Spain's Communist Village Is Making The Rest Of The World Look Bad - Polidicks

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;43140812]so what if a group of people dont wanna have that structure and yet have important resources your anarchists want what happens to them[/QUOTE] you're being ridiculously specific and narrow though, what does this have to do with the system at all? what happens if a group of people aren't capitalist and the USA wants their resources? it's irrelevant in the big picture

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43141242]you're being ridiculously specific and narrow though, what does this have to do with the system at all? what happens if a group of people aren't capitalist and the USA wants their resources? it's irrelevant in the big picture[/QUOTE] all i was doing was asking a question??? if a group dont pay a tax, they get penalized for it, so whats the anarchists solution for a group not wanting to be involved with them?? stop trying to intimidate me, you're being an oppressive tyrant, who are you to say my question is ridicolous? what authority do you have????

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141047][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%9308"]please tell me more about how great the bourgeoisie is at managing the economy[/URL][/QUOTE] Did you actually read that? Because when I did, I didn't get that it was 100% due to people wanting more profits. Seems to me, and to the very article that you posted, that it was a combination of things.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;43141274]all i was doing was asking a question??? if a group dont pay a tax, they get penalized for it, so whats the anarchists solution for a group not wanting to be involved with them?? stop trying to intimidate me, you're being an oppressive tyrant, who are you to say my question is ridicolous? what authority do you have????[/QUOTE] the problem is this is a vague and situational question. it depends on who the two parties are. chances are the other group needs shit the anarchists have and vice versa, so some form of mutual deal would be struck. or maybe they'd fight each other, who knows. like i said, there's no clear answer so that's why i think it's too narrow of a hypothetical.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43141321]the problem is this is a vague and situational question. it depends on who the two parties are. chances are the other group needs shit the anarchists have and vice versa, so some form of mutual deal would be struck. or maybe they'd fight each other, who knows. like i said, there's no clear answer so that's why i think it's too narrow of a hypothetical.[/QUOTE] the question is framed so no matter the answer he can post yawmen -1923414 lolwutdud - 1

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43141321]the problem is this is a vague and situational question. it depends on who the two parties are. chances are the other group needs shit the anarchists have and vice versa, so some form of mutual deal would be struck. or maybe they'd fight each other, who knows. like i said, there's no clear answer so that's why i think it's too narrow of a hypothetical.[/QUOTE] so what if some wants a mutual deal or some wants to fight? what if the decisions arent unaninmous is some authority figure going to decide what the community wants or needs?

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;43141343]so what if some wants a mutual deal or some wants to fight? what if the decisions arent unaninmous is some authority figure going to decide what the community wants or needs?[/QUOTE] i don't know either? like i said it depends on the community and its makeup of people. [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] in a capitalist society, what happens when some decisions aren't unanimous?

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43141429]i don't know either? like i said it depends on the community and its makeup of people. [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] in a capitalist society, what happens when some decisions aren't unanimous?[/QUOTE] in capitalist society, its likely someone is an authority figure like yawmwen keep saying, so the authority figure decides or the hierarchy decides whats best for good or worse idk about anarchism though, you guys are supposed to know this stuff???

