Spain's Communist Village Is Making The Rest Of The World Look Bad - Polidicks

[QUOTE=JustExtreme;43134155]So because two month olds display some inkling of self-preservation human nature must be inherently capitalistic? Monkeys can form egalitarian commune-like groups. We are obviously it bit further down the line than them when it comes to sociopathic selfish behaviour on a mass scale but I think that human nature is what we collaboratively make it really...[/QUOTE] The difference between monkeys and humans is that monkeys tend to be in small social groups. There are over 7 billion humans interacting, and while admirable, egalitarian methods of social organisation along those lines is logistically unfeasible. The video also doesn't mention that baboons can select who gets to join the troop or not and that a 1:2 ratio of males to females is unsustainable.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43135903]all these things require decentralization. communism only works in a highly decentralized system because only local communities know how to allocate resources and cooperate effectively. it's the same sorta reasoning behind "state's rights".[/QUOTE] So what you're saying is that communism doesn't work on a national scale and you want us to go back to living in tribes?

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;43136273]So what you're saying is that communism doesn't work on a national scale and you want us to go back to living in tribes?[/QUOTE] "tribe" is a racist and colonialist term so no.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136511]"tribe" is a racist and colonialist term so no.[/QUOTE] Way to dodge the question

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;43136524]Way to dodge the question[/QUOTE] well you already live in a tribe so it's not really dodging the question. i bet you are having a big clan feast on christmas too. [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] your silly tribal customs are so primitive.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136511]"tribe" is a racist and colonialist term so no.[/QUOTE] Tribes nowadays usually refer to social groupings existing before the development of states.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136561]well you already live in a tribe so it's not really dodging the question. i bet you are having a big clan feast on christmas too. [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] your silly tribal customs are so primitive.[/QUOTE] This is what we call a 'bait and switch', because it's pretty obvious that when you previously suggested people live in decentralized communities you weren't referring to what we think of today as familial groups. Unless you're saying communism only works when your entire society is just your extended family, in which case it's right back to subsistence farming for everyone.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43136598]Tribes nowadays usually refer to social groupings existing before the development of states.[/QUOTE] no it doesn't, it refers to brown people who chuck spears and dance naked around bonfires. it has no technical meaning, just a racist meaning. [QUOTE=catbarf;43136599]This is what we call a 'bait and switch', because it's pretty obvious that when you previously suggested people live in decentralized communities you weren't referring to what we think of today as familial groups. Unless you're saying communism only works when your entire society is just your extended family, in which case it's right back to subsistence farming for everyone.[/QUOTE] yea but killerjaguar used racist terms to try and argue against me so w/e it's ok when the colonialist uses bait and switch but not me. [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;43136628]What? The word tribe has existed far longer than colonialism, it dates back to Roman times, it literally just means a group of smallish group of people working & living together, IE a group, just because racists used it the wrong way during the height of colonialism doesn't mean that's the words only meaning.[/QUOTE] if you don't know what the word "tribe" implies and why it was an incredibly idiotic term to use in relation to communism then idk what to tell you bud.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136631]yea but killerjaguar used racist terms to try and argue against me so w/e it's ok when the colonialist uses bait and switch but not me.[/QUOTE] So instead of actually answering the question you're just going to refuse on account of an entirely non-critical piece of language that could just as well be replaced with 'pre-industrialization agrarian communities' and not change the meaning one iota?

