Australian solders left for dead in Afghanistan by Dutch Apache helicopters - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Devodiere;25560965]A lot of the guys I know aren't really that well trained or whatever, it's just that there's a fair bit of innate fighting skill. I guess it's comparable to scottish divisions in the UK armed forces that they aren't particularly well trained but are still good fighters. Also these guys were SAS so not like they're going to be anything but tough as nails.[/QUOTE] Define "aren't that well trained". Australia lives and breathes infantry warfare, especially jungle warfare, but because they aren't part of NATO, they're still behind on Mechanized warfare.

[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;25561144]Define "aren't that well trained". Australia lives and breathes infantry warfare, especially jungle warfare, but because they aren't part of NATO, they're still behind on Mechanized warfare.[/QUOTE] I'm talking about the training regime for normal infantry and the level of skill required to be in the armed forces. It's pretty good but nowhere near the best in the world. Australia is also behind on a lot of tech because we are not a rich country and cannot put lots of money into R&D or buying weapons.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;25561224]I'm talking about the training regime for normal infantry and the level of skill required to be in the armed forces. It's pretty good but nowhere near the best in the world. Australia is also behind on a lot of tech because we are not a rich country and cannot put lots of money into R&D or buying weapons.[/QUOTE] The other guy said "one of" not the "best" which is hard to qualify anyway. Fact remains that Australia does have some of the best infantry training in the world.

You're in a freaking apache, there really is no excuse, you have superior weaponry and targeting systems.

For the guys on the ground, seeing those helicopters turn away must've been the worst feeling in the world.

RPG-7's have a 4% chance of hitting a slowly moving 5x2.5 meter panel at 500 meters; an Apache can engage a target over 3 kilometers away. It isn't that fucking hard to understand. The pussy Dutch just stayed over 5000 meters in the air because they were afraid while the men on the ground were getting killed. If this was an Israeli or American pilot no one would be defending them.

[QUOTE=TH89;25560968]I think you might be understating the odds. They destroyed two helicopters that day and crippled a third. [/QUOTE] I was referring to Apaches, not Black Hawks, it was a poorly structured sentence.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;25561036]And Soldiers are not designed to withstand bullets.[/QUOTE] Agreed! I was just responding specifically to the newspaper's implication that apaches can just shrug off small arms fire. At least 9 Apaches have been shot down by small arms fire in the Iraq war alone.

Apache's don't have that much armored plating... a single 7.62 round in the right spot can bring down an apache, (Although you'll never see it happen) and it doesn't have to be the Pilot's head either, The Apache's could have easily engaged with 30mm from 5000m, and under such circumstances, I don't see why they didn't

[QUOTE=RBM11;25561440]RPG-7's have a 4% chance of hitting a slowly moving 5x2.5 meter panel at 500 meters; an Apache can engage a target over 3 kilometers away. It isn't that fucking hard to understand. The pussy Dutch just stayed over 5000 meters in the air because they were afraid while the men on the ground were getting killed. If this was an Israeli or American pilot no one would be defending them.[/QUOTE] Can the rockets even travel 5000 meters?

We're all battle analysts.

[QUOTE=TH89;25561462]Agreed! I was just responding specifically to the newspaper's implication that apaches can just shrug off small arms fire. At least 9 Apaches have been shot down by small arms fire in the Iraq war alone.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but they were either because RPGs are sometimes classified as small arms fire or they shot it in the right place causing mechanical failure. There's also not a lot you can do with small arms fire at the 2000m ranges that Apaches can handle. They are relatively well armoured in critical areas and shooting it with an AK isn't going to bring it down in a hurry.

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25561551]Can the rockets even travel 5000 meters?[/QUOTE] Which rockets are you referring to?

