25,000th Syrian Refugee lands in Canada - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49832413][url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/26/some-syrian-refugees-in-canada-already-want-to-return-to-the-middle-east/[/url] Its a statement on whether or not these people are refugees. A refugee demanding to be sent back to a warzone/overcrowded and strained country? Seems less than desperate. Good explanation.[/QUOTE]"Some" you are using minority cases to back up your opinion on many refugees

I seriously wish people would stop trying to use "Oh were not dealing with the homeless so we shouldn't accept any refugees." It's such a bullshit argument because A. We are caring for the homeless, ever heard of homeless shelters or welfare? and B. EVERY FUCKING COUNTRY HAS HOMELESS PEOPLE. You can bet that Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and other countries certainly have homeless people. Yet, they're accepting far more refugees then we are. How is that fair considering our countries are far richer and thus much more equipped to pay for the refugees then them?

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832429]I seriously wish people would stop trying to use "Oh were not dealing with the homeless so we shouldn't accept any refugees." It's such a bullshit argument because A. We are caring for the homeless, ever heard of homeless shelters or welfare? and B. EVERY FUCKING COUNTRY HAS HOMELESS PEOPLE. You can bet that Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and other countries certainly have homeless people. Yet, they're accepting far more refugees then we are. How is that fair considering our countries are far richer and thus much more equipped to pay for the refugees then them?[/QUOTE] Hey, I really wish you wouldn't put fucking words in my mouth. But you and everyone else who ever seems to want to disagree with me, can't do so without putting words in my mouth. Every fucking time. Never, ever, have I said "Don't accept refugee's". Nor, have I even implied it. yes, and homeless shelters at least in my city are massively underfunded and we're expecting to see as many refugees as homeless, but we will still be underfunding the homeless. We have not had acceptable mental care for them for 25 plus years and we trashed the mental health care system they had in order to save money all those years ago and we're [B]still[/B] suffering from the problems of that and it's not going to go away until those homeless people have lived their entire lives and died because we really aren't doing anything about it. Help the refugees. Please do. Also, please help the homeless more.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832436]Hey, I really wish you wouldn't put fucking words in my mouth. But you and everyone else who ever seems to want to disagree with me, can't do so without putting words in my mouth. Every fucking time.[/QUOTE] Besides the fact that I didn't personally attack you, but rather attacked the idiotic "homeless" argument as a whole, what words did I put in your mouth?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49832372] I am actually curious, what are the actual benefits? Do you know as a Canadian yourself what benefits you get or will get as a country for taking in 25,000 refugees, especially looking at the entire refugee situation all over?[/QUOTE] Why does it NEED to have a tangible benefit? Why can't we just be doing it because it's THE DECENT thing to do? Isn't that what people do for people in need? Obviously I personally benefit nothing from these refugees but that doesn't mean I'd prefer to leave them to risk their lives in a war torn country. I feel much better giving them the opportunity at a better life here in Canada.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49832372] I am actually curious, what are the actual benefits? Do you know as a Canadian yourself what benefits you get or will get as a country for taking in 25,000 refugees, especially looking at the entire refugee situation all over?[/QUOTE] Do you go up to people donating to charity and ask them what benefits they themselves will get from it? Helping people in need is a net good regardless of whether you personally profit from it.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49832372]Or they have to spend more resources helping a group of people get into livable situations. They will turn places into refugee centers, which could have been more homeless/veteran centers, or something else that helps them or your people. You know the exact thing they try with homeless and veterans. That moneys coming from somewhere. It being spent on a refugee problem they didnt have to take does take away money from that, and it being so closely related to what they money would go towards(as in helping downtrodden people into livable situations) a pretty valid point. Obviously it doesnt cease to exist, dont know why you say that? But money spent on refugees is money spent on something that could have helped the country more directly, and the fact Canada has absolutely 0 fault for the middle east or the refugees situation, I dont see why they 100% should be taking in refugees. I am actually curious, what are the actual benefits? Do you know as a Canadian yourself what benefits you get or will get as a country for taking in 25,000 refugees, especially looking at the entire refugee situation all over?[/QUOTE] Which law states that the money spent for refugees has to come frome homeless programes? Again. Most people in Canada are homeless because conservative neoliberal buisiness laws(as stupid as it sounds) increased the gap between poor and rich, not because the state doesn't have enough money to spend on the homeless. Where were you complaining about the homeless when Canada spent 9 billion on the Afghanistan war alone? Yes that's right, stupid question and argument because that is not how budgets work.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832436]Hey, I really wish you wouldn't put fucking words in my mouth. But you and everyone else who ever seems to want to disagree with me, can't do so without putting words in my mouth. Every fucking time.[/QUOTE] that doesnt seem to be a reply directly at you. but cool story

