Australian solders left for dead in Afghanistan by Dutch Apache helicopters
267 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TH89;25559339]So, a retired soldier publishes a book, makes an inflammatory press release about how some Dutch helicopter pilots, in all probability, did what they were trained to do, and an Australian rag writes an even more inflammatory article about it.
Despite what they'd have you believe Apache helicopters are not designed to withstand RPGs[/QUOTE]
Oh man, I don't know if its just the bandwagon hate that sends the disagrees or what but how are you a shit poster AND a mod?
Needed to be said.
Those damn Dutch. Do they have no honour? would they rather have left them all for dead rather than 'risk' their helicopters? Aren't Apaches supposed to have some kind of pod within it to withstand a crash?
Yeah, everything that crosses the sound barrier produces a sonic boom due to the object punching through the pressure waves.
[QUOTE=bravehat;25576616]Yeah, everything that crosses the sound barrier produces a sonic boom due to the object punching through the pressure waves.[/QUOTE]
But then what's the sonic boom when people shoot guns? Is it the initial loudass sound?
you guys do realize that after a few hundred meters, RPG rounds self-destruct because it is assumed they missed their target. these guys were over 5000m, if anything, they could still have provided fire on the enemy and in general not be dicks.
[editline]22nd October 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25576665]But then what's the sonic boom when people shoot guns? Is it the initial loudass sound?[/QUOTE]
that's the bullet going supersonic.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;25575831]I see only one instance of soldiers believing that they saw a missile with the characteristics of a Stinger. Hell, what they describe of the Stinger could be easily attributed to more modern systems like Igla.[/QUOTE]
I was just talking about surface to air missiles in general, I wasn't trying to be that specific. But my point still stands.
To Tetra.
Nah you probably don't here it much just the explosion from the propellent.
Although the sonic boom might be part of that noise, sonic booms are pretty loud after all, jets aren't allowed to go super sonic over populated areas for the simple reason the boom can shatter glass so who knows.
[QUOTE=DamagePoint;25576701]I was just talking about surface to air missiles in general, I wasn't trying to be that specific. But my point still stands.[/QUOTE]
It's obvious that they've had quite a few SAMs to use. It's just with their scarcity that they reserve them to use in special situations.
I showed my dad this article. He works in MAINTENANCE on Apaches and has gone to Afghanistan before. He is in the US Air Force... He's a SMSgt so he knows what he's talking about.
he said that is total bull shit and now he is pissed and screaming obscenities at the Dutch.
An Apache is well and capable of stopping direct 12.7mm fire to the canopy glass, and can take an SA-7 Grail warhead and still limp back to base.
The SA-7 has a small warhead, but it says something about the durability of the Apache when it's not being constantly worked on.
I'd still rather be sitting in an AH-1Z.
Star Son, the Army operates Apaches, not the USAF.
They shouldn't have been Pilots in the first place if they're to scared to rescue friendly soldiers. Wow.
shit shit shit... I'm sorry that wasn't the right heli. I got it screwed up with another one. He DOES know about Apaches though since he still is bitching about it downstairs.
I just thought of something. He went to an Army outpost about a year ago so yeah I don't believe I'm mistaken. I'm would bet they had him work on Apaches also. There was some article I remember seeing in the Base News Paper about Apaches working routinely with the air force. google US Air Force Apache and you should find it. He doesn't OPERATE THEM but he works on maintenance of helicopters.
[QUOTE=Leg of Doom;25565727]Wow I didn't know Denmark are such pussies no one s going to want to help them now[/QUOTE]
Dutch is Netherlands, not Denmark you retard.
You guys overestimate the range of apaches and underestimate rpg's.
The taliban have become used to using the airburst setting on rpg's to damage and down a lot of helicopters, and even though apache's can take a lot of abuse, if you hit them in the right place it takes very little to disable them.
A lot of engagements with apache's are at closer ranges like this;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0EcDtK8QL4[/media]
I still think the pilots are cowards for not helping out.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25576665]But then what's the sonic boom when people shoot guns? Is it the initial loudass sound?[/QUOTE]
It gives off a sonic boom as long as it is firing. The difference between a jet and a bullet is that a bullet provides a much smaller sound. Rifles which fire supersonic rounds mean that silencers aren't particularly effective. Pistols rounds are often subsonic and silencers work best for them, along with subsonic rifles like the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSS_Vintorez]Russian VSS[/url] firing a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x39mm]heavier, slower round[/url].
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor#Subsonic_ammunition_versus_volume[/url]
A ton of people are making a ton of sense. These Apaches are mobile fortresses, in a sense. They've got guided, unguided rockets. Some have 40mm GLs and some have .50 caliber MGs on the nose. A good way they could've helped is done one quick strafe with the guns and the Hydra rockets, then RTB. Utter foolishness. And yes, I have posted many times in this thread and looked like an ass. I am sorry for that.
[QUOTE=TH89;25559658]Tell that to the Somalis.
[img_thumb]http://imgur.com/XfsEl.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
Hitting a Blackhawk hovering in place 200 feet in the air, after repeated shots =/= hitting a moving apache 2000 feet in the air
Despite what video games would have you believe, RPGs are [i]not[/i] capable anti-aircraft weapons.
The Dutch pilots were absolute cowards. Even a simple show of force - launching a couple rockets from a safe distance - would've heavily discouraged the attack.
Who knows, Insurgents are pretty dumb, maybe they wouldn't give a fuck if a super long range warmachine was in their vicinity
[QUOTE=DarkWolf2;25568221]ITT Everyone is a trained soldier, was there when it happened and had a clear view of everything that happened.[/QUOTE]
yeah, the vietnam war? never happened
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25576561]Do bullets sonic boom?[/QUOTE]
Sort of. They are very small, so the boom is not very large. But the bullets DO beat the sound of the gunshot to the target, so the sonic boom and the bang from the gunshot often blend together.
[QUOTE=TH89;25560968]I think you might be understating the odds. They destroyed two helicopters that day and crippled a third.
I don't know helicopters but I know journalism and I can tell you this article has pretty much the worst sourcing it's possible to have: a press release by a guy who needs publicity.[/QUOTE]
wow you know journalism that makes you really smart (not really)
[QUOTE=fox '09;25571848]Insurgent groups in afganistan use them for everything. *** that is all[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but you aren't going to be taking down an Apache that is 2000 meters off the ground with one of them.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;25581531]Yeah, but you aren't going to be taking down an Apache that is 2000 meters off the ground with one of them.[/QUOTE]
yes, but I was just trying to correct his post , wasn't really directed towards the topic .
[QUOTE=fox '09;25581588]yes, but I was just trying to correct his post , wasn't really directed towards the topic .[/QUOTE]
That was my post, and what was there to correct? Just because you think insurgents use RPGs for everything doesn't mean that they are good for everything.
I'm sorry, But why must people take 2 pilots actions or even one commanders actions as a whole countries actions? So [b]DON'T[/b] Blame the Dutch Army or the Country, Blame those pilots.