[QUOTE=catbarf;43136657]So instead of actually answering the question you're just going to refuse on account of an entirely non-critical piece of language that could just as well be replaced with 'agrarian communities' and not change the meaning one iota?[/QUOTE] because it does change the meaning. he said that we will be "living in tribes" which implies that communism is a "step backwards" towards "primitive living". that's not useful, that is outright dishonest. no i believe communism works best under federated worker councils and community councils, not tribes.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43135903]all these things require decentralization. communism only works in a highly decentralized system because only local communities know how to allocate resources and cooperate effectively. it's the same sorta reasoning behind "state's rights".[/QUOTE] So basically a Marxist confederacy? What if one commune in the confederacy starts to slump in their work? Are the other communes expected to support them? Will there be a standing army? Who organizes that? And what do you do with people who refuse to cooperate? What about criminals? Will every commune have an equal standard of living, or will some be inherently nicer than others? Who does the work nobody wants to do? Do you force people to do it?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136631]no it doesn't, it refers to brown people who chuck spears and dance naked around bonfires. it has no technical meaning, just a racist meaning.[/QUOTE] Well anthropologists use "segmentary society" to mean the same thing. Therefore we all now know what it should have been: [quote]So what you're saying is that communism doesn't work on a national scale and you want us to go back to living in segmentary societies?[/quote]

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;43136798]Will there be a standing army?[/quote] no [quote]And what do you do with people who refuse to cooperate?[/quote] nothing [quote]What about criminals?[/quote] there are no criminals in a society without laws [quote]Will every commune have an equal standard of living, or will some be inherently nicer than others?[/quote] you can't enforce any equal standard. since everything is held in common in a community the standard of living will be pretty much equal. everything cannot be "held in common" worldwide, though. [quote]Who does the work nobody wants to do? Do you force people to do it?[/QUOTE] if no one is willing to do it then it won't get done. you can try and convince people to do something for the betterment of the community but ultimately it cannot be forced.

I think the problem would be more on how to implement this on larger scale and not so much the idea itself. I mean: you could try turning as much as possible in a near-perfect place buuut someone could come from the outside and try to conquer the place so some kind of defensive measures would be required. Difficult but not impossible.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43136841]Well anthropologists use "segmentary society" to mean the same thing. Therefore we all now know what it should have been:[/QUOTE] so he should have used that term instead of trying to use racist or colonialist terms to imply something inherently negative about any sort of decentralized society.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136893]so he should have used that term instead of trying to use racist or colonialist terms to imply something inherently negative about any sort of decentralized society.[/QUOTE] [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2013-12-10_20-23-47.png[/img] Ktnx.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136893]so he should have used that term instead of trying to use racist or colonialist terms to imply something inherently negative about any sort of decentralized society.[/QUOTE] Tribe is shorter and more people know it. When people say tribe, you think of a group of people with a bunch of tents and a dead mammoth nearby. Segmentary society is a better term but it's not a common one to me and most other people.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;43136914][img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5483751/Photos/2013-12-10_20-23-47.png[/img] Ktnx.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-19-spring-2001/feature/trouble-tribe[/url] "The general sense of tribe as most people understand it is associated with primitiveness. To be in a tribal state is to live in an uncomplicated, traditional condition. "

While its interesting, it becomes difficult for small groups to stay viable as time progresses, especially considering generations. The greatest example would be the Amish, who have two major settelments, Lancaster County PA and one in Ohio. Because of the issue of inbreeding, they now have to constantly swap family members to prevent birth defects, but this is only a band aid fix.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136944][url]http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-19-spring-2001/feature/trouble-tribe[/url] "The general sense of tribe as most people understand it is associated with primitiveness. To be in a tribal state is to live in an uncomplicated, traditional condition. "[/QUOTE] That has no racist connotations at all, and is pretty much what you're suggesting we do.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;43136985]That has no racist connotations at all, and is pretty much what you're suggesting we do.[/QUOTE] i never suggested that and read the article [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] and yea there are racial connotations.

Tribe is just as racist as the use of Barbarian, its origins were created to demean and look down on smaller or stranger soceities.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43136862]no nothing there are no criminals in a society without laws you can't enforce any equal standard. since everything is held in common in a community the standard of living will be pretty much equal. everything cannot be "held in common" worldwide, though. if no one is willing to do it then it won't get done. you can try and convince people to do something for the betterment of the community but ultimately it cannot be forced.[/QUOTE] So, we can all look forward to living in a society where you're in constant fear of being hurt or murdered without repercussions because someone doesn't like you, people can simply choose not to work and count on others picking up the slack to cater for them, actions against the community have no repercussions (someone just broke your farming equipment for fun, or set fire to the crops? Too bad!), rape is probably somewhere between 'fact of life' and 'pastime', and the whole house of cards will collapse the instant somebody decides that with no standing army or law enforcement there's absolutely nothing to stop them from enforcing their will by force. Sounds like a real utopia!

