Spain's Communist Village Is Making The Rest Of The World Look Bad - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Swilly;43154602]Your life is still in danger, getting punched in the face repeatedly can cause brain damage that later down the road can end your life. You are defending your survival on the planet.[/QUOTE] no, it's not lol. being punched in the face is not a life-threatening situation.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43154559]basically you guys were right i want an anarchist society so i can be a murderer rapist and arsonist. nah but what i mean is, to go against society as it is results in you being thrown in jail or killed, if i don't agree with the things my government does and refuse to pay taxes towards these things, i will be imprisoned, if i don't agree with my governments laws and go against them i will be imprisoned. basically you can't be actually free unless you're willing to live as a hermit in the woods or some shit because we don't have a voluntary society, either be apart of it or suffer[/QUOTE] That is the cost of living in a society that gives you so many things for merely living in it. If you get payed in the money that has no value except for what those around you give it, you are using something that is meaningless in and of it self to get something that has direct meaning, with a portion of what you received going towards the original entity that created it and the person you are exchanging it with. If you refuse to use that money, you resort to a barter system that has little regulation behind it. You don't pay taxes unless you are the recipient of those funds. If you want to live in a society that is relatively safe, you have to pay your due to those that make it that way.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43154611]and that gets into another part of violence. that you should only use the amount of violence necessary to end violence against yourself or another person. self-defense is not self-defense if you are "punishing" someone, it is excessive force.[/QUOTE] But what if its oppressing my family and my friends because that other family is oppressing me and on the flip side they think we're oppressing them.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43154388]Oh okay, so if I decide I'm not going to participate in your voluntary society, I can go on a murder-arson spree and kill the people and burn down their houses and nobody will lift a finger to stop me. Because if they do, then they are enforcing their will on me and my participation in this society is no longer optional. And that's bad, because in anarchy I should be able to do whatever I want whenever I want because there are no laws or criminals. Right?[/QUOTE] honestly at this point you're just being deliberately obtuse so you can justify acting snide. this has been addressed multiple times.

[QUOTE=Swilly;43154620]Its actually a question I was posed in International Politics during my first year of Uni. Professor asked me whether it was force or oppression if I challenged someone who I thought was oppressing me who thought I was oppressing them.[/QUOTE] it would probably be viewed as force on both sides. in the case of two people mutually feeling oppressed, a neutral party might need to mediate the conflict(hence mediation).

[QUOTE=Swilly;43154620]Its actually a question I was posed in International Politics during my first year of Uni. Professor asked me whether it was force or oppression if I challenged someone who I thought was oppressing me who thought I was oppressing them.[/QUOTE] well as you've been saying, life is not black and white, so i really think it would depend on the situation. alot of people here seem to think that stopping people from murdering and raping and arsoning counts as oppression

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43154621]no, it's not lol. being punched in the face is not a life-threatening situation.[/QUOTE] Because getting punched repeatedly in the face with your head getting put into concrete over and over again totally won't cause issues. You put a bare mininmal hypothetical situation for me to respond to so I filled in the gaps.

[QUOTE=deadoon;43154627]That is the cost of living in a society that gives you so many things for merely living in it. If you get payed in the money that has no value except for what those around you give it, you are using something that is meaningless in and of it self to get something that has direct meaning, with a portion of what you received going towards the original entity that created it and the person you are exchanging it with. If you refuse to use that money, you resort to a barter system that has little regulation behind it. You don't pay taxes unless you are the recipient of those funds. If you want to live in a society that is relatively safe, you have to pay your due to those that make it that way.[/QUOTE] it's a cost that you're not allowed to refuse to pay

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43154638]well as you've been saying, life is not black and white, so i really think it would depend on the situation. alot of people here seem to think that stopping people from murdering and raping and arsoning counts as oppression[/QUOTE] The problem is we're over simplfying humans and humanity as a whole.

[QUOTE=Swilly;43154643]Because getting punched repeatedly in the face with your head getting put into concrete over and over again totally won't cause issues. You put a bare mininmal hypothetical situation for me to respond to so I filled in the gaps.[/QUOTE] ok in this case there is no risk of death. is it alright to use violence to end violence that you are being subjected to?

