Head teachers threaten to report parents to the police if they let their kids play CoD - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Explosions;47420276]After age 5 most people have developed reasoning which allows them to differentiate between fantasy and reality.[/QUOTE] Age 5 is a bit early, I would say more around age 7 is when they begin to form the ability to reason logically. But bringing up the topic, as several other people said, there isn't really any correlation between violent video games and violent behavior.

I played GTA Vice City when I was like 6-7, and Counter Strike 1.6 and loved goring people on Half Life multiplayer. Up to this day in my life I've never gotten in a fight that's like, physical or serious.

I played mortal kombat and GTA 1-2 when i was like 4-5 i could do all the fatalities I guess i'm a sociopath murderer now

'I played videogames when I was young and am fine' is akin to 'I smoke every day and don't have cancer' as far as arguments go. Anecdotes are not a substitute for actual research. Whether games encourage violence or not (and signs point to no), desensitization is a real thing, and there is research showing exposure to sexuality affects children's development. Call me old-fashioned but I don't think watching Kratos ripping someone's spine out or CJ picking up hookers is good entertainment for ten-year-olds.

[QUOTE=catbarf;47422946]'I played videogames when I was young and am fine' is akin to 'I smoke every day and don't have cancer' as far as arguments go. Anecdotes are not a substitute for actual research. Whether games encourage violence or not (and signs point to no), desensitization is a real thing, and there is research showing exposure to sexuality affects children's development. Call me old-fashioned but I don't think watching Kratos ripping someone's spine out or CJ picking up hookers is good entertainment for ten-year-olds.[/QUOTE] Why are children getting ahold of games like God of War and GTA? At least where I come from, they ask you for ID when buying a rated M game. So surely the kids aren't buying it. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;47422976]Why are children getting ahold of games like God of War and GTA? At least where I come from, they ask you for ID when buying a rated M game. So surely the kids aren't buying it. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Well yeah, it's the parents' responsibility to control what their kids are playing, and a lot of parents are really woefully uninformed about what they're buying for their kids. That's why these kinds of programs like in the OP are targeted at the parents. Threatening to go to the police is laughable, but I can understand trying to get the parents to take a more active role in deciding what is appropriate for their children.

My little sister came home today and told me that her headteacher told her school about this. I laughed. Hard.

I played gta when I was 6, not everyone is stupid enough to make dumb stuff because of playing violent video games at an early age.

[QUOTE=Ricenchicken;47421859]Age 5 is a bit early, I would say more around age 7 is when they begin to form the ability to reason logically. But bringing up the topic, as several other people said, there isn't really any correlation between violent video games and violent behavior.[/QUOTE] Are you just making up ages? It depends on the study, but 5 is probably the latest age where children understand the difference between fantasy and reality. Most experts agree that somewhere around age 2 the distinction is made.

OR parents could just be fucking responsible and teach their kids the difference between media and reality like mine did...

[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;47424520]OR parents could just be fucking responsible and teach their kids the difference between media and reality like mine did...[/QUOTE] Meanwhile in a world where scientific research trumps 'just teach your kids better' and 'well *I* turned out fine', there are plenty of studies ([url=http://sitemaker.umich.edu/brad.bushman/files/ba09.pdf]for example[/url]) which show a desensitization effect from violent media. What you make of that and how you think it should be treated is up to you, but blowing off actual scientific research with 'well the parents just need to be responsible' is absolute nonsense. This is not something where you just tell your kid that the game's not real and real life is and that's that. It's an enormously contentious issue, but there's evidence to suggest that repeated desensitization to violence and exposure to sexuality from a young age affects the way people develop cognitively. It still needs a lot more research to show anything definitive, but it's [I]extremely[/I] short-sighted and revealing of the speaker's bias to say it's a non-issue because we all intuitively know games are safe for kids.

Maybe they should tell parents to get more involved in the things their kids do, so they can help them through understanding the interactions that happen in these games. I've been playing Doom since I was 5, and my dad always had me understand that the game wasn't about killing tons of dudes, but instead about saving the world and that sort of stuff (it's actually mostly about killing tons of dudes). Because, like, I can understand people thinking kids get the wrong ideas from videogames. But if they actually think they are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality they need to get their head checked. Especially if they think reporting parents to the police for EVIL VIDEOGAMES is anything but a waste of time.