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141047][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%9308"]please tell me more about how great the bourgeoisie is at managing the economy[/URL][/QUOTE] And there you go again ignoring his actual experience with Marxism first hand and instead use it a springboard for why capitalism is bad. You keep saying all these things about how capitalism is the work of the devil, yet you've failed to say why or how Marxism would be any better. There are numerous real-life examples in history where Marxism has failed, yet you ignore them because they weren't the "true Marxist society," despite the fact that they all started from that very same ideal you subscribe to, only to be perverted by human nature. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;43141486]And there you go again ignoring his actual experience with Marxism first hand and instead use it a springboard for why capitalism is bad. You keep saying all these things about how capitalism is the work of the devil, yet you've failed to say why or how Marxism would be any better. [/QUOTE] there you go again ignoring my actual experience of capitalism firsthand and instead use it a springboard for why marxism is bad. [editline]11th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=lolwutdude;43141459]in capitalist society, its likely someone is an authority figure like yawmwen keep saying, so the authority figure decides or the hierarchy decides whats best for good or worse idk about anarchism though, you guys are supposed to know this stuff???[/QUOTE] name every single possible variable in your situation including the history of both groups and i'll answer your hypothetical.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;43141459]in capitalist society, its likely someone is an authority figure like yawmwen keep saying, so the authority figure decides or the hierarchy decides whats best for good or worse idk about anarchism though, you guys are supposed to know this stuff???[/QUOTE] so what happens if the people disagree with the authority figure?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141500]there you go again ignoring my actual experience of capitalism firsthand and instead use it a springboard for why marxism is bad.[/QUOTE] You preach all this stuff about how Marxism will be the second coming of Christ, but you never say why. You're like politicians in debate - constantly mudslinging each other trying to get voters not to vote for the other, but you're not telling me why I should vote for you.

yawmwen's ideas seemed to easily be summed up as "communism is good simply because capitalism is bad".

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43141509]so what happens if the people disagree with the authority figure?[/QUOTE] idk fined or jailed at worst? why cant you answer question about the system on how it works??? are u ok

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43141534]yawmwen's ideas seemed to easily be summed up as "communism is good simply because capitalism is bad".[/QUOTE] I said it earlier in the thread: The grass is always greener on the other side.

Regardless of the legitimacy of yawmwen's arguments I just genuinely detest his holier-than-thou pretentiousness that comes into play every time a disagreement springs up

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43141534]yawmwen's ideas seemed to easily be summed up as "communism is good simply because capitalism is bad".[/QUOTE] nah communism is good because it provides an alternative to wage labor. paying someone a wage for their work is demeaning to the worker because it assumes that his actions need to have a price tag attached. it assumes that humans are passionless beasts who only move in a direction because someone holds a carrot in front of their face. it assumes that human nature is uncooperative and isolationist. communism says that none of these things are true, that people are naturally inclined to work together. capitalism is bad, so an alternative must be devised. some believe in collectivism, some believe in communism, some believe in syndicalism...but ultimately capitalism shows that some "leftist" method of economics is needed. i personally believe communism to be the most dignified answer.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141500]there you go again ignoring my actual experience of capitalism firsthand and instead use it a springboard for why marxism is bad.[/QUOTE] Because you are the one advocating for change, so the burden is on you. We don't have to prove to you why capitalism is better, because it is already in place. You have to be the one to convince us that your way is better to convince us to change. That's kinda the way this has worked forever.

[QUOTE=Clovernoodle;43141556]Regardless of the legitimacy of yawmwen's arguments I just genuinely detest his holier-than-thou pretentiousness that comes into play every time a disagreement springs up[/QUOTE] i get pretentious when people start saying dumb things like "organization implies hierarchy" or "communism and anarchism are incompatible" or "well you can't answer this weird hypothetical question obviously your system can't work". it's like people are expecting me to spoon feed the ideology.

The only reason a debate is being conducted here is because it doesn't host the rules of the proper subforum... Still have to make a point though. [IMG]http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark-old.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141599]i get pretentious when people start saying dumb things like "organization implies hierarchy" or "communism and anarchism are incompatible" or [B]"well you can't answer this weird hypothetical question obviously your system can't work"[/B]. it's like people are expecting me to spoon feed the ideology.[/QUOTE] whose saying ur system can't work?? all im doing is asking what happens when an anarchist community has a disagreement within itself about a decision,who makes the decision if nobody unanimously wants something?? [QUOTE=Clovernoodle;43141556]Regardless of the legitimacy of yawmwen's arguments I just genuinely detest his holier-than-thou pretentiousness that comes into play every time a disagreement springs up[/QUOTE] hes one of the more pitiful members in fp lol

