‘Kill bankers, not yourselves’ says Greece’s Golden Dawn, and says it aspires to be like Hezbollah - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;40750978]A perfect example, thank you Sobotnik.[/QUOTE] What is more likely? That a single person has found the "truth", with the moderators, and other members of the site, being shills for "them". Or, that person may be using faulty logic and/or reason, with imperfect empirical evidence, to make not even wrong statements, and when challenged and refuses to provide sufficient evidence (such as in that thread where you claimed magic is real), is banned for shitposting?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40751008]What is more likely? That a single person has found the "truth", with the moderators, and other members of the site, being shills for "them". Or, that person may be using faulty logic and/or reason, with imperfect empirical evidence, to make not even wrong statements, and when challenged and refuses to provide sufficient evidence (such as in that thread where you claimed magic is real), is banned for shitposting?[/QUOTE] You speak as if you don't do the things I mentioned. An example would be in the last thread regarding the Golden Dawn. I was arguing the occult relations between Nazi's and the Golden Dawn, and when I made my point you just reverted back to 'Strawman'ing me. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;40681155]Although given that you genuinely believe you were once possessed by a devil and believe magic to be real, along with believing in conspiracy theories, I was initially quick to assume that you thought there was more at work than the typical nazi.[/QUOTE] The issue is not that Logical fallacies should be tolerated, quite the opposite. The issue is that if someone says something along the lines of "Banks Control World Prices", the 'counterargument' (If you can even call it that) is [QUOTE=Sobotnik;40742449]Looking at national debt and printing is very misleading if you want to say the bankers rule the world. pls buy my tinfoil [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;40428623]conspiracy theorists ---------------------------------- 60,000 light years ---------------------------------- reason and logic [editline]26th April 2013[/editline] :)[/QUOTE] [quote]But I was told he was Kenyan, the anti-christ, and responsible for a whole plethora of other crimes? [url]http://www.infowars.com/[/url] I got told here? Are you implying Conspiracy theories are jokes?...[/quote] Basically what I am trying to say is that if you want a civil discussion with evidence and arguments, you must be willing to not attack someone personally, or strawman them. Finally just to address your constant defamation of me in relation to that Debate thread: I provided a means to prove to yourself, an 'experiment'. The fact that you and the moderator thought it was insufficient is something more telling of your objectivity than mine. Regardless I hope in the future we can argue without you constantly reffering to something that more often than not has no direct relation to the conversation at hand. I am just asking you and others nicely to tone down the whole "Herp derp reptilian obama, herp derp tinfoil"

[QUOTE=thisispain;40748616]oh shut it everyone complains about sobotnik and dainbramage yet hardly anyone has the intellectual capacity to argue with them in a level-headed way if they really are so idiotic and dumb then it should be very easy to beat them in an argument[/QUOTE] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1270126[/url] Everyone just gave up, this is like force feeding a mule.

[QUOTE=bubbagamer;40751387][url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1270126[/url] Everyone just gave up, this is like force feeding a mule.[/QUOTE] They're having a easier time at that at gitmo.

[QUOTE=thisispain;40748616]oh shut it everyone complains about sobotnik and dainbramage yet hardly anyone has the intellectual capacity to argue with them in a level-headed way if they really are so idiotic and dumb then it should be very easy to beat them in an argument[/QUOTE] I'll report my response from another thread: [quote]It's because we've finally grown tired of him and find him so annoying that we don't want to waste our energy on trying to penetrate his thick skull. [/quote] Applies equally to both.

if thats true then you shouldnt post at all instead of embarrassing yourselves by hurling abuses at him; its boring to read and fills up the thread with shit that has no purpose if megafan wasnt so kind hed have banned all of you by now

[QUOTE=thisispain;40751441]if thats true then you shouldnt post at all instead of embarrassing yourselves by hurling abuses at him; its boring to read and fills up the thread with shit that has no purpose if megafan wasnt so kind hed have banned all of you by now[/QUOTE] Letting them shit up the thread unrebutted is worse.