[QUOTE=Swilly;43154643]Because getting punched repeatedly in the face with your head getting put into concrete over and over again totally won't cause issues. You put a bare mininmal hypothetical situation for me to respond to so I filled in the gaps.[/QUOTE] wtf this isn't going to become a zimmerman debate is it

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43154652]ok in this case there is no risk of death. is it alright to use violence to end violence that you are being subjected to?[/QUOTE] Any form of violence can lead to a bodily injury that can lead to your death. Whether it be a quick death due to immediate trauma or a slow painful death due to prolonged complications or even economic kill.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43154621]no, it's not lol. being punched in the face is not a life-threatening situation.[/QUOTE] The bones in your nostril can puncture your brain and lead to your death later [url]http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/05/us/utah-soccer-death/[/url] [url]https://www.google.com/search?q=man+dies+after+being+punched+in+face[/url]

Sorry but as crazy as yawmwen is, he has a good point about the use of force. But I stand on the position of leading by example and degrading yourself to the use of violence will shatter any integrity you are trying to show or gain. A society that relies on violence to enforce laws is a seriously fundamentally flawed one, but that's what laws are after all. Legislating morality is what humans have been attempting for centuries and what has it given us? Liars, schizophrenics, political ills, and countless other forms of psychological damage.

[QUOTE=deadoon;43154627]That is the cost of living in a society that gives you so many things for merely living in it. If you get payed in the money that has no value except for what those around you give it, you are using something that is meaningless in and of it self to get something that has direct meaning, with a portion of what you received going towards the original entity that created it and the person you are exchanging it with. If you refuse to use that money, you resort to a barter system that has little regulation behind it. You don't pay taxes unless you are the recipient of those funds. If you want to live in a society that is relatively safe, you have to pay your due to those that make it that way.[/QUOTE] i signed no "social contract". i never agreed to any of the services or institutions the state provides. in fact, i find many to be illegitimate. i am not allowed to choose what institutions i subject myself to, i am a subject to these institutions because i was born here and do not have the resources to move away.

This concept of 'oppression' and how you're trying to distinguish it from conventional notions of crime is absurd. Crime identifies anti-social behavior, activities which damage the society. Oppression, or the unjust use of force, is acts that are damaging to society. Whether you call it 'enforcing punishment for breaking the law' or 'using force to prevent oppression', either way you're imposing your society's collective will on someone else because they're causing harm to your people. Either way an individual's right to autonomy is being denied, by force, because his actions are perceived as detrimental to the group, whether he wants to participate in the group or not. You call it voluntary- but it's not voluntary if you get punished for breaking its rules. You call it lawless- but clearly the community, whether they specify laws or not, will punish specific behaviors that are damaging to the group. And you say there are no power structures, but even in the concept of democracy we have a power structure that the people collectively decide is more important than their personal beliefs. The minority is deprived of decision-making power, and if they decide to opt out are in danger of conflicting with the rest of the society over limited resources. And then, once again, it's no longer voluntary. These are classic political and social structures given a coat of paint and a new name.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43154654]wtf this isn't going to become a zimmerman debate is it[/QUOTE] If you're getting punched in the face over and over, pretty sure you're on the ground and since most first world humans live in cities, it safe to assume concrete is involved.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43154675]i signed no "social contract". i never agreed to any of the services or institutions the state provides. in fact, i find many to be illegitimate. i am not allowed to choose what institutions i subject myself to, i am a subject to these institutions because i was born here and do not have the resources to move away.[/QUOTE] So go off in the woods where nobody will stumble across you and leave no forwarding address. It's not exactly difficult.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43154690]So go off in the woods where nobody will stumble across you and leave no forwarding address. It's not exactly difficult.[/QUOTE] see? live in our society or suffer [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] LIVE OUR WAY OR GO LIVE IN THE WOODS [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] but of course you're going to equate not letting people rape murder and arson to 'live our way or else' aren't you?

