European MPs to Israel: Lift Gaza blockade completely

[Starpluck]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22925885]It doesn't justify it, but it means that the "no Hamas in the school" thing is invalid.

Source? And don't bring a "no Hamas was in the school" source, because they're invalid.[/QUOTE]
Actually no, the pictures were the Beit Lahia school.

The Times CNN source was for a different school. Once again calling reputable news sources invalid?

[BurnEmDown]

[QUOTE=starpluck;22926020]Actually no, the pictures were the Beit Lahia school.

The Times CNN source was for a different school. Once again calling reputable news sources invalid?[/QUOTE]

Oops, rate me bad reading then.

So the WP shelling was completely stupid and the two IDF officers deserved a much harder punishment.

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22924659]It's not a rare tactic, they just don't use it anymore because of... Guess what? THE WALL.

In 2000-2006 there were suicide bombings every single week![/QUOTE]

Hahahaha.

Get this, a wall stops suicide bombings.
Let's all worship the wall.
It also stops hamas from taking over the world.
the wall saves all and does nothing wrong.

[A Dead Guy]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;22926834]Hahahaha.

Get this, a wall stops suicide bombings.
Let's all worship the wall.
It also stops hamas from taking over the world.
the wall saves all and does nothing wrong.[/QUOTE]

Are you stupid?
Wall=less terrorists managing to get outside=less suicide bombings.
It also means that it is much harder to let bomb making material and weapons go in.
How is that hard to understand?

[Starpluck]

[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;22927727]Are you stupid?
Wall=less terrorists managing to get outside=less suicide bombings.
It also means that it is much harder to let bomb making material and weapons go in.
How is that hard to understand?[/QUOTE]

[release]
The barrier has many effects on Palestinians including reduced freedoms, reduction of the amount of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces_checkpoint"]Israel Defense Forces checkpoints[/URL], road closures, loss of land, increased difficulty in accessing medical and educational services in Israel,[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-Stratton07-38"][39][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-Qato07-39"][40][/URL] [B]restricted access to water sources[/B], and economic effects.

[B]Reduced freedoms[/B]

In a 2005 report, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations"]United Nations[/URL] stated that:
“ ...it is difficult to overstate the humanitarian impact of the Barrier. The route inside the West Bank severs communities, people’s access to services, livelihoods and religious and cultural amenities. In addition, plans for the Barrier’s exact route and crossing points through it are often not fully revealed until days before construction commences. This has led to considerable anxiety amongst Palestinians about how their future lives will be impacted...The land between the Barrier and the Green Line constitutes some of the most fertile in the West Bank. It is currently the home for 49,400 West Bank Palestinians living in 38 villages and towns.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-humanitarianinfo_Rprt05-40"][41][/URL] ” — Introduction UN report Pg4
An often-quoted example of the effects of the barrier is the Palestinian town of Qalqilyah, a city of around 45,000, which is surrounded on all sides by the barrier. One 8 meter-high concrete section of this wall follows the Green Line between the city and the nearby Trans-Israel Highway. This section, referred to as an "anti-sniper wall," has been claimed to prevent gun attacks against Israeli motorists on the Trans-Israel Highway.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Q.26A_September_2005-41"][42][/URL] The city is accessible through a military checkpoint on the main road from the east, and an underground tunnel built in September 2004 on the south side connects Qalqilyah with the adjacent village of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habla"]Habla[/URL]. Recently, the Israeli Supreme Court ordered the government to change the route of the barrier in this area to ease movement of Palestinians between Qalqilyah and five surrounding villages. In the same ruling, the court rejected the arguments that the fence must be built only on the Green Line. The ruling cited the topography of the terrain, security considerations, and sections 43 and 52 of The Hague Regulations 1907 and Article 53 of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention"]Fourth Geneva Convention[/URL] as reasons for this rejection.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-HCF-0"][1][/URL]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palestinian_children_and_Israeli_wall.jpg"]
[/URL]

