European MPs to Israel: Lift Gaza blockade completely - Polidicks

[QUOTE=gudman;22918152]I'm glad that my country is neutral at this point. Our people mainly support Israel, we all know what it is.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I've talked with some Russian folks on the internet a few times, they said stuff like "hey dude sorry for '56" and I was all "what happened in '56?" "Oh, we sold guns to the Arabs" "Don't worry about that, no problem". [editline]12:24PM[/editline] [QUOTE=starpluck;22919142]You're so excited aren't you. My friend was just like you, now he hates the IDF to guts.[/QUOTE] Excited about killing TURRURRISTS.

[QUOTE=gudman;22918152] using civillians as a living shield (more often just to take more casualties), .[/QUOTE] Where do people keep getting this lie? "Hamas uses human shields" I'm starting to think the Israeli propaganda machine is true. Goldstone already concluded Hamas never used human shields. And the only 'evidence' Israeli apologists use to support their claim of Hamas using human shields is cartoons (I'm serious lol) and some doctored video by the IDF, editing certain parts and skipping to other scenes to make it seem Hamas is using human shields. A friend of mine actually seen the full video with commentary and they were actually saving the kids. The doctored video in question: [media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=J08GqXMr3YE[/media] But hey, let's turn a blind eye on the IDF using human shields. [ATTACH]17[/ATTACH] Shows the IDF using a civilian to shield them. [media]http://youtube.com/watch?v=FjEd4hJNVCE[/media]

[QUOTE=GunFox;22910467]The school in Beit Lahiya was admitted to be a mistake I believe. Missing with artillery due to improper data relayed to the launch team is incredibly common. Given that the same shells used for smoke are also marking shells, it's entirely possible that an artillery strike was being lined up and the marking shell was called down onto the wrong location. There was heavy fighting near the school. Further accidental deaths in the school were caused by a tank missing its target (or simply shooting through accidentally) and hitting the school. It would also make sense that artillery was being sighted in. If it was a quick smoke or a barrage intended to cause chaos, each would have certain patterns. But the shell that hit the school was by itself.[/QUOTE] I would like to see your sources on these claims. And if it was an accident, it's an accident that happens way too often. Regardless of what you say however, fact is that they still fired WP in a civilian area which is highly illegal.

[QUOTE=Taishu;22919724]Regardless of what you say however, fact is that they still fired WP in a civilian area which is highly illegal.[/QUOTE] Where is it said that firing WP in civilian areas is illegal?

I dunno, maybe in every normal person's mind?

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22919810]Where is it said that firing WP in civilian areas is illegal?[/QUOTE] The Geneva Convention[U][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions"] [/URL][/U]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22919112]Nope, and that's 3 years. I'll soon be enlisted though, then it's terrorist killing time! :clint:[/QUOTE] I wonder how many civilians and terrorists you will get to kill mate! Ive never met someone excited to kill human beings. Oh and Fixed: [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22919112]Nope, and that's 3 years. I'll soon be enlisted though, then it's civilian and terrorist killing time! :clint:[/QUOTE] [editline]03:46AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Taishu;22920200]The Geneva Convention[U][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions"] [/URL][/U][/QUOTE] Indeed, Its a UN banned weapon. [editline]03:48AM[/editline] Oh and by the way, For the sake of life dont shoot at a civilian. Try your best to aim for the people in green wearing hamas headbands. [editline]03:48AM[/editline] Anyways, I support the hamas for attempting to fight you guys, I dont support there terrorism. And only for that.

[QUOTE=Taishu;22920200]The Geneva Convention[U][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions"] [/URL][/U][/QUOTE] I'm assuming you mean this particular convention: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons[/url] Which only restricts the uses of several weapons. Take a look at "Protocol III: Incendiary Weapons" Paragraph which specifically says WP isn't restricted. [editline]01:56PM[/editline] [QUOTE=doonbugie;22920226]I wonder how many civilians and terrorists you will get to kill mate! Ive never met someone excited to kill human beings. Oh and Fixed: [editline]03:46AM[/editline] Indeed, Its a UN banned weapon. [editline]03:48AM[/editline] Oh and by the way, For the sake of life dont shoot at a civilian. Try your best to aim for the people in green wearing hamas headbands. [editline]03:48AM[/editline] Anyways, I support the hamas for attempting to fight you guys, I dont support there terrorism. And only for that.[/QUOTE] I'm not gonna kill civilians, unless it's an accident. In fact if my commander tells me to shoot civilians or something, I can just disobey and tell his superiors about his order.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22920347]I'm assuming you mean this particular convention: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons[/URL] Which only restricts the uses of several weapons. Take a look at "Protocol III: Incendiary Weapons" Paragraph which specifically says WP isn't restricted. [editline]01:56PM[/editline] I'm not gonna kill civilians, unless it's an accident. In fact if my commander tells me to shoot civilians or something, I can just disobey and tell his superiors about his order.[/QUOTE] Just please... dont aim for the civilians, And dont run over civilians with excavators. Also cant you be shot for disobeying.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22920347]I'm assuming you mean this particular convention: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Certain_Conventional_Weapons[/URL] Which only restricts the uses of several weapons. Take a look at "Protocol III: Incendiary Weapons" Paragraph which specifically says WP isn't restricted.[/QUOTE] It is illegal to use incendiary weapons in civilian areas.