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25561551]Can the rockets even travel 5000 meters?[/QUOTE] No. Depends on the warhead, but generally most RPG-7 warheads self destruct after 1000m

30mm Can be put on a target the size of a small building accurately from miles out... Hellfire Missiles, while usually used on hard targets, can hit within a a couple yards from even further.... RPGs...... Can't hit shit

[QUOTE=TH89;25561462]Agreed! I was just responding specifically to the newspaper's implication that apaches can just shrug off small arms fire. At least 9 Apaches have been shot down by small arms fire in the Iraq war alone.[/QUOTE] Man TH98 You sure a military expert you should be a 4 star general in Afghanistan

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;25561576]Which rockets are you referring to?[/QUOTE] RPG7 rockets, which I assume are about as low quality as it gets

[QUOTE=TheTalon;25561492]Apache's don't have that much armored plating... a single 7.62 round in the right spot can bring down an apache, (Although you'll never see it happen) and it doesn't have to be the Pilot's head either, The Apache's could have easily engaged with 30mm from 5000m, and under such circumstances, I don't see why they didn't[/QUOTE] haha implying a bunch of rag-tag radicals running around in the mountains and various locations can make such a shot on an apache.

[QUOTE=RG4ORDR;25561924]Man TH98 You sure a military expert you should be a 4 star general in Afghanistan[/QUOTE] I am a war consultant for CNN They read all my twitter twits

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25561972]RPG7 rockets, which I assume are about as low quality as it gets[/QUOTE] Cheap and easy to produce doesn't mean ineffective, they do their intended job well. Jaeger is right. [QUOTE=JaegerMonster;25561579]No. Depends on the warhead, but generally most RPG-7 warheads self destruct after 1000m[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TH89;25561990]I am a war consultant for CNN They read all my twitter twits[/QUOTE] Awesome [editline]21st October 2010[/editline] I don't believe you

Fuck the Dutch.

Pilots are pussies. Even if there was a chance they would be shot down (there wasn't) they should still have come down and helped. It's called war, just because you might not be safe doesn't mean you should just pull out. If anything just orbit them from a mile out while the gunner does all the work. Seriously RPG's aren't guided, if you can hit a tiny object a mile out traveling 100 miles an hour then you're a god among men.

You'd be a god among men if you could do that if the rocket moved straight, but according to every game ever they spiral like fuck

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25562090]You'd be a god among men if you could do that if the rocket moved straight, but according to every game ever they spiral like fuck[/QUOTE] If MW 2 is any indication you would be more likely to hit a target behind you than one mile away.

[QUOTE=Harland Mason;25559496]That's no reason at all to puss out and leave your allies for (possible) dead in a situation like that.[/QUOTE] Well gosh it must be easy to say that while sitting in your comfy chair and toasty house. Seriously everyone here is stupid

[QUOTE=s0beit;25562206]Well gosh it must be easy to say that while sitting in your comfy chair and toasty house. Seriously everyone here is stupid[/QUOTE] Good job faggot, you just made yourself look like a fucking moron. These people sign up, full well knowing that the line of work they do is dangerous. If they pussy the fuck out in face of danger while their allies are taking fire, they shouldn't even be in the military, get the fuck out and good day to you, sir.

[QUOTE=s0beit;25562206]Well gosh it must be easy to say that while sitting in your comfy chair and toasty house. Seriously everyone here is stupid[/QUOTE] They're sitting in a bulletproof warmachine a mile~ high up in the air, well out of the range of any of the Insurgent's laughable weapons

[QUOTE=s0beit;25562206]Well gosh it must be easy to say that while sitting in your comfy chair and toasty house. Seriously everyone here is stupid[/QUOTE] because?

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;25562252]Good job faggot, you just made yourself look like a fucking moron. These people sign up, full well knowing that the line of work they do is dangerous. If they pussy the fuck out in face of danger while their allies are taking fire, they shouldn't even be in the military, get the fuck out and good day to you, sir.[/QUOTE] So i suppose you have had military service? Or have been in a war for that matter? Nice language by the way, you really know how to look intelligent while giving people a wicked burn. [QUOTE=Tetracycline;25562264]They're sitting in a bulletproof warmachine a mile~ high up in the air, well out of the range of any of the Insurgent's laughable weapons[/QUOTE] Right, except for RPGs which it was well established earlier those helicopters are not immune from.