In early October 2003, the IDF OC [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Central_Command"]Central Command[/URL] declared the area between the separation barrier in the northern section of the West Bank (Stage 1) and the Green Line a closed military area for an indefinite period of time. New directives stated that every Palestinian over the age of twelve living in the enclaves created in the closed area have to obtain a “permanent resident permit” from the Civil Administration to enable them to continue to live in their homes. Other residents of the West Bank have to obtain special permits to enter the area.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BTStat-1"][2][/URL]

[B]Loss of land[/B]

See also: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seam_Zone"]Seam Zone[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demolition_in_the_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict"]House demolition in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict[/URL]
Parts of the barrier are built on land seized from Palestinians.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Q.26A_September_2005-41"][42][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-CNN_November_2003-46"][47][/URL] In a 2009 report, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN"]UN[/URL] noted that the most recent barrier route allocates more segments to be built on the Green Line itself compared to previous draft routes of the barrier. However, in its current route the Wall is annexing 9.5% of the total area of the West Bank to the Israeli side of the barrier.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-ochajuly2009-47"][48][/URL]
In early 2003, 63 shops straddling the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line"]Green Line[/URL] were demolished by the IDF during construction of the wall in the village of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nazlat_Issa&action=edit&redlink=1"]Nazlat Issa[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-humanitarianinfo_2004-48"][49][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-nytimes_Jan_2003-49"][50][/URL] In August 2003, an additional 115 shops and stalls (an important source of income for several communities) and five to seven homes there were also demolished.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-50"][51][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-51"][52][/URL]
According to the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Relief_and_Works_Agency"]United Nations Relief and Works Agency[/URL] (UNRWA), 15 communities were to be directly affected, numbering approximately 138,593 Palestinians, including 13,450 refugee families, or 67,250 individuals. In addition to loss of land, in the city of Qalqilyah one-third of the city's water wells lie on the other side of the barrier. The Israeli Supreme Court notes the Israeli government's rejection of accusations of a [I]de facto[/I] annexation of these wells, stating that "the construction of the fence does not affect the implementation of the water agreements determined in the (interim) agreement".[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-HCF-0"][1][/URL]
The [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_and_Social_Commission_for_Western_Asia"]United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia[/URL] (ESCWA) estimates that in the north of the West Bank approximately 80 per cent of Palestinians who own land on the other side of the barrier have not received permits from the Israeli authorities, and hence cannot cultivate their fields.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-52"][53][/URL]
[B][[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli_West_Bank_barrier&action=edit&section=15"]edit[/URL]] Health and medical services[/B]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9decins_du_Monde"]Médecins du Monde[/URL], the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Movement"]Palestinian Red Crescent Society[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_for_Human_Rights"]Physicians for Human Rights-Israel[/URL] have stated that the barrier "harms West Bank health".[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Feb_2005-53"][54][/URL] Upon completion of the construction, the organizations predict, the barrier would prevent over 130,000 Palestinian children from being immunised, and deny more than 100,000 pregnant women (out of which 17,640 are high risk pregnancies) access to healthcare in Israel.[B] In addition, almost a third of West Bank villages will suffer from lack of access to healthcare. [/B]After completion, many residents may lose complete access to emergency care at night. In towns near Jerusalem ([URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Dis"]Abu Dis[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Eizariya"]al-Eizariya[/URL]), for example, average time for an ambulance to travel to the nearest hospital has increased from 10 minutes to over 110 minutes.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-bmj_2005-54"][55][/URL]

A report from [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_for_Human_Rights"]Physicians for Human Rights[/URL]-Israel states that the barrier imposes "almost-total separation" on the hospitals from the population they are supposed to serve.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-phr_2005-55"][56][/URL] The report also noted that patients from the West Bank visiting Jerusalem's Palestinian clinics declined by half from 2002 to 2003.