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832429]I seriously wish people would stop trying to use "Oh were not dealing with the homeless so we shouldn't accept any refugees." It's such a bullshit argument because A. We are caring for the homeless, ever heard of homeless shelters or welfare? and B. EVERY FUCKING COUNTRY HAS HOMELESS PEOPLE. You can bet that Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and other countries certainly have homeless people. Yet, they're accepting far more refugees then we are. How is that fair considering our countries are far richer and thus much more equipped to pay for the refugees then them?[/QUOTE] No one saying stuff about homeless or veterans have forgotten the fact countries already have programs for them. Its the fact its such a big problem still and when you see a country go into overdrive to HELP a group of random people from a country very far away for something you didnt do. Vs Not doing enough over all the other years. Look at all those European countries turning shit into refugee centers. Isnt Sweden turning a fucking cruise boat into one? [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/12162814/Sweden-turns-to-Caribbean-cruise-ship-to-house-refugees.html[/url] Wheres that type of action for the veterans and homeless? And thats just 1 example of how fast some of these countries were/are ready to get refugees situated vs their own people.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832449]Besides the fact that I didn't personally attack you, but rather attacked the idiotic "homeless" argument as a whole, what words did I put in your mouth?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]"Oh were not dealing with the homeless so we shouldn't accept any refugees.[/QUOTE] How about these ones were you attempt to summarize the argument, but fail to do so because subtlety is hard? [editline]28th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=KillRay;49832457]that doesnt seem to be a reply directly at you. but cool story[/QUOTE] Oh so being one of the only 3 posters in this thread talking about it means it's clearly not directed at me or anyone else, right? it's just a random statement unconnected to the posts in this thread? Or is it about the posters in this thread talking about those arguments? But cool story!

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49832459]No one saying stuff about homeless or veterans have forgotten the fact countries already have programs for them. Its the fact its such a big problem still and when you see a country go into overdrive to HELP a group of random people from a country very far away for something you didnt do. Vs Not doing enough over all the other years. Look at all those European countries turning shit into refugee centers. Isnt Sweden turning a fucking cruise boat into one? [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/12162814/Sweden-turns-to-Caribbean-cruise-ship-to-house-refugees.html[/url] Wheres that type of action for the veterans and homeless? And thats just 1 example of how fast some of these countries were/are ready to get refugees situated vs their own people.[/QUOTE] You do realize that the homeless issue has been around for a long time right? That means we've had a long time to implement programs, such as homeless shelters and otherwise. The only reason countries are rapidly trying to help the refugee issue is because the refugee issue is rapidly becoming a thing. It's not as if the governments of countries just forgot about homeless people.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832429]I seriously wish people would stop trying to use "Oh were not dealing with the homeless so we shouldn't accept any refugees." It's such a bullshit argument because A. We are caring for the homeless, ever heard of homeless shelters or welfare? and B. EVERY FUCKING COUNTRY HAS HOMELESS PEOPLE. You can bet that Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and other countries certainly have homeless people. Yet, they're accepting far more refugees then we are. How is that fair considering our countries are far richer and thus much more equipped to pay for the refugees then them? Seriously sometimes it's as if people put no thought into this argument and are just trying to use it as an excuse to be anti-refugee.[/QUOTE] By UN law, they stop being refugees when they go from Turkey into Europa, since Turkey is a safe country. The people who arrive in Greece on those boats are technically economical migrants from that point onwards. Sure, the European people want to help, but it is rather telling that most of those so-called refugees, or should I rather say, economical migrants, go for the countries with the biggest welfare pay-outs while misbehaving badly in the Eastern European countries they travel through. And even when they are in the countries that pay those relatively high welfare payouts, they still tend to misbehave and commit crime at astounding rates compared to refugees from other wars in the past.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832418]So in your mind public attention can be applied equally and fairly across all sorts of different groups even though the news and other media channels don't bother following the homeless problem because people by and large don't care about the issue in comparison to people fleeing a war torn country? But of course, Killuah, there's no reason for anyone to look at the problems of the nation and have anything to say about it. Canadians have a limited amount of tax money. Budgets do not have the ability to fund everything. Neither do peoples attention spans. Someone gets ignored. Someone gets shafted. You can think whatever you want about me, but I do not think it's wrong for me to ask questions about why the homeless community gets ignored so routinely in our nation.[/QUOTE] I am not saying that noone should look at other problems. Who's putting words in other peoples mouths here? I just don't get why you think refugees, people in need, are the thing that tips off the budget for the government when there is literally hundreds of other things that are actually WORSENING conditions for everyone, like wars, 5 Eyes and so on and so on.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832476]You do realize that the homeless issue has been around for a long time right? That means we've had a long time to implement programs, such as homeless shelters and otherwise. The only reason countries are rapidly trying to help the refugee issue is because the refugee issue is rapidly becoming a thing. It's not as if the governments of countries just forgot about homeless people.[/QUOTE] Oh right yeah I forgot you're intimately acquinted with the specifics of my city(What I'm always talking about when I refer to the homeless problem) so you're no doubt fully aware of why our homeless problem is getting worse, right?