[QUOTE=Swilly;43154665]Any form of violence can lead to a bodily injury that can lead to your death. Whether it be a quick death due to immediate trauma or a slow painful death due to prolonged complications or even economic kill.[/QUOTE] i think you are just being difficult now. either way, you agree that violence is morally justified when used to end violence. so then you get into the legal system, which is a series of [b]threats[/b] made against a person. if you do not follow the law, whether the law is moral or not, you run the risk of being subjected to force. why would it not be ok to dismantle(through force, if necessary) the institutions that threaten you with violence on a daily basis?

[QUOTE=ahmedsalaam69;43154670]A society that relies on violence to enforce laws is a seriously fundamentally flawed one, but that's what laws are after all. [/QUOTE] Even yawmwen and lachzor are suggesting violence to combat oppression (read: enforce unwritten laws). If someone else means to unjustly impose his will on you with force, there aren't any options other than the use of force in return.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43154693]see? live in our society or suffer [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] LIVE OUR WAY OR GO LIVE IN THE WOODS[/QUOTE] wow thats not what he said at all

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43154675]i signed no "social contract". i never agreed to any of the services or institutions the state provides. in fact, i find many to be illegitimate. i am not allowed to choose what institutions i subject myself to, i am a subject to these institutions because i was born here and do not have the resources to move away.[/QUOTE] Your contract into this society was signed by your parents, blame them for your birth. If you don't like their terms maybe you can find a way to deal with them, or move out. It is your goal in life to be happy, work towards it find those like you and try and move on from this society.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43154677]Crime identifies anti-social behavior[/QUOTE] stop right there. no it doesn't. crime is any activity that the state does not want you to participate in. in some cases, it is meant to restrict an anti-social act(murder, for example), and others, it is meant simply as a means of social control(drug prohibition, the united states laws against free protest, etc.)

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43154693]see? live in our society or suffer [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] LIVE OUR WAY OR GO LIVE IN THE WOODS [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] but of course you're going to equate not letting people rape murder and arson to 'live our way or else' aren't you?[/QUOTE] Your society is identifying behaviors that it perceives as damaging and punishes people who transgress, with the only option being to either conform or leave altogether. How is it any different?

[QUOTE=catbarf;43154677]This concept of 'oppression' and how you're trying to distinguish it from conventional notions of crime is absurd. Crime identifies anti-social behavior, activities which damage the society. Oppression, or the unjust use of force, is acts that are damaging to society. Whether you call it 'enforcing punishment for breaking the law' or 'using force to prevent oppression', either way you're imposing your society's collective will on someone else because they're causing harm to your people. Either way an individual's right to autonomy is being denied, by force, because his actions are perceived as detrimental to the group, whether he wants to participate in the group or not. You call it voluntary- but it's not voluntary if you get punished for breaking its rules. You call it lawless- but clearly the community, whether they specify laws or not, will punish specific behaviors that are damaging to the group. And you say there are no power structures, but even in the concept of democracy we have a power structure that the people collectively decide is more important than their personal beliefs. The minority is deprived of decision-making power, and if they decide to opt out are in danger of conflicting with the rest of the society over limited resources. And then, once again, it's no longer voluntary. These are classic political and social structures given a coat of paint and a new name.[/QUOTE] sorry but you're either a complete idiot or trolling if you think stopping someone who's causing immediate harm (rape/murder) is of equal "oppression" as an outside government authority imposing questionable laws and institutions on you.

[QUOTE=snapshot32;43154724]wow thats not what he said at all[/QUOTE] he literally said to go live in the woods

you guys in here are [I]so fucking mad.[/I] specifically mom's little anarchist yawmwen. Take a breather fellas.

[QUOTE=catbarf;43154732]Your society is identifying behaviors that it perceives as damaging and punishes people who transgress, with the only option being to either conform or leave altogether. How is it any different?[/QUOTE] it is different. this is rape murder and arson we're talking about

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43154707]i think you are just being difficult now. either way, you agree that violence is morally justified when used to end violence. so then you get into the legal system, which is a series of [b]threats[/b] made against a person. if you do not follow the law, whether the law is moral or not, you run the risk of being subjected to force. why would it not be ok to dismantle(through force, if necessary) the institutions that threaten you with violence on a daily basis?[/QUOTE] And your system doesn't have the threat of "conform to the publics will or face the consequences"?