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40751458]Letting them shit up the thread unrebutted is worse.[/QUOTE] uhh but calling them retards isn't a rebuttal it's pointless and awful white noise posting

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40751458]Letting them shit up the thread unrebutted is worse.[/QUOTE] I do actually hold an opinion, instead of rating people depending upon my mood.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;40742197]But it was the road of extreme austerity that was foist upon them by predatory international financiers led them towards being a near-failed state with roving packs of neo-nazis as the de-facto police force.[/QUOTE] Without the austerity measures, the impact would have been even worse and much more long term than what you got instead. For the nation as a whole. The biggest problem for greece are essentially two fold. A huge number of the population were employed by the state, which had to have been let go and a lot of its economy is reliant on tourism. Whcih means coupled with the roving bands of neonazis is not really good at all.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;40751183]You speak as if you don't do the things I mentioned. An example would be in the last thread regarding the Golden Dawn. I was arguing the occult relations between Nazi's and the Golden Dawn, and when I made my point you just reverted back to 'Strawman'ing me. The issue is not that Logical fallacies should be tolerated, quite the opposite. The issue is that if someone says something along the lines of "Banks Control World Prices", the 'counterargument' (If you can even call it that) is[/quote] Mainly because these conspiracies are so laughable they only desire ridicule. [quote]Basically what I am trying to say is that if you want a civil discussion with evidence and arguments, you must be willing to not attack someone personally, or strawman them.[/quote] This actually happens, believe it or not. Unfortunately, evidence I have brought up (such as in threads about water flouridation, vaccines, or gm food) tends to be ignored or is claimed to be from an untrustworthy source like the UN. [quote]Finally just to address your constant defamation of me in relation to that Debate thread: I provided a means to prove to yourself, an 'experiment'. The fact that you and the moderator thought it was insufficient is something more telling of your objectivity than mine. Regardless I hope in the future we can argue without you constantly reffering to something that more often than not has no direct relation to the conversation at hand. I am just asking you and others nicely to tone down the whole "Herp derp reptilian obama, herp derp tinfoil"[/QUOTE] Except in that thread you actually had to provide evidence. You just skirted and flirted and went "tee-hee, I won't provide evidence, I'm just going to heavily imply I'm right without posting anything to back it up".

[QUOTE=Stalk;40741293]wut. The bankers ARE the main problem to all the shit that is going on in the world![/QUOTE] Of course they are, it's never the peasant's fault, it's always the big mean rich people.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40751490]I do actually hold an opinion, instead of rating people depending upon my mood.[/QUOTE] Jeep-eep, as much as you rating me agree gives me self-satisfaction Sobotnik has a point. I know you and I have a deep ideological overlap and I would like to see you post about you views, there is no point hiding behind other people when it comes your convictions. We're here to stimulate discussion and challenge ideas, the rating system is not something to hide behind.

Regardless of what you think about bankers I think we can all agree going out and murdering people because of the economy is not something you should be doing.

[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;40752319]Regardless of what you think about bankers I think we can all agree going out and murdering people because of the economy is not something you should be doing.[/QUOTE] This. Not to mention it would HURT the world.

Doubly so since its Fascists pushing for the murder, since they are essentially killing the very people that would support them

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;40752298]Jeep-eep, as much as you rating me agree gives me self-satisfaction Sobotnik has a point. I know you and I have a deep ideological overlap and I would like to see you post about you views, there is no point hiding behind other people when it comes your convictions. We're here to stimulate discussion and challenge ideas, the rating system is not something to hide behind.[/QUOTE] I don't need to echo you. You state most of my opinions well enough.

I don't like how people give Sobotnik dumb ratings just because he's Sobotnik. He's been given boxes by people for making points [i]they made[/i] in other threads. I hardly ever give out dumb ratings and usually feel bad about it afterwards, but when I see behavior like that it reminds me how petty and childish people are. Yeah, sometimes Sobotnik says really silly things that don't make a lot of sense, but he also has moments where he's making valid points. What does he get for his troubles? "your stupid sobotnik go be crazy somewehre else k" That isn't fair. I don't agree with Sobotnik on a [i]lot[/i] of things, but I also don't think dismissing somebody out of hand for no reason is okay.

I hold much more respect for people whom, depsite having opinions diametrically opposite to mine, and trying to get in quips at me often, can actually argue instead of just rating and running off. Much to the extent that I have added several FPers on steam (that I talk to often) whose views on capitalism, the state, politics, philosophy could not be further displaced, but they actually have the ability to make coherent arguments.