTY! GUILTY!" was like something from a teenage dystopian novel. Just so blazenly wrong and riotous, I worry that a Trump presidency might actually transform America in a bad way.[/QUOTE] What is the difference, morally, from someone shouting guilty at a rally and someone posting that she should be locked up on an internet forum?
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[QUOTE=Raidyr;50764106]What is the difference, morally, from someone shouting guilty at a rally and someone posting that she should be locked up on an internet forum?[/QUOTE] I'm not getting into this with you. If you fail to see the difference or understand my point, its on you. Any reasonable person should be able to grasp the magnitude of a prominent governor calling for the lawless imprisonment of a political rival in front of a crowd of thousands of chanting party members.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50764106]What is the difference, morally, from someone shouting guilty at a rally and someone posting that she should be locked up on an internet forum?[/QUOTE] The difference is is that Christie is a public politician who was calling for mob justice, while people online are literal nobodies. One is doing something unwise at best and is inciting hate at worst - the other is yelling into the abyss, signaling nothing.
[img]http://puu.sh/qcba2/120dab1221.jpg[/img] wtf!!!
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