[B]Human rights organizations[/B]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International"]Amnesty International[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch"]Human Rights Watch[/URL] and other [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_groups_and_the_Middle_East"]Human rights groups[/URL] have protested both the routing of the wall and the means by which the land to build the wall was obtained.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-87"][88][/URL] In a 2004 report Amnesty International wrote that "The fence/wall, in its present configuration, violates Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law."[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-autogenerated2-88"][89][/URL]
They continue:[INDENT] Since the summer of 2002 the Israeli army has been destroying large areas of Palestinian agricultural land, as well as other properties, to make way for a fence/wall which it is building in the West Bank. In addition to the large areas of particularly fertile Palestinian farmland that have been destroyed, other larger areas have been cut off from the rest of the West Bank by the fence/wall. The fence/wall is not being built between Israel and the Occupied Territories but mostly (close to 90%) inside the West Bank, turning Palestinian towns and villages into isolated enclaves, cutting off communities and families from each other, separating farmers from their land and Palestinians from their places of work, education and health care facilities and other essential services. This in order to facilitate passage between Israel and more than 50 illegal Israeli settlements located in the West Bank.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-autogenerated2-88"][89][/URL]
[/INDENT][/release]

And an Israeli Human Rights group at the checkpoint describes the typical daily life for Palestinians.

[release]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machsom_Watch"]Machsom Watch[/URL], an Israeli women's human rights group, who were at [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ras"]al-Ras[/URL] checkpoint, describes a typical daily life of Palestinians in West Bank:[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-103"][104][/URL][INDENT]
[LIST]
[*]13.50: All people (male and female) between the ages of 16 to 30 who are residents of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulkarem"]Tulkarem[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nablus"]Nablus[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenin"]Jenin[/URL], and the villages surrounding these towns, are not allowed southward.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]14.44: A car with a bridegroom arrives at the checkpoint. His wedding is in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_Lid"]Beit Lid[/URL]. However he is from Tulkarem and young and he is told he can't pass through. A relative of his who is from Taibe and who speaks fluent Hebrew, tries to talk to all the soldiers to convince them to let him pass through.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]14.50: The bus with only women and children who are heading to Beit Lid for the wedding arrives at the checking booth. IDs are checked. Five of the young women, some with young children, are from Tulkarem and are told to leave the bus.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]14.59: They are not allowed to pass. They get a taxi on the other side of the street to go back home. The bridegroom has still not been allowed through. Aunts, uncles and other relatives are all standing around trying to figure out what to do. The relative from Taibe continues to go from one soldier to the other to ask for help.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]15.10: The bridegroom is told he cannot go through. He stands to the side.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]15.37: The bridegroom is sent home.
[/LIST]
[/INDENT][/release]

[A Dead Guy]

[QUOTE=starpluck;22927803][release]
The barrier has many effects on Palestinians including reduced freedoms, reduction of the amount of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces_checkpoint"]Israel Defense Forces checkpoints[/URL], road closures, loss of land, increased difficulty in accessing medical and educational services in Israel,[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-Stratton07-38"][39][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-Qato07-39"][40][/URL] [B]restricted access to water sources[/B], and economic effects.

[B]Reduced freedoms[/B]

