Survivalist group wants to build medieval-style fortress in Idaho
258 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;39509850]Tell me, since when does quantity equal quality?[/QUOTE]
If it was so great then it should be more widespread than [B]non-existence[/B]
[QUOTE=scout1;39510283]If it was so great then it should be more widespread than [B]non-existence[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;39510283] Because they were brutally crushed shortly afterwards.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;39510590][/QUOTE]
Yes yes the two that ever existed that were apparently so amazing they are relegated to half a dozen lines on wikipedia
Tell me of their great achievements, their stability and how they took care of their people and how they do anything better than a capitalist democracy
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39509799]the fuck do you live?
I live in Illinois and every house has a basement.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not you can have a basement depends on how high the water table is. If you dig 10 feet and hit water you can't really have a basement unless you like muddy indoor pools.
[QUOTE=scout1;39510607]Yes yes the two that ever existed that were apparently so amazing they are relegated to half a dozen lines on wikipedia
[/QUOTE]
Well that's what happens when you get utterly buttfucked by dictators across the globe simultaneously
Are you seriously judging the quality of it based upon it's wikipedia article?
Drop the condescending attitude. No idea why you're acting like such a prick about this. You want a list of what they accomplished? Here I have a handy website for you!
[url]www.google.com[/url]
[url]www.google.ca[/url] works too.
[editline]8th February 2013[/editline]
Also if you had any idea of what you were talking about you would realize there's a lot more than 12 lines of the group on wikipedia
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain[/url]
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;39510664]Well that's what happens when you get utterly buttfucked by dictators across the globe simultaneously
Are you seriously judging the quality of it based upon it's wikipedia article?
Drop the condescending attitude. No idea why you're acting like such a prick about this. You want a list of what they accomplished? Here I have a handy website for you!
[url]www.google.com[/url]
[url]www.google.ca[/url] works too.
[editline]8th February 2013[/editline]
Also if you had any idea of what you were talking about you would realize there's a lot more than 12 lines of the group on wikipedia
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain[/url][/QUOTE]
So you cannot.
I'll tell you what they did achieve: They did kill a lot of their own people and made a lot more suffer. That is not what I call a successful government.
Anarcho-communism is a failure. Your hard-on for them comes from the fact they were destroyed by dictatorships. Just because dictators opposed them doesn't mean they were any good. Stalin was, by all accounts, a very evil man.
[QUOTE=scout1;39505500]See: 2 or 3 transient dying societies that emerged in times of war and collapsed soon after[/QUOTE]
there are tons of communes and anarchist societies just in the usa. hell, i know of one less than 50 miles from me
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39511596]there are tons of communes and anarchist societies just in the usa. hell, i know of one less than 50 miles from me[/QUOTE]
Consisting of 4 dudes and a goat?
I guess by that measure my household is a anarcho-communist society
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
by the way unless they completely ignore federal law (among other things), they don't count given they are interior products of the government and not actual governments
[QUOTE=scout1;39511732]Consisting of 4 dudes and a goat?
I guess by that measure my household is a anarcho-communist society
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
by the way unless they completely ignore federal law (among other things), they don't count given they are interior products of the government and not actual governments[/QUOTE]
legally they are not sovereign territories, however when you don't use money and minimize trade with the outside(generally to get tools), you are pretty much left alone. there is little to tax. decisions regarding the commune are left to communal members. this is of course not applicable if the commune does cultish shit(aka jonestownsy stuff).
and what size do you see a commune being "valid" to you? 50 members? 100 members? 1000 members? if there are 50 people working together and they are able to be nearly self sufficient and happy, isn't that some evidence for the idea that humans can organize society communally?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39511798]legally they are not sovereign territories, however when you don't use money and minimize trade with the outside(generally to get tools), you are pretty much left alone. there is little to tax. decisions regarding the commune are left to communal members. this is of course not applicable if the commune does cultish shit(aka jonestownsy stuff).
and what size do you see a commune being "valid" to you? 50 members? 100 members? 1000 members? if there are 50 people working together and they are able to be nearly self sufficient and happy, isn't that some evidence for the idea that humans can organize society communally?[/QUOTE]
Complete self-sufficiency
Otherwise by definition your little commune ain't doing so well when it receives the protection of the federal government
[QUOTE=scout1;39511865]Complete self-sufficiency
Otherwise by definition your little commune ain't doing so well when it receives the protection of the federal government[/QUOTE]
that's impossible without a worldwide revolution and is therefore an unfair measure with which to judge the merits of a communal society.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39511902]that's impossible without a worldwide revolution and is therefore an unfair measure with which to judge the merits of a communal society.[/QUOTE]
Then show me a commune with a civilized means of production. Not one which simply consumes and exports labor.
Been meaning to go up to the Owyhees and build a castle on one of the plateaus. Be a pretty awesome looking castle too considering the rock there is all bright rust red. Build it like the French did, 80% mortar with some nice dressed stone slabs over the mortar.