[QUOTE=Taishu;22920561]It is illegal to use incendiary weapons in civilian areas.[/QUOTE] "Protocol III lists certain munition types like smoke shells which, even if they contain White Phosphorus, only have a secondary incendiary effect. These munition types are not considered to be Incendiary weapons."

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22920597]"Protocol III lists certain munition types like smoke shells which, even if they contain White Phosphorus, only have a secondary incendiary effect. These munition types are not considered to be Incendiary weapons."[/QUOTE] Does not exclude all types of WP munition.

[QUOTE=Taishu;22920720]Does not exclude all types of WP munition.[/QUOTE] Israel only used the munition types that are legal.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22920795]Israel only used the munition types that are legal.[/QUOTE] Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that they used them illegally.

I can always count on Burnemdown nitpicking every fucking loophole available and labeling it "just" what a fine young man you are

[QUOTE=Taishu;22920845]Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that they used them illegally.[/QUOTE] They used them only as an obscurant or an illuminant, not to hit civilians or enemies, which is legal. [editline]02:52PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Warhol;22920867]I can always count on Burnemdown nitpicking every fucking loophole available and labeling it "just" what a fine young man you are[/QUOTE] It's not a loophole when they specifically say White Phosphorus isn't included in the illegal weapons list.

[QUOTE=Warhol;22920867]I can always count on Burnemdown nitpicking every fucking loophole available and labeling it "just" what a fine young man you are[/QUOTE] It's not a loophole. WP is an important addition to modern military arsenals. Oh Geneva conventions. You are such a joke. Best of intentions, but the only people contained by the conventions are the victors in a conflict. You place rules on what is, in effect, a battle to the death. The instant one party starts losing and the enemy force creeps closer and closer to their capital, they are going to start pulling out the stops and using whatever means are available. Or, given current conflicts, the defending force never adhered to the rules anyways and uses such tactics from the start. Oh and did I mention that Israel NEVER AGREED TO THAT PART OF THE TREATY. [url]http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XXVI-2&chapter=26&lang=en[/url] Protocol III was never consented to. Which is allowed under the design of the treaty. Israel can use full on napalm if they want.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22921091]It's not a loophole. WP is an important addition to modern military arsenals. Oh Geneva conventions. You are such a joke. Best of intentions, but the only people contained by the conventions are the victors in a conflict. You place rules on what is, in effect, a battle to the death. The instant one party starts losing and the enemy force creeps closer and closer to their capital, they are going to start pulling out the stops and using whatever means are available. Or, given current conflicts, the defending force never adhered to the rules anyways and uses such tactics from the start. Oh and did I mention that Israel NEVER AGREED TO THAT PART OF THE TREATY. [url]http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XXVI-2&chapter=26&lang=en[/url] Protocol III was never consented to. Which is allowed under the design of the treaty. Israel can use full on napalm if they want.[/QUOTE] It's fucking stupid to say that, now that Israel took the Nuremberg trials quite to heart, and that all relied on judging the Nazi's on several counts of war crimes. Where are the laws who regulate those war crimes contained? These conventions. So isn't Israel committing a terribly hypocritical act by attempting genocide with war crimes? Also, Israel signed, it just simply didn't ratify the treaty. But anyway, moving on to more legal jargon. Protocol III states that weapons, even if they contain WP, if they have a secondary incendiary feature, it is not illegal to use. A hammer has the primary feature of hammering, and the secondary feature of murdering. But what about a thrown hammer? Can you nail something by throwing a hammer? Isn't it more probable that this hammer is going to harm somebody? Because, as far as I remember, throwing a hammer at someone is going to get you arrested for battery. So yes, WP does generate smoke due to the sheer temperature that it burns in. It would be good for a smoke cover. But then, why in the world would you prime said WP in the air, with the intention of only making the very small pieces of WP impact against the ground? Wouldn't causing it all to detonate above ground make it miss the point of creating smoke cover? Let's not even consider if there were any IDF soldiers around the smoke that could have benefited from the smoke cover anyway. But still, there's proof to this, there's proof I myself saw on a live stream of Gaza. Here's a picture of how little effect would the smoke cover. [IMG]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/images/wp-gaza-2009-image01.jpg[/IMG] Israel is committing a severe act of hypocrisy by ignoring the same international treaties and such that helped it exist. It's tremendously illogical to see a state that was made by the UN ignore the UN and begin a bloody conquest against another state. The world wants peace, and Israel wants genocide for the only purpose of [url=http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=957571]building fucking tourists centres.[/url]