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49832413] I'm right wing? I'd think my history would indicate otherwise.[/QUOTE] Don't invite me to look at your post history to prove your liberalness when the current first page of it contains advertising for Milo Yiannopoulos' Steam curation page, claims that hate crimes are racist and never applied to crimes against white people (which was quickly proven wrong), [i]this thread[/i], [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1507014]defending this video[/url], [quote]Remember Bahar Mustafa? "Kill all white people" diversity officer. The far left has gone mad.[/quote], [quote]I can see a sizable chunk of Bernie supporters not ever voting for Hilary and even siding with Trump.[/quote], and [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1508060&p=49827912&viewfull=1#post49827912]an inference that anyone who would vote for Hillary over Trump is doing it solely because she's female.[/url] Thank you for telling me to take a look I have absolute certainty that you are liberal now

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832468]How about these ones were you attempt to summarize the argument, but fail to do so because subtlety is hard? [editline]28th February 2016[/editline] Oh so being one of the only 3 posters in this thread talking about it means it's clearly not directed at me or anyone else, right? it's just a random statement unconnected to the posts in this thread? Or is it about the posters in this thread talking about those arguments? But cool story![/QUOTE] What the fuck are you even going on about? There's nothing wrong with that summation except that I could have been a little less sarcastic about it. After all, all you've said is basically "We have a homeless problem so we shouldn't accept refugees" Oh and just because you're only one of three people in the thread doesn't mean I was personally attacking you. I'm talking about in general the entire "homeless" argument because I've seen it argued before by other people. You're not the only person in the world who does one thing you know?

[QUOTE=Jordax;49832480]By UN law, they stop being refugees when they go from Turkey into Europa, since Turkey is a safe country. The people who arrive in Greece on those boats are technically economical migrants from that point onwards. Sure, the European people want to help, but it is rather telling that most of those so-called refugees, or should I rather say, economical migrants, go for the countries with the biggest welfare pay-outs while misbehaving badly in the Eastern European countries they travel through. And even when they are in the countries that pay those relatively high welfare payouts, they still tend to misbehave and commit crime at astounding rates compared to refugees from other wars in the past.[/QUOTE]...what UN law? are you talking about Dublin Regulation (eu law??) ? [IMG]http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/86B2/production/_88328443_origins_asylum_applicants_624gr.png[/IMG] which of these are the economic migrants?