In a 2005 report, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations"]United Nations[/URL] stated that:
“ ...it is difficult to overstate the humanitarian impact of the Barrier. The route inside the West Bank severs communities, people’s access to services, livelihoods and religious and cultural amenities. In addition, plans for the Barrier’s exact route and crossing points through it are often not fully revealed until days before construction commences. This has led to considerable anxiety amongst Palestinians about how their future lives will be impacted...The land between the Barrier and the Green Line constitutes some of the most fertile in the West Bank. It is currently the home for 49,400 West Bank Palestinians living in 38 villages and towns.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-humanitarianinfo_Rprt05-40"][41][/URL] ” — Introduction UN report Pg4
An often-quoted example of the effects of the barrier is the Palestinian town of Qalqilyah, a city of around 45,000, which is surrounded on all sides by the barrier. One 8 meter-high concrete section of this wall follows the Green Line between the city and the nearby Trans-Israel Highway. This section, referred to as an "anti-sniper wall," has been claimed to prevent gun attacks against Israeli motorists on the Trans-Israel Highway.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Q.26A_September_2005-41"][42][/URL] The city is accessible through a military checkpoint on the main road from the east, and an underground tunnel built in September 2004 on the south side connects Qalqilyah with the adjacent village of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habla"]Habla[/URL]. Recently, the Israeli Supreme Court ordered the government to change the route of the barrier in this area to ease movement of Palestinians between Qalqilyah and five surrounding villages. In the same ruling, the court rejected the arguments that the fence must be built only on the Green Line. The ruling cited the topography of the terrain, security considerations, and sections 43 and 52 of The Hague Regulations 1907 and Article 53 of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention"]Fourth Geneva Convention[/URL] as reasons for this rejection.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-HCF-0"][1][/URL]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palestinian_children_and_Israeli_wall.jpg"]
[/URL]

In early October 2003, the IDF OC [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Central_Command"]Central Command[/URL] declared the area between the separation barrier in the northern section of the West Bank (Stage 1) and the Green Line a closed military area for an indefinite period of time. New directives stated that every Palestinian over the age of twelve living in the enclaves created in the closed area have to obtain a “permanent resident permit” from the Civil Administration to enable them to continue to live in their homes. Other residents of the West Bank have to obtain special permits to enter the area.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BTStat-1"][2][/URL]

[B]Loss of land[/B]

See also: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seam_Zone"]Seam Zone[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_demolition_in_the_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict"]House demolition in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict[/URL]
Parts of the barrier are built on land seized from Palestinians.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Q.26A_September_2005-41"][42][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-CNN_November_2003-46"][47][/URL] In a 2009 report, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN"]UN[/URL] noted that the most recent barrier route allocates more segments to be built on the Green Line itself compared to previous draft routes of the barrier. However, in its current route the Wall is annexing 9.5% of the total area of the West Bank to the Israeli side of the barrier.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-ochajuly2009-47"][48][/URL]
In early 2003, 63 shops straddling the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line"]Green Line[/URL] were demolished by the IDF during construction of the wall in the village of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nazlat_Issa&action=edit&redlink=1"]Nazlat Issa[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-humanitarianinfo_2004-48"][49][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-nytimes_Jan_2003-49"][50][/URL] In August 2003, an additional 115 shops and stalls (an important source of income for several communities) and five to seven homes there were also demolished.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-50"][51][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-51"][52][/URL]
According to the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Relief_and_Works_Agency"]United Nations Relief and Works Agency[/URL] (UNRWA), 15 communities were to be directly affected, numbering approximately 138,593 Palestinians, including 13,450 refugee families, or 67,250 individuals. In addition to loss of land, in the city of Qalqilyah one-third of the city's water wells lie on the other side of the barrier. The Israeli Supreme Court notes the Israeli government's rejection of accusations of a [I]de facto[/I] annexation of these wells, stating that "the construction of the fence does not affect the implementation of the water agreements determined in the (interim) agreement".[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-HCF-0"][1][/URL]
The [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_and_Social_Commission_for_Western_Asia"]United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia[/URL] (ESCWA) estimates that in the north of the West Bank approximately 80 per cent of Palestinians who own land on the other side of the barrier have not received permits from the Israeli authorities, and hence cannot cultivate their fields.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-52"][53][/URL]
[B][[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli_West_Bank_barrier&action=edit&section=15"]edit[/URL]] Health and medical services[/B]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9decins_du_Monde"]Médecins du Monde[/URL], the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Movement"]Palestinian Red Crescent Society[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_for_Human_Rights"]Physicians for Human Rights-Israel[/URL] have stated that the barrier "harms West Bank health".[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-BBC_Feb_2005-53"][54][/URL] Upon completion of the construction, the organizations predict, the barrier would prevent over 130,000 Palestinian children from being immunised, and deny more than 100,000 pregnant women (out of which 17,640 are high risk pregnancies) access to healthcare in Israel.[B] In addition, almost a third of West Bank villages will suffer from lack of access to healthcare. [/B]After completion, many residents may lose complete access to emergency care at night. In towns near Jerusalem ([URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Dis"]Abu Dis[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Eizariya"]al-Eizariya[/URL]), for example, average time for an ambulance to travel to the nearest hospital has increased from 10 minutes to over 110 minutes.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-bmj_2005-54"][55][/URL]