[QUOTE=Explosions;47424497]Are you just making up ages? It depends on the study, but 5 is probably the latest age where children understand the difference between fantasy and reality. Most experts agree that somewhere around age 2 the distinction is made.[/QUOTE] What I've read is that it's possible for kids to distinguish fiction/reality at age 5, but it also happens at age 7+. Wasn't making up an age, it just seems we've read different studies.

I dont think its the schools business, and it depends on the kid and how mature they are. I started playing violent games and watching gorey movies when i was about 8; most of it i did with my dad to spend time together. I turned out fine bc before i started partaking in violent media he had a somewhat long talk to me about how important it is to remember that "its only a game/movie/etc." and its very different to real life

this whole hysteria about video games are violent for kids thing is probably going to die off in about a decade.

I love violently murdering people. In video games. In real life I'm a fucking [I]pacifist[/I] who has moral dilemmas over whether she'd be able to kill someone to [B]save somebody else's life[/B]. Preeeetty certain video games didn't make me any more violent.

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47429543]Preeeetty certain video games didn't make me any more violent.[/QUOTE] 'I've been smoking since I was a kid and I feel like I'm in great health, pretty certain cigarettes didn't damage my lungs' This type of argument wouldn't fly in any other context, it's only when gamers get defensive over videogames that personal experience suddenly trumps scientific research. Studies have been done and they're a lot less conclusive than the black-and-white 'well I played games and I'm not violent' assertions. I posted a link to a relatively recent one above, it references other studies exploring desensitization effects of violent media as well. Plus these arguments are being used to suggest that Grand Theft Auto and God of War are suitable entertainment for young children, which is a whole other issue entirely from just whether or not they can be conclusively demonstrated to have an effect on cognitive development. This issue isn't going to die down until either parents start taking more responsibility for what entertainment they provide their kids, or the industry forces them to do it. It's already been a decade since Jack Thompson was making waves and two decades since the fears over Doom- why will it stop now?

[QUOTE=catbarf;47429716]'I've been smoking since I was a kid and I feel like I'm in great health, pretty certain cigarettes didn't damage my lungs' This type of argument wouldn't fly in any other context, it's only when gamers get defensive over videogames that personal experience suddenly trumps scientific research. Studies have been done and they're a lot less conclusive than the black-and-white 'well I played games and I'm not violent' assertions. I posted a link to a relatively recent one above, it references other studies exploring desensitization effects of violent media as well. Plus these arguments are being used to suggest that Grand Theft Auto and God of War are suitable entertainment for young children, which is a whole other issue entirely from just whether or not they can be conclusively demonstrated to have an effect on cognitive development. This issue isn't going to die down until either parents start taking more responsibility for what entertainment they provide their kids, or the industry forces them to do it. It's already been a decade since Jack Thompson was making waves and two decades since the fears over Doom- why will it stop now?[/QUOTE] Excuse me, but would you like to point out to me where people have been saying that God of War and GTA are suitable for kids? Many of us have already stated they are games not intended for children, and normally, children would be unable to acquire these games as you need an 18+ ID to acquire them. Also, Violent Media. This pertains to things other than video games correct? Violent movies, books, tv shows, etc. I just find it funny that the only thing anyone ever talks about when mentioning violent media, is violent video games.

