• US Military Soldiers made to wear "Post Pregnancy Girth Strap on" to help empathize with Fem-Soldier
    271 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34857542]No he's not missing the fucking point, you're picking and choosing things. I theorise, that perhaps there's some misogyny in this. [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] Most women don't jump out of pregnancy like nothing happened. Not sure what pregnancies you've seen.[/QUOTE] And you don't understand how pregnancy in the military works, so allow me to give you the lowdown. When a woman becomes pregnant she is required to inform her command. Upon doing so she is put on a limited duty status where for the duration of her pregnancy and some time after she is undeployable. She is required to enroll in multiple classes to help teach them what to expect and to help them go through the emotions and changes that they will face. While not required by the marine corps, they are expected to continue PT at their own pace and to watch their own diet. After the childbirth they are given one month of convolecent leave to recover from the childbirth and to help arrange whatever changes need to be made to their life style. If they are a single mother they are given the option to 1. stay in active duty and have the child placed in child care 2. put the child up for adoption or send the child to a relative 3. leave the marine corps. If they are married they are to have the spouse take care of the child or place in childcare. Regardless they are required after the 1 month period to return to full duty and come back to work. They are given 6 additional months to get back into weight standards as well as ready their bodies to be back to basic conditioning. They are then fully eligible to be held responsible for their weight and PT scores. If they are not back to weight standards or score below the minimum PT score they are placed into the fat body platoon where they are forced to PT everyday for a week before they can retest, if they fail again they do it for another week up to a total of one month. If they are unable to achieve weight or pt standards, they are administratively separated.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;34857662]an't you take the word of two service members when it comes to this matter?/QUOTE] Wait who was the second one?
[QUOTE=Contag;34857673]that shows how little you know it's to recover after the normal vaginal tearing and subsequent stitching, or after an incision is made to increase the size of the vagina, rectoceles and plenty other of stuff not simply 'relaxing' I didn't think you had an infantry MOS anyway? [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] No because the service itself said it was a good thing[/QUOTE] I'm an aircrewmen on hueys. Pardon my simplification of a complicated matter Because brass with big shiney collars who look at numbers and listen to SNCO's that want to look good to get promoted said so. [editline]24th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Contag;34857698] Wait who was the second one?[/QUOTE] InvaderNouga, he's a corpsman.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857593]They don't go into PT straight out of maternity, they're given a month after childbirth to relax before they're expected to PT again. [/quote] Let me put this in simple terms that hopefully you can understand: Post-pregnancy weight loss is far different than just losing weight in general. If some women can do this on their own, good for them. Some may not know what to do. Some may have had C-Sec, which weaken them for a while, some may have post-birth medical issues. These all come together, which is why it's FAR more preferable to have a specialised process to usher mother soldiers in to bring them up to speed. It's also a lot better than shoving them out into the middle of the field to do male marine things, like punch each other or jerk each other off, or what the fuck ever is included in PT. [quote]The cold hard fact is that women have been doing this fine without this program, they get all the specific care they need already from a shit ton of other programs they already have put into play.[/quote] You can't call it cold hard fact unless you back it up. Sorry, you just can't. [quote]Suicide prevention training has nothing to do with promotion, physical fitness, or combat readiness. You're confusing preventative training that is mandatory for all with whats needed to get anywhere in the military.[/QUOTE] I'm not categorising anything, I'm speaking as a whole. Why should initiative be pick and choose inside the military? and not mandatory things that help your fellow man? I would argue mental health is as important to fitness and 'combat' readiness as anything else. Not that the military cares, you guys still allow neo-nazi's in your club. But no gay people.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;34857662]Can't you take the word of two service members when it comes to this matter? [/QUOTE] no because that's anecdotal.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857716] Because brass with big shiney collars [B]who look at numbers[/B] and listen to SNCO's that want to look good to get promoted said so.[/QUOTE] Is that supposed to be an insult? Aren't 'numbers' generally considered superior to some bullshit anecdotal evidence? [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] Not to say that your evidence is bullshit because it's yours, but because it's anecdotal and you're not even an NCO whose done this, or the report writer, or a previously pregnant marine and even then you can't possibly know what every other experience was like, unlike you were the report writer
[QUOTE=Contag;34857753]Is that supposed to be an insult? Aren't 'numbers' generally considered superior to some bullshit anecdotal evidence? [/QUOTE] they're trying to appeal to our anti-bureaucratic tendencies.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;34857662]Cold hard proof? Can't you take the word of two service members when it comes to this matter? For goodness sake I work in a hospital haha, and a main facet of my job is talking to pregnant and post partum women.[/QUOTE] Me and thisispain also work in the medical field. As I stated before, there may be a group of women who don't need it, if you state it as a 'cold hard fact', back it the fuck up. Anecdotes my love, do not really work when discrediting a programme.