A report from [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicians_for_Human_Rights"]Physicians for Human Rights[/URL]-Israel states that the barrier imposes "almost-total separation" on the hospitals from the population they are supposed to serve.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-phr_2005-55"][56][/URL] The report also noted that patients from the West Bank visiting Jerusalem's Palestinian clinics declined by half from 2002 to 2003.

[B]Human rights organizations[/B]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International"]Amnesty International[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch"]Human Rights Watch[/URL] and other [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_groups_and_the_Middle_East"]Human rights groups[/URL] have protested both the routing of the wall and the means by which the land to build the wall was obtained.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-87"][88][/URL] In a 2004 report Amnesty International wrote that "The fence/wall, in its present configuration, violates Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law."[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-autogenerated2-88"][89][/URL]
They continue:[INDENT] Since the summer of 2002 the Israeli army has been destroying large areas of Palestinian agricultural land, as well as other properties, to make way for a fence/wall which it is building in the West Bank. In addition to the large areas of particularly fertile Palestinian farmland that have been destroyed, other larger areas have been cut off from the rest of the West Bank by the fence/wall. The fence/wall is not being built between Israel and the Occupied Territories but mostly (close to 90%) inside the West Bank, turning Palestinian towns and villages into isolated enclaves, cutting off communities and families from each other, separating farmers from their land and Palestinians from their places of work, education and health care facilities and other essential services. This in order to facilitate passage between Israel and more than 50 illegal Israeli settlements located in the West Bank.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-autogenerated2-88"][89][/URL]
[/INDENT][/release]

And an Israeli Human Rights group at the checkpoint describes the typical daily life for Palestinians.

[release]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machsom_Watch"]Machsom Watch[/URL], an Israeli women's human rights group, who were at [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ras"]al-Ras[/URL] checkpoint, describes a typical daily life of Palestinians in West Bank:[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#cite_note-103"][104][/URL][INDENT]
[LIST]
[*]13.50: All people (male and female) between the ages of 16 to 30 who are residents of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulkarem"]Tulkarem[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nablus"]Nablus[/URL] and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenin"]Jenin[/URL], and the villages surrounding these towns, are not allowed southward.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]14.44: A car with a bridegroom arrives at the checkpoint. His wedding is in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_Lid"]Beit Lid[/URL]. However he is from Tulkarem and young and he is told he can't pass through. A relative of his who is from Taibe and who speaks fluent Hebrew, tries to talk to all the soldiers to convince them to let him pass through.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]14.50: The bus with only women and children who are heading to Beit Lid for the wedding arrives at the checking booth. IDs are checked. Five of the young women, some with young children, are from Tulkarem and are told to leave the bus.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]14.59: They are not allowed to pass. They get a taxi on the other side of the street to go back home. The bridegroom has still not been allowed through. Aunts, uncles and other relatives are all standing around trying to figure out what to do. The relative from Taibe continues to go from one soldier to the other to ask for help.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]15.10: The bridegroom is told he cannot go through. He stands to the side.
[/LIST]

[LIST]
[*]15.37: The bridegroom is sent home.
[/LIST]
[/INDENT][/release][/QUOTE]

Note: I will ignore the layout of the fence in this post. This can easily be changed, and was already changed a couple of times, by appealing to the Israeli supreme court (which Palestinians can do). It is the concept of the fence itself I would discuss here.