Scroll down. Parties only have to agree to two of the protocols. Israel chose not to agree to protocol III. And let me stop you right there. The smoke shells are smoke shells. They air burst for distributing smoke more quickly. They are American made M825A1 smoke shells and they have been around for a long time. And no it isn't good smoke just because of how hot it burns. It produces smoke with unparalleled refractive properties due to the chemical composition of WP.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22921046]They used them only as an obscurant or an illuminant, not to hit civilians or enemies, which is legal.[/QUOTE] Except, you know, they did hit civilians.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22921584]Scroll down. Parties only have to agree to two of the protocols. Israel chose not to agree to protocol III.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/NORM/4F63DC0452DC95BEC1256402003FD28B?OpenDocument[/url] Hmm? If they don't agree to the protocol, it's even worse for them. There is such thing as applying excessive force, the principle of proportionality. I don't think the Nazis signed any protocols anyway. And look what happened to them, the State of Israel took them to trial anyway.

[QUOTE=Taishu;22921624]Except, you know, they did hit civilians.[/QUOTE] Hitting civilians doesn't mean they meant to. Do you think Israel wanted all those ~900 civilians dead? No, but it went to war knowing some civilians will die, as is always the case in war. There were two Israeli officers who used WP, not only where they weren't authorized to, but they also used it against civilians illegally. They were sentenced and were brought to justice.

why are you trying to defend Israel by saying that they never agreed to a part of an agreement that disallows extremely horrifying weaponry. what does that say about Israel.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;22921644][url]http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/NORM/4F63DC0452DC95BEC1256402003FD28B?OpenDocument[/url] Hmm? If they don't agree to the protocol, it's even worse for them. There is such thing as applying excessive force, the principle of proportionality. I don't think the Nazis signed any protocols anyway. And look what happened to them, the State of Israel took them to trial anyway.[/QUOTE] Excessive force? They hit civilians with a smoke shell on accident. How many times do I have to say that smoke shells aren't effective weapons? If they wanted civilians dead, there are a thousand and one better ways to do it. Both overtly and covertly.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22919142]You're so excited aren't you. My friend was just like you, now he hates the IDF to guts.[/QUOTE] Even I hate IDF. And I fucking LIVE in israel.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;22921687]why are you trying to defend Israel by saying that they never agreed to a part of an agreement that disallows extremely horrifying weaponry. what does that say about Israel.[/QUOTE] You use incendiaries, you pay the price in the media. Making rules about it that cannot be enforced is silly.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22921736]You use incendiaries, you pay the price in the media. Making rules about it that cannot be enforced is silly.[/QUOTE] Irrelevant. Why would Israel choose not to sign it, despite the fact it can't be enforced.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22921681]Hitting civilians doesn't mean they meant to. Do you think Israel wanted all those ~900 civilians dead? No, but it went to war knowing some civilians will die, as is always the case in war. There were two Israeli officers who used WP, not only where they weren't authorized to, but they also used it against civilians illegally. They were sentenced and were brought to justice.[/QUOTE] Sources? Maybe it's time to revision your tactics, when they result in the deaths of nearly twice as many civilians as enemy combatants.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22921736]You use incendiaries, you pay the price in the media. Making rules about it that cannot be enforced is silly.[/QUOTE] Heh, you say that to Josef Mengele. War criminals exist, and they are taken to trial and given a sentence. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials[/url] I'd like to know who's going to take responsibility for that "accident". [img]http://veganfishtacos.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/3210025024_0cba7dec3e2.jpg[/img] Because those "smoke shells" aren't so harmless.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;22921983]Heh, you say that to Josef Mengele. War criminals exist, and they are taken to trial and given a sentence. [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials[/URL] I'd like to know who's going to take responsibility for that "accident". [IMG]http://veganfishtacos.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/3210025024_0cba7dec3e2.jpg[/IMG] Because those "smoke shells" aren't so harmless.[/QUOTE] I fucking hate pictures of [I]accidental [/I]white phosphorus, how it burns to the bone is sick. Especially when you see babies affected by them, and are still alive. How [I]accidental[/I].