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;47429791]Excuse me, but would you like to point out to me where people have been saying that God of War and GTA are suitable for kids?[/QUOTE] Maybe I'm being presumptive, but you have plenty of people in this thread saying 'I played (insert violent game here) since I was six and it was fine' as a response to the OP, justifying playing violent games from a young age, so to me that's pretty clearly saying that they're acceptable entertainment for young children. [QUOTE=Solo Wing;47429791]Also, Violent Media. This pertains to things other than video games correct? Violent movies, books, tv shows, etc. I just find it funny that the only thing anyone ever talks about when mentioning violent media, is violent video games.[/QUOTE] Probably because when it comes to film and TV there is a strong push for parents to be aware of violent content, and people readily accept that they probably shouldn't show Scarface to their six-year-old, yet parents will happily queue up to buy their kids the latest popular M-rated game without a second thought. It's not that there's more research being done on games than film, but that parents and the public don't treat games the way they do other violent media, and the idea that violent films could have an effect on kids doesn't blow up into a controversy with film fans pouring out of the woodwork to explain how they've been watching R-rated films since they were children and turned out fine. That's why I said this is going to continue until there is a push for parents to take more responsibility, as there was with film. The issue isn't the games themselves, it's how the public treats them, because ultimately it's up to the parents to provide age-appropriate entertainment for their kids. Whether that push towards responsibility comes from raised awareness through grassroots efforts, some form of education for parents as in this ham-handed case, or proactive steps from the industry itself, remains to be seen. I would also add that while it's premature to say anything conclusive, research shows a massive difference between violent visual media and violent text, and that there are also substantial differences between playing games and watching movies. The study I posted above shows this and talks about it a bit, it's worth checking out if you have the time. Just saying that a lot of research does focus specifically on games because they're a very recent medium and demonstrably different from other media. [editline]31st March 2015[/editline] Oh, and there is this post, which has twelve disagrees, so there are clearly some people here who feel that GTA is suitable for kids: [QUOTE=Superwafflez;47417063]Primary schools here cater for people under like 11.... they probably shouldn't be playing GTA at an age which is pretty darn impressionable.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;47417393]Reminds me of that time my kindergarten teacher told my mom that Satan watches MTV, so she shouldn't let me watch it :v:[/QUOTE] I didn't get to experience Pokemon or Harry Potter because of the former's full name being "Pocket Monsters" and she somehow equated that to demons or some shit and the latter because of some dumb bullshit that was probably "MAGIC IS BAD" or something. But playing Unreal Tournament '99 with my dad was fine apparently. [editline]31st March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Superwafflez;47417063]Primary schools here cater for people under like 11.... they probably shouldn't be playing GTA at an age which is pretty darn impressionable.[/QUOTE] I played all sorts of GTA when I was a kid, and I turned out perfectly fine. The only one I never got to play until way later was San Andreas and that was because it wasn't a mafia thing and my dad severely disapproved of the "black gang thug" thing. Note that the racial thing was from his mouth, not mine.

I played doom 2 when I was like 8 and I sure as hell haven't killed anyone or ever acted really violent.

[QUOTE=space1;47434645]I played doom 2 when I was like 8 and I sure as hell haven't killed anyone or ever acted really violent.[/QUOTE] that's exactly what a school shooter would say!

[QUOTE=gk99;47434521]I didn't get to experience Pokemon or Harry Potter because of the former's full name being "Pocket Monsters" and she somehow equated that to demons or some shit and the latter because of some dumb bullshit that was probably "MAGIC IS BAD" or something. But playing Unreal Tournament '99 with my dad was fine apparently.[/QUOTE] I was in the same situation except for UT99 gore was set to ultra-low and we were only allowed to fight against skaarjs, robots, and other non-human bots since real humans exist but it's fine to kill virtual robots and aliens since skaarjs don't actually exist and robots that do exist don't have any feelings.

[QUOTE=Skerion;47434736]I was in the same situation except for UT99 gore was set to ultra-low and we were only allowed to fight against skaarjs, robots, and other non-human bots since real humans exist but it's fine to kill virtual robots and aliens since skaarjs don't actually exist and robots that do exist don't have any feelings.[/QUOTE] I had full-on gore and swearing taunts enabled. But a cute water turtle thing shooting water at a yellow thing that squeals "pikachu" is apparently not suitable for such an impressionable young Christian child as I.

Pretty sure I wouldn't let a primary school student play any form of game with the same themes as GTA. There's kids that play outside my house that are in primary school. They are basically still babies.

Some kids are obviously gonna be more prone to being influenced by violence and sex in video games, I don't really see the problem in asking parents to be careful what they let their kids see and do. I mean just 'cause us lot have been playing gta since we were 8 years old and don't have problems, doesn't mean other people haven't been badly effected by the themes of games like GTA. As much as people on here would hate to admit it there are probably some of us who have been effected. There are definitely kids who could have their image of sex or the norms of society corrupted by constantly watching a man in a gimp suit hit whores with dildos.