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34857732]Let me put this in simple terms that hopefully you can understand: Post-pregnancy weight loss is far different than just losing weight in general. If some women can do this on their own, good for them. Some may not know what to do. Some may have had C-Sec, which weaken them for a while, some may have post-birth medical issues. These all come together, which is why it's FAR more preferable to have a specialised process to usher mother soldiers in to bring them up to speed. It's also a lot better than shoving them out into the middle of the field to do male marine things, like punch each other or jerk each other off, or what the fuck ever is included in PT. You can't call it cold hard fact unless you back it up. Sorry, you just can't. I'm not categorising anything, I'm speaking as a whole. Why should initiative be pick and choose inside the military? and not mandatory things that help your fellow man? I would argue mental health is as important to fitness and 'combat' readiness as anything else. Not that the military cares, you guys still allow neo-nazi's in your club. But no gay people.[/QUOTE] What you're not getting is there are already things in effect for things like C-sections, and saying they don't know what to do is not truth. All women are told what they should do by their doctor, OBGYN, command, SNCOs, NCOs, and their support programs. 1. Helping your fellow man in the military is one aspect, but if you don't want to help yourself forcing you to wont do any good. The mental health aspect is handled completely different then physical aspect. 2. There aren't any neo-nazis in the corps. I assume you're poking at the SS bolts being used by the scout snipers, something that you as a civilian take as face value. 3. Gays are allowed in the military, and just like the rest of the country we're having a hard time accepting that. [editline]24th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Contag;34857753]Is that supposed to be an insult? Aren't 'numbers' generally considered superior to some bullshit anecdotal evidence? [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] Not to say that your evidence is bullshit because it's yours, but because it's anecdotal and you're not even an NCO whose done this, or the report writer, or a previously pregnant marine and even then you can't possibly know what every other experience was like, unlike you were the report writer[/QUOTE] Allow me to get what a pregnant marine has to say about this, they will give you a better understanding from their prospective.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857787]All women are told what they should do by their doctor, OBGYN, command, SNCOs, NCOs, and their support programs. [/QUOTE] yes and i can assure you any OBGYN worth their diploma will agree that PPPT is a good thing.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857677]And you don't understand how pregnancy in the military works, so allow me to give you the lowdown.[/QUOTE] Biology doesn't stop at your job description. I don't give a shit what your idiotic procedures say.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34857782]Me and thisispain also work in the medical field. As I stated before, there may be a group of women who don't need it, if you state it as a 'cold hard fact', back it the fuck up. Anecdotes my love, do not really work when discrediting a programme.[/QUOTE] You work in the medical field, we work on the military field. What you do in your lab coats and operating rooms is vastly different from what we do in the dirt and sand. I think we know a thing or to more about how are jobs work, what our expectations are, what programs are offered to us to allow us to cope with whatever, and what we need to do to be successful. [editline]24th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;34857828]yes and i can assure you any OBGYN worth their diploma will agree that PPPT is a good thing.[/QUOTE] I can also assure you that they'll say while it's helpful its not necessarily to make a full recovery. [editline]24th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34857851]Biology doesn't stop at your job description. I don't give a shit what your idiotic procedures say.[/QUOTE] Our idiotic procedures are what makes us the effective units we are.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857861]You work in the medical field, we work on the military field. What you do in your lab coats and operating rooms is vastly different from what we do in the dirt and sand. I think we know a thing or to more about how are jobs work, what our expectations are, what programs are offered to us to allow us to cope with whatever, and what we need to do to be successful.[/QUOTE] well we're talking about people's bodies. they don't change in "the dirt and sand". [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857861]I can also assure you that they'll say while it's helpful its not necessarily to make a full recovery.[/QUOTE] it's not for making a full recovery, it's to ease into a physical condition safely that abides by US Army standards.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34857782]Me and thisispain also work in the medical field. As I stated before, there may be a group of women who don't need it, if you state it as a 'cold hard fact', back it the fuck up. Anecdotes my love, do not really work when discrediting a programme.[/QUOTE] you work or are you students? When was the last time you helped resuscitate a coded patient?
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857787]What you're not getting is there are already things in effect for things like C-sections, and saying they don't know what to do is not truth. All women are told what they should do by their doctor, OBGYN, command, SNCOs, NCOs, and their support programs. [/quote] Commanders, Non-Commissioned officers, soldiers, whatever, are NOT medical professionals. Their word should not matter. [quote]1. Helping your fellow man in the military is one aspect, but if you don't want to help yourself forcing you to wont do any good. The mental health aspect is handled completely different then physical aspect.[/quote] Again, doesn't matter if you're going on about how people should only take initiative. [quote]2. There aren't any neo-nazis in the corps. I assume you're poking at the SS bolts being used by the scout snipers, something that you as a civilian take as face value. [/quote] Nazi symbolism is nazi symbolism. I don't need a pretty uniform to realise that's dumb. but no, that's not my point. [url]http://www.salon.com/2009/06/15/neo_nazis_army/[/url] first article on google from searching nazi's in us military. Not hard to find. [quote]3. Gays are allowed in the military, and just like the rest of the country we're having a hard time accepting that.[/quote] As of now they are, and DADT won't stop discrimination. Regardless, I was being facetious. [quote]Allow me to get what a pregnant marine has to say about this, they will give you a better understanding from their prospective.[/QUOTE] Anecdotal does not have a hold on this.