OK, so lets sum up the options Israel has.
It can either-

1) Lift the blockade completely, thus allowing more and more weapons and armaments to go in, which will follow with an increased number of suicide bombings and rocket fire (damaging their own civilians) and may or may not cause the Palestinians to go against Hamas, or
2)Take extra precautions in everything, making sure that their civilians are as safe as possible while, unfortunately, hurting the Palestinians along the way.

So it boils down to whether Israel would like to risk their own civilians for the sake of the Palestininas, or make sure their civilians are as safe as possible while damaging some of the freedom the Palestinians have.

I think we both know what the Israeli government would do.

[Triumph Forks]

more than just some freedom.

they're pretty much a bird in a cage, and when they rattle the bars, someone tosses a firecracker in

[A Dead Guy]

[QUOTE=Triumph Forks;22928404]more like every freedom.

they're pretty much a bird in a fucking cage, and when they rattle the bars, someone tosses a firecracker in[/QUOTE]

Bad analogy.
More like a lion in a cage.
You can let it loose and have the danger of him eating you, or you can keep him locked and keep you safe while removing his freedom.
It's not a tough call for Israel, but since you are an outsider to this conflict you look at both sides equally, and-what can you do-Israel doesn't. It cares more for the protection of it's civilians then the freedom of the Palestinians. I think every government would.

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;22928484]Bad analogy.
More like a lion in a cage.
You can let it loose and have the danger of him eating you, or you can keep him locked and keep you safe while removing his freedom.
It's not a tough call for Israel, but since you are an outsider to this conflict you look at both sides equally, and-what can you do-Israel doesn't. It cares more for the protection of it's civilians then the freedom of the Palestinians. I think every government would.[/QUOTE]

If we're talking about a suicide bomber, we're talking about a man who is willing to blow himself up to kill hundreds, and you think a wall will stop him?

[Triumph Forks]

[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;22928484]Bad analogy.
More like a lion in a cage.
You can let it loose and have the danger of him eating you, or you can keep him locked and keep you safe while removing his freedom.
It's not a tough call for Israel, but since you are an outsider to this conflict you look at both sides equally, and-what can you do-Israel doesn't. It cares more for the protection of it's civilians then the freedom of the Palestinians. I think every government would.[/QUOTE]
So I'm not biased in Israel's favour. okay

[A Dead Guy]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;22928752]If we're talking about a suicide bomber, we're talking about a man who is willing to blow himself up to kill hundreds, and you think a wall will stop him?[/QUOTE]

Well it won't stop him from trying, but it will give the IDF a lot more time to stop him. Its a 10 meter wall, you know, you can't just jump over it.
There are also cameras and guard towers all along the wall.

[editline]09:59PM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Triumph Forks;22928797]So I'm not biased in Israel's favour. okay[/QUOTE]

Well of course Israel is biased in Israel's favor.
Every government cares more about its civilians then the civilians in other countries.

[Triumph Forks]

That's no excuse to treat people like dogs

[editline]04:07PM[/editline]

the palestinian people are still people

[Warhol]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22925795]So some fires got inside the school, big deal. My point is that the shells were clearly targeted the area outside the school, so the argument that there weren't any Hamas officials inside the school is irrelevant. They probably launched rockets from the playground and then ran, just like they do most of the time.[/QUOTE]

lol, it was REALLY, REALLY close to the school, so it being a few metres from the school means it was justified?

and no, that's a bullshit claim.

[editline]03:15AM[/editline]

[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;22927727]Are you stupid?
Wall=less terrorists managing to get outside=less suicide bombings.
It also means that it is much harder to let bomb making material and weapons go in.
How is that hard to understand?[/QUOTE]
lol, they can dig a tunnel.

[editline]03:15AM[/editline]

[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;22928227]Note: I will ignore the layout of the fence in this post. This can easily be changed, and was already changed a couple of times, by appealing to the Israeli supreme court (which Palestinians can do). It is the concept of the fence itself I would discuss here.