Have some Napoleons and Siege Mortars shipped down from Coeur d'Alene too. :v:
[QUOTE=scout1;39511959]Then show me a commune with a civilized means of production. Not one which simply consumes and exports labor.[/QUOTE]
you use a lot of loaded terms. "civilized" is not an objective term. what do you mean by means of production? almost all of these communes produce their own food through their own means.
[editline]8th February 2013[/editline]
i'd say simply producing what you need to not starve is a fairly good milestone considering many societies and governments(modern included) still can't seem to get it down.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39511996]you use a lot of loaded terms. "civilized" is not an objective term. what do you mean by means of production? almost all of these communes produce their own food through their own means.
[editline]8th February 2013[/editline]
i'd say simply producing what you need to not starve is a fairly good milestone considering many societies and governments(modern included) still can't seem to get it down.[/QUOTE]
no commune bigger than dunbars number is feasible
Anything can work in a small group of people who all have the same values.
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;39498893]not going to work[/QUOTE]
There's been communes of this size before. Ofcourse something on a large scale isn't possible, but a small community like this, sure. Appeared in America (most not successes.) Quite a bit during various fighting and civil wars in spain and russia/ukraine.
Not saying this is going to work, or that I am a heavy supporter of it, just saying there is examples of small, leaderless communities successfully running.
On-topic, this is a really interesting development, and I'd like to see how it turns out.
I wish [I]my[/I] childhood fantasies made the news
[QUOTE=certified;39498941]This self-sufficient town plan has one major flaw.
There is no space protected within the walls for farming. Absolute failure 0/10. Would not survive illuminati-apocalypse in.[/QUOTE]
There's loads of space inbetween the inner and outer wall.
ITT Scout1 thinks communism is anarcho communism
wtf
[editline]8th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=scout1;39511865]Complete self-sufficiency
Otherwise by definition your little commune ain't doing so well when it receives the protection of the federal government[/QUOTE]
free trade dude
What's the point of a firearms museum in a fortress designed to withstand the collapse of society?
There's tons of other buildings that you could build that would be much more useful.
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;39518527]ITT Scout1 thinks communism is anarcho communism
wtf
[/QUOTE]
Uhm no autarky is by no means only a communist ideal
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
Do you even know about the ideology you're telling me is so great
because you don't seem to particularly know or care the only examples you cited murdered their own citizens
[QUOTE=scout1;39525170]Uhm no autarky is by no means only a communist ideal
[/QUOTE]
that's not even what i said
what the hell
And yes I do know what I'm talking about. You must assume I don't because you are arrogant as hell and think you're right. Again drop the condescending attitude dude. being a prick doesn't get you gold stars sorry mate.
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
Also please explain how an ideology can be wrong? You seem dead set on the fact that quanity is better than quality
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;39525367]that's not even what i said
what the hell
And yes I do know what I'm talking about. You must assume I don't because you are arrogant as hell and think you're right. Again drop the condescending attitude dude. being a prick doesn't get you gold stars sorry mate.
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
Also please explain how an ideology can be wrong? You seem dead set on the fact that quanity is better than quality[/QUOTE]
No I'm dead set that killing your own citizens is something people would generally consider a bad idea??
Of course you keep ignoring that fact and going "OH MY GOD YOU'RE SO ARROGANT" instead of addressing the fact the only large-scale implementations of your ideology were murderous, the small-scale ones do nothing effectively, and that it's a fringe ideology quite simply because it doesn't work.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;39499153]You guys really need a firearms museum to survive the apocalypse?[/QUOTE] If it's to preserve information on how to build and maintain them, sure.
first reaction..... idaho....castle......
that thing better have solar power and a hydroponics farm underground, else theyre screwed
also even in the collapse of society, gunpowder and the chemicals to make many explosions still exist on shelves and under sinks in every household. dont think a fall of civilization would lead to mideval tech, because it wouldnt, it would be more like somalia where people could get heavily armed
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=scout1;39511865]Complete self-sufficiency
Otherwise by definition your little commune ain't doing so well when it receives the protection of the federal government[/QUOTE]
even mideval towns were not self sufficiant, as long as there have been human towns there has been trade
you cannot be self sufficiant ever, please cite an example of a 100% tradeless community? this community assuming they have some sort of hyrdroponics, could feed itself, but what about when they need the occasional part for one of the key systems involved with the infastructure? do they send out a fallout style member to find the part, no
they trade with communities around old civilization who have access to the parts but not the need for it, while they may need some of the food from the fortress town and voila trade
[QUOTE=scout1;39527927]No I'm dead set that killing your own citizens is something people would generally consider a bad idea??
Of course you keep ignoring that fact and going "OH MY GOD YOU'RE SO ARROGANT" instead of addressing the fact the only large-scale implementations of your ideology were murderous, the small-scale ones do nothing effectively, and that it's a fringe ideology quite simply because it doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
what is an ideology that hasn't been used to murder their own people before?
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
and anarcho-syndicalist/communist societies in spain didn't murder "their own people". i don't know where you're getting that from.
Facepunch mountain fortress must be erected as a rival state in the post-nuclear world.
Guys, thems be a bunch of convicted neckbeards. Do you think this will last?
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