[QUOTE=Jordax;49832480]By UN law, they stop being refugees when they go from Turkey into Europa, since Turkey is a safe country. The people who arrive in Greece on those boats are technically economical migrants from that point onwards. Sure, the European people want to help, but it is rather telling that most of those so-called refugees, or should I rather say, economical migrants, go for the countries with the biggest welfare pay-outs while misbehaving badly in the Eastern European countries they travel through. And even when they are in the countries that pay those relatively high welfare payouts, they still tend to misbehave and commit crime at astounding rates compared to refugees from other wars in the past.[/QUOTE] It's Europe. We are speaking English here. Europa is a moon of Jupiter in the English language.

[QUOTE=Killuah;49832489]I am not saying that noone should look at other problems. Who's putting worth in other peoples mouth here? I just don't get why you think refugees, people in need, are the thing that tips off the budget for the government when there is literally hundreds of other things that are actually WORSENING conditions for everyone, like wars, 5 Eyes and so on and so on.[/QUOTE] It's one of the many things. Again, can you point out where i said "Theyre the thing that tips off the budget" or anything to that effect at all? No, they're one of the things, and as I keep reiterating, "Accept the refugees. Please do". [editline]28th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832499]What the fuck are you even going on about? There's nothing wrong with that summation except that I could have been a little less sarcastic about it. After all, all you've said is basically "We have a homeless problem so we shouldn't accept refugees" Oh and just because you're only one of three people in the thread doesn't mean I was personally attacking you. I'm talking about in general the entire "homeless" argument because I've seen it argued before by other people. You're not the only person in the world who does one thing you know?[/QUOTE] HAH You say you're not putting words in my mouth, and then [B]literally put words in my mouth.[/B]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832492]Oh right yeah I forgot you're intimately acquinted with the specifics of my city(What I'm always talking about when I refer to the homeless problem) so you're no doubt fully aware of why our homeless problem is getting worse, right?[/QUOTE] Ah yes because I totally said everything about your specific city. Nice fucking strawman.

Helping people that aren't from your country is for chumps apparently. CANADA FOR CANADIANS!

You're a joke if you can't see that I've literally been saying repeatedly "Bring them in. Please do". Fuck off man, I'm so sick of this argument because it's not "Sarcastically" rewriting the argumnet. It's doing so in a clearly insulting and ignorant manner because you must be refusing to read my posts if you say "All you're saying is keep them out". Scuse me, I'm not and you need to stop arguing by putting words in my mouth.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;49832451]Why does it NEED to have a tangible benefit? Why can't we just be doing it because it's THE DECENT thing to do? Isn't that what people do for people in need? Obviously I personally benefit nothing from these refugees but that doesn't mean I'd prefer to leave them to risk their lives in a war torn country. I feel much better giving them the opportunity at a better life here in Canada.[/QUOTE] Yes I know its charity and helping people is always good. But see how its not beneficial? Thats even MORE wasted money on shit that could of helped Canada, because if you get no benefits for the refugees, and them being refugees will be going back, they wont give anything back to Canada. Homeless and Veterans and giving to them is STILL charity and the right thing, except now you are literally helping the people in your country who have either already given, or have a lot higher chance doing something for your country than a group of people who come and then leave. The problem is because just because its charitable doesnt mean its the best thing to be doing right now. Is Canada ready to face crime that is backed more culturally than individually by some of these refugees? Is that fair making an obvious big and known risk with the current refugees to everyone in your country? I mean you do realize some extremists are 100% gonna be in that 25,000 and you only need about 5 to pull something big off and more moderates can be bred? Why is Canada putting itself in that position?