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;43141613]whose saying ur system can't work?? all im doing is asking what happens when an anarchist community has a disagreement within itself about a decision,who makes the decision if nobody unanimously wants something??[/QUOTE] it depends on the structure of the system. you can use a simple majority vote, you can use consensus voting, you can use some form of delegation... nobody ever unanimously wants anything. however, people are generally willing to consent to an agreement when they feel like they aren't being forced. that's the point of negotiation. maybe someone consents to an action that they don't fully agree with because they know that their cooperation within the group is beneficial in other ways. [editline]11th December 2013[/editline] maybe they wholly disagree, feel the system is oppressing them as a minority, and choose to disassociate with that group and strike in protest.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141657]it depends on the structure of the system. you can use a simple majority vote, you can use consensus voting, you can use some form of delegation... nobody ever unanimously wants anything. however, people are generally willing to consent to an agreement when they feel like they aren't being forced. that's the point of negotiation. maybe someone consents to an action that they don't fully agree with because they know that their cooperation within the group is beneficial in other ways.[/QUOTE] but what if people dont wanna consent to an agreement? if they believe the negotiation is a farce and dont want to do anything with it cause they think it's not beneficial?? can the community force them to deal with it? isnt that oppression by an authority itself?

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;43141679]but what if people dont wanna consent to an agreement? if they believe the negotiation is a farce and dont want to do anything with it cause they think it's not beneficial?? can the community force them to deal with it? isnt that oppression by an authority itself?[/QUOTE] no the community can't "force them to deal with it" because the community is the people who make up the community. if nobody is willing to consent then they won't be able to take action as a collective.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141599]i get pretentious when people start saying dumb things like "organization implies hierarchy" or "communism and anarchism are incompatible" or "well you can't answer this weird hypothetical question obviously your system can't work". it's like people are expecting me to spoon feed the ideology.[/QUOTE] Except your whole ideology is purely hypothetical. It's never been put to practice according to you because any examples "[I]well they weren't TRULY this or that...[/I]"

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141692]no the community can't "force them to deal with it" because the community is the people who make up the community. if nobody is willing to consent then they won't be able to take action as a collective.[/QUOTE] so then the communities can simply kick out the undesirables then to achieve their collectivism then?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43141700]Except your whole ideology is purely hypothetical. It's never been put to practice according to you because any examples "[I]well they weren't TRULY this or that...[/I]"[/QUOTE] certain concepts have been tested to varying degrees of success, though.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141579]nah communism is good because it provides an alternative to wage labor. paying someone a wage for their work is demeaning to the worker because it assumes that his actions need to have a price tag attached. it assumes that humans are passionless beasts who only move in a direction because someone holds a carrot in front of their face. it assumes that human nature is uncooperative and isolationist. communism says that none of these things are true, that people are naturally inclined to work together. capitalism is bad, so an alternative must be devised. some believe in collectivism, some believe in communism, some believe in syndicalism...but ultimately capitalism shows that some "leftist" method of economics is needed. i personally believe communism to be the most dignified answer.[/QUOTE] I don't see it as them giving me money for my labor so much as me selling my labor to them. [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;43141708]certain concepts have been tested to varying degrees of success, though.[/QUOTE] Such as? Even so, having [I]certain[/I] concepts been tested doesn't guarantee the ideology as a whole will work or work with these certain concepts put together.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;43141704]so then the communities can simply kick out the undesirables then to achieve their collectivism then?[/QUOTE] that would be unlikely since such an imposition of force upon a minority group would likely lead to a lot of resistance from both the minority and the majority. anarchism is about the resistance to authority and oppression. it cannot exist unless people are skeptical of all forms of authority.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43141692]no the community can't "force them to deal with it" because the community is the people who make up the community. if nobody is willing to consent then they won't be able to take action as a collective.[/QUOTE] And so nothing gets done