OK, so lets sum up the options Israel has.
It can either-

1) Lift the blockade completely, thus allowing more and more weapons and armaments to go in, which will follow with an increased number of suicide bombings and rocket fire (damaging their own civilians) and may or may not cause the Palestinians to go against Hamas, or
2)Take extra precautions in everything, making sure that their civilians are as safe as possible while, unfortunately, hurting the Palestinians along the way.

So it boils down to whether Israel would like to risk their own civilians for the sake of the Palestininas, or make sure their civilians are as safe as possible while damaging some of the freedom the Palestinians have.

I think we both know what the Israeli government would do.[/QUOTE]

You have no idea WHY Hamas is retaliating in the first place, do you?

[BurnEmDown]

[QUOTE=Warhol;22939126]lol, it was REALLY, REALLY close to the school, so it being a few metres from the school means it was justified?

and no, that's a bullshit claim.[/quote]

The UN specifically said that there were no terrorists inside the school, but the shelling took place outside of it, so it's not a factor. I mean, if there were terrorists inside the school, it would be a factor, but the fact that there weren't, doesn't mean that there weren't any outside of it either.

[quote]lol, they can dig a tunnel.[/quote]

They did that once actually, it took them a lot of time and resources and I think the suicide bomber was caught in time, so they didn't try it again.

[quote]You have no idea WHY Hamas is retaliating in the first place, do you?[/QUOTE]

Does it matter? Shooting at civilians because you have a good reason or cause is never justified.
I could see if there were procedures which allow such a thing under international law (such as firing WP in civilian areas), but firing while specifically designating civilians as your target, is just plain illegal, unjustified, and there's nothing anyone can say about it.

Let me give you another example: The Dresden bombings during WWII. The allies had a pretty good reason to do it: Harm the morale of the third Reich greatly. But is this enough justification? I don't think so.

[FreedomFighter]

[img]http://djiin.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/dailymail_humanshield.jpg[/img]

[Starpluck]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22958684]The UN specifically said that there were no terrorists inside the school, but the shelling took place outside of it, so it's not a factor. I mean, if there were terrorists inside the school, it would be a factor, but the fact that there weren't, doesn't mean that there weren't any outside of it either.
[/QUOTE]
I already told you the picture was from Beit Laha, and the article was for another school.

[doonbugie]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22924626]It was a "slap on the wrist" according to one defense official. Others say it was a "mild reprimand".[/QUOTE]
Isreal sucks.

[editline]01:09AM[/editline]

[QUOTE=FreedomFighter;22965993][IMG]http://djiin.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/dailymail_humanshield.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Isreal sucks.

[Warhol]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22958684]The UN specifically said that there were no terrorists inside the school, but the shelling took place outside of it, so it's not a factor. I mean, if there were terrorists inside the school, it would be a factor, but the fact that there weren't, doesn't mean that there weren't any outside of it either[/quot]
must have been one fucking huge bomb if i can stretch directly OUTSIDE the school or border where you seem to try and find loopholes, into the school

[quote]They did that once actually, it took them a lot of time and resources and I think the suicide bomber was caught in time, so they didn't try it again.[/quote]
ugh, source?

[quote]Does it matter? Shooting at civilians because you have a good reason or cause is never justified.[/quote]
You zionist scumbags fucking justify it all the fucking time. don't even play that shit.

[quote]I could see if there were procedures which allow such a thing under international law (such as firing WP in civilian areas), but firing while specifically designating civilians as your target, is just plain illegal, unjustified, and there's nothing anyone can say about it.[/quote]
how about condemning it?

[quote]Let me give you another example: The Dresden bombings during WWII. The allies had a pretty good reason to do it: Harm the morale of the third Reich greatly. But is this enough justification? I don't think so.[/QUOTE]
The US also had a massive organised army with them in the middle of a full scale war.