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832516]Ah yes because I totally said everything about your specific city. Nice fucking strawman.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It's not as if the governments of countries just forgot about homeless people. [/QUOTE] Then why say this when my government did?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832506]It's one of the many things. Again, can you point out where i said "Theyre the thing that tips off the budget" or anything to that effect at all? No, they're one of the things, and as I keep reiterating, "Accept the refugees. Please do". [editline]28th February 2016[/editline] HAH You say you're not putting words in my mouth, and then [B]literally put words in my mouth.[/B][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832418]So in your mind public attention can be applied equally and fairly across all sorts of different groups even though the news and other media channels don't bother following the homeless problem because people by and large don't care about the issue in comparison to people fleeing a war torn country? But of course, Killuah, there's no reason for anyone to look at the problems of the nation and have anything to say about it. Canadians have a limited amount of tax money. Budgets do not have the ability to fund everything. Neither do peoples attention spans. Someone gets ignored. Someone gets shafted. You can think whatever you want about me, but I do not think it's wrong for me to ask questions about why the homeless community gets ignored so routinely in our nation.[/QUOTE] I realize now that you said it's an attention thing, not a budget thing. Lol.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49832523]Yes I know its charity and helping people is always good. But see how its not beneficial? Thats even MORE wasted money on shit that could of helped Canada, because if you get no benefits for the refugees, and them being refugees will be going back, they wont give anything back to Canada. Homeless and Veterans and giving to them is STILL charity and the right thing, except now you are literally helping the people in your country who have either already given, or have a lot higher chance doing something for your country than a group of people who come and then leave. The problem is because just because its charitable doesnt mean its the best thing to be doing right now. Is Canada ready to face crime that is backed more culturally than individually by some of these refugees? Is that fair making an obvious big and known risk with the current refugees to everyone in your country? I mean you do realize some extremists are 100% gonna be in that 25,000 and you only need about 5 to pull something big off? Why is Canada putting itself in that position?[/QUOTE]you are using a vague minority to dismiss the majority

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832506]It's one of the many things. Again, can you point out where i said "Theyre the thing that tips off the budget" or anything to that effect at all? No, they're one of the things, and as I keep reiterating, "Accept the refugees. Please do". [editline]28th February 2016[/editline] HAH You say you're not putting words in my mouth, and then [B]literally put words in my mouth.[/B][/QUOTE] Says the guy who just strawmanned the shit out of me. Not to mention the fact that I wasn't personally attacking you. [editline]28th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49832524]Then why say this when my government did?[/QUOTE] Because Local government is a different thing then fucking federal government huh?

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832535]Says the guy who just strawmanned the shit out of me. Not to mention the fact that I wasn't personally attacking you.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]"We have a homeless problem so we shouldn't accept refugees"[/QUOTE] You kind of are when you literally say that to me specifically in complete and utter ignorance of my actual stance then yeah, I'm kinda confused how you're the victim of being strawmanned and having words shoved in your mouth when your sole method of argumentation with me has been just that. Strawmanning my arguments into things that they're not, and putting words in my mouth. [editline]28th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=TornadoAP;49832535] Because Local government is a different thing then fucking federal government huh?[/QUOTE] Government is government and different jurisdictions of them have different priorities and regardless you didn't specify. Do you really think the Fed cares about one cities homeless problem?

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;49832517] CANADA FOR CANADIANS![/QUOTE] Its extremely unfair to represent all criticisms of the liberal parties policies in regards to refugees as racist. The Trudeau government is considering accepting 100,000 refugees and we still have this homelessness problem that we've been ignoring for decades. I think thats shameful. This has nothing to do with race or racism. [QUOTE=Zeke129;49832493]...[i]this thread[/i], [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1507014]defending this video[/url] Thank you for telling me to take a look I have absolute certainty that you are liberal now[/QUOTE] I think that thread is a perfect example of how people misrepresent me. Please take the time to read it. Also, criticizing the radical far left that hate white people, want people they disagree with censored and want segregation in the name of progress does not make me not left wing. I favor more social programs and actually support more immigration.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49832523]Yes I know its charity and helping people is always good. But see how its not beneficial? Thats even MORE wasted money on shit that could of helped Canada, because if you get no benefits for the refugees, and them being refugees will be going back, they wont give anything back to Canada. Homeless and Veterans and giving to them is STILL charity and the right thing, except now you are literally helping the people in your country who have either already given, or have a lot higher chance doing something for your country than a group of people who come and then leave. The problem is because just because its charitable doesnt mean its the best thing to be doing right now. Is Canada ready to face crime that is backed more culturally than individually by some of these refugees? Is that fair making an obvious big and known risk with the current refugees to everyone in your country? I mean you do realize some extremists are 100% gonna be in that 25,000 and you only need about 5 to pull something big off? Why is Canada putting itself in that position?[/QUOTE] Judging people by their usefulness is social darwinism and I hope you don't treat people around you like that.