[QUOTE=catbarf;47424830]Meanwhile in a world where scientific research trumps 'just teach your kids better' and 'well *I* turned out fine', there are plenty of studies ([url=http://sitemaker.umich.edu/brad.bushman/files/ba09.pdf]for example[/url]) which show a desensitization effect from violent media. What you make of that and how you think it should be treated is up to you, but blowing off actual scientific research with 'well the parents just need to be responsible' is absolute nonsense. This is not something where you just tell your kid that the game's not real and real life is and that's that. It's an enormously contentious issue, but there's evidence to suggest that repeated desensitization to violence and exposure to sexuality from a young age affects the way people develop cognitively. It still needs a lot more research to show anything definitive, but it's [I]extremely[/I] short-sighted and revealing of the speaker's bias to say it's a non-issue because we all intuitively know games are safe for kids.[/QUOTE] Is desensitization really a bad thing though? I'd argue it isn't. Literally everyone I know that's the same age or younger than me has played "VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES" since like 7 years old. 12 year old cousin I have has been playing shit like CoD and GTA since he was like 7 and he is the most spectacular kid I know. It's easy to sit in a forum and make high and mighty posts dismissing everyone's personal experiences as anecdotes, no matter how many cases are actually being mentioned, but that should be that parents' call to make. Some kids are more mature than others and you should buy games for your child based on that. It's true that we shouldn't just treat everything as a non-issue, but we also can't make blanket statements calling every parent who buys a mature game for their kid irresponsible, which to me seems like what you're trying to do.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47450947]Is desensitization really a bad thing though? I'd argue it isn't.[/QUOTE] When it's being measured in behaviors like people being less likely to come to the aid of an injured stranger, then yes I'd say desensitization (people caring less about acts of violence) is a bad thing. I don't see how you could view that as a positive or even a neutral. [QUOTE=FetusFondler;47450947]Literally everyone I know that's the same age or younger than me has played "VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES" since like 7 years old. 12 year old cousin I have has been playing shit like CoD and GTA since he was like 7 and he is the most spectacular kid I know. It's easy to sit in a forum and make high and mighty posts dismissing everyone's personal experiences as anecdotes, no matter how many cases are actually being mentioned, but that should be that parents' call to make.[/QUOTE] When I was that age I was playing the Jaguar Aliens vs Predator, Marathon, Pathways Into Darkness, MDK, and a whole host of other violent games. I was also living in a country that recently was considered an active warzone. So yeah, I've had my exposure to both violent media and violence in real life from a young age, and I don't [I]think[/I] I'm worse for it- but how can I say that with any kind of objectivity? It's not hard to find issues where the 'everybody knows' popular wisdom turned out to be utterly wrong. There was a time when 'everybody knew' that smoking was fine for you, that people who smoked as kids didn't have any more health issues than people who didn't. It took decades of research to show that common wisdom was dead wrong. The plural of 'anecdote' is not and never has been 'data'. [QUOTE=FetusFondler;47450947]Some kids are more mature than others and you should buy games for your child based on that. It's true that we shouldn't just treat everything as a non-issue, but we also can't make blanket statements calling every parent who buys a mature game for their kid irresponsible, which to me seems like what you're trying to do.[/QUOTE] I agree that some kids are more mature than others, but I don't think that this means there are six-year-olds for whom something like Grand Theft Auto is a good choice of entertainment. If a parent tried to argue that their elementary-age kid is mature enough to handle Predator you'd probably not see a lot of sympathy from the public. But that's really beside the point, because like I said, it is a matter of parenting and parents knowing what they're buying for their kids. My point here is that blowing off legitimate research with 'look at me I turned out fine' is nonsense, and there's good reason to think that overtly violent and sexual entertainment is not appropriate for a young audience and isn't just baseless hand-wringing from self-appointed moral guardians. Even if it's harmless fun for 95% of the audience, the potential for long-term effects for that remaining 5% makes it worth discussing, especially when the issue really boils down to parents being unaware of the content of what they're buying for their kids.

Let me be clear on this. Even though I absolutely hate encountering 10 year old squeakers in video games, the fact that these people are threatening to file false reports of "neglect" to social services is [I]absolutely fucking evil[/I]. Misuse of social services can destroy families and even if they don't, the stress of being investigated by a government agency with total arbitrary power would be quite a horrible experience for everyone involved. In addition, you'd be wasting resources which could be spent on trying to actually identify real threats to children in bad homes. This whole thing should be outright criminal and I hope the school gets it's ass sued back into the dark ages.

We have cyber cafes and PS2 rental place where small kids play GTA San Andreas every day, which honestly makes me surprised. Not to count insane amounts of pirated PC/PS2 game shops. But as far as I know my country is a peaceful place with no school shootings.