[QUOTE=catbarf;43137041]So, we can all look forward to living in a society where you're in constant fear of being hurt or murdered without repercussions because someone doesn't like you, people can simply choose not to work and count on others picking up the slack to cater for them, actions against the community have no repercussions (someone just broke your farming equipment for fun, or set fire to the crops? Too bad!), rape is probably somewhere between 'fact of life' and 'pastime', and the whole house of cards will collapse the instant somebody decides that with no standing army or law enforcement there's absolutely nothing to stop them from enforcing their will by force. Sounds like a real utopia![/QUOTE] these are problems created by capitalism and hierarchy. communism abolishes these things.

Wow, you're even more detached from reality than I thought. [QUOTE=yawmwen;43136862]no[/QUOTE] Enjoy being conquered and enslaved by a stronger tribe. [QUOTE=yawmwen;43136862]nothing[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=yawmwen;43136862]if no one is willing to do it then it won't get done. you can try and convince people to do something for the betterment of the community but ultimately it cannot be forced.[/QUOTE] Enjoy not having a society since no one wants to cooperate in favor of pursuing self-interests. [QUOTE=yawmwen;43136862]there are no criminals in a society without laws[/QUOTE] If we legalize murder, we will have no more murderers. [QUOTE=yawmwen;43136862]you can't enforce any equal standard. since everything is held in common in a community the standard of living will be pretty much equal. everything cannot be "held in common" worldwide, though.[/QUOTE] And now you're going against the fundamental belief of communism.

more specifically, intersectional communism that incorporates feminism, anti-racism, anti-colonialism, and anti-subjugation movements.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43137081]more specifically, intersectional communism that incorporates feminism, anti-racism, anti-colonialism, and anti-subjugation movements.[/QUOTE] So, pipe dream?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43137058]these are problems created by capitalism and hierarchy. communism abolishes these things.[/QUOTE] Oh yes, people enforcing their will by force is the fault of capitalism and hierarchy. Capitalism and hierarchy also produce rapists, murderers, and general disagreement. People only ever have conflict because of capitalism. People always get along 100% until you bring capitalism into the mix. Societies never had a need for punishment, or resolving disagreements between people, or defense against common enemies, until capitalism and hierarchies formed. I bet capitalism kicks dogs for fun too and is responsible for the bubonic plague.

[QUOTE=Swilly;43137104]So, pipe dream?[/QUOTE] the anarchist movement in general is trying to synthesize these ideas into a greater movement already. there is already the popular motto "there is no anarchism without feminism".

[QUOTE=yawmwen;43137081]more specifically, intersectional communism that incorporates feminism, anti-racism, anti-colonialism, and anti-subjugation movements.[/QUOTE]So basically if we create a scenario with very, very specific and fictional circumstances then maybe it could almost work for a time. IE: A perfect world scenario. [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;43137120]the anarchist movement in general is trying to synthesize these ideas into a greater movement already. there is already the popular motto "there is no anarchism without feminism".[/QUOTE]I think you just made that up. [editline]10th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=catbarf;43137115]Oh yes, people enforcing their will by force is the fault of capitalism and hierarchy. Capitalism and hierarchy also produce rapists, murderers, and general disagreement. People only ever have conflict because of capitalism. People always get along 100% until you bring capitalism into the mix. Societies never had a need for punishment, or resolving disagreements between people, or defense against common enemies, until capitalism and hierarchies formed. I bet capitalism kicks dogs for fun too and is responsible for the bubonic plague.[/QUOTE]This is someone who believes police are the cause of crimes.