[Quote=Lcpl Kidder] Personally I think if they were to do something like that, rather than attempt to train NCOs they should have females who have had children to mentor those who are having a kid. The program is a good idea, but it doesn't exactly fulfill what is needed. Mentorship from females would suit the situation better, as well as help motivate the women in all aspects. [/quote] She went on to speak about how women take everything differently and that for some women its more difficult to get back into duty because of the choices they made while pregnant. That's her two cents.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34857975]Commanders, Non-Commissioned officers, soldiers, whatever, are NOT medical professionals. Their word should not matter. Again, doesn't matter if you're going on about how people should only take initiative. Nazi symbolism is nazi symbolism. I don't need a pretty uniform to realise that's dumb. but no, that's not my point. [URL]http://www.salon.com/2009/06/15/neo_nazis_army/[/URL] first article on google from searching nazi's in us military. Not hard to find. As of now they are, and DADT won't stop discrimination. Regardless, I was being facetious. Anecdotal does not have a hold on this.[/QUOTE]you just ruined your credibility in regards to how much you think you know about the military. To be an Officer you need a bachelors, masters, PHD, or an MD. EVERY medical officer has a degree. Everyone in the nurse corps and medical service corps have degrees they earned as a civilian or through military funding. These people know what they're doing in regards to medicine. Even NCO's such as independent duty corpsman have degrees.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857861]You work in the medical field, we work on the military field. What you do in your lab coats and operating rooms is vastly different from what we do in the dirt and sand.[/quote] Uh, no it's not. This is pregnancy, in a non-hostile environment. I don't see what the difference is. [quote]I think we know a thing or to more about how are jobs work, what our expectations are, what programs are offered to us to allow us to cope with whatever, and what we need to do to be successful.[/quote] I am not denying your procedures don't say what to do. I'm just saying they're idiotic. [quote]I can also assure you that they'll say while it's helpful its not necessarily to make a full recovery.[/quote] It's also not necessary to give you comfier beds like you were talking about earlier. But it would be nice. [quote]Our idiotic procedures are what makes us the effective units we are.[/QUOTE] Yeah okay, sure, PPPT is going to effect that.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34857975]Commanders, Non-Commissioned officers, soldiers, whatever, are NOT medical professionals. Their word should not matter. Again, doesn't matter if you're going on about how people should only take initiative. Nazi symbolism is nazi symbolism. I don't need a pretty uniform to realise that's dumb. but no, that's not my point. [url]http://www.salon.com/2009/06/15/neo_nazis_army/[/url] first article on google from searching nazi's in us military. Not hard to find. As of now they are, and DADT won't stop discrimination. Regardless, I was being facetious. Anecdotal does not have a hold on this.[/QUOTE] They're just repeating what the doctors say. Obviously what the doctor says is law, and they base their statements off of that. My point is they remind the person what they must do constantly. Initiative when it comes to the physical aspect The army takes people with felonies, this doesn't surprise me one bit. The corps, however, does not. It doesn't allow any kind of gang affiliations whatsoever.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;34858059]you just ruined your credibility in regards to how much you think you know about the military. To be an Officer you need a bachelors, masters, PHD, or an MD. EVERY medical officer has a degree. Everyone in the nurse corps and medical corps have degrees they earned as a civilian or through military funding. These people know what they're doing in regards to medicine.[/QUOTE] Not every group he pointed out there are medical professionals. [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34858073]They're just repeating what the doctors say. Obviously what the doctor says is law, and they base their statements off of that. My point is they remind the person what they must do constantly. Initiative when it comes to the physical aspect The army takes people with felonies, this doesn't surprise me one bit. The corps, however, does not. It doesn't allow any kind of gang affiliations whatsoever.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_presence_in_the_United_States_military[/url]
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857861]You work in the medical field, we work on the military field. What you do in your lab coats and operating rooms is vastly different from what we do in the dirt and sand. I think we know a thing or to more about how are jobs work, what our expectations are, what programs are offered to us to allow us to cope with whatever, and what we need to do to be successful.[/QUOTE] I love this attitude in engineering, because you're legally allowed to show up on site and tell the ignorant motherfucker arguing against science to shove it up his ass and do the work yourself. Too bad the services aren't as big on having civvies prove their hoo-rah horseshit is just that. [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34857861]Our idiotic procedures are what makes us the effective units we are.[/QUOTE] Your idiotic procedures are [I]idiotic.[/I] Good thing [URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/04/local/la-me-bootcamp-injuries-20111104"]times are a-changin'.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34858093]Not every group he pointed out there are medical professionals. [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_presence_in_the_United_States_military[/url][/QUOTE] The corps doesn't openly allow it, unlike the army. You can't prevent beliefs that are hidden in someones head. [editline]24th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Xenocidebot;34858120]I love this attitude in engineering, because you're legally allowed to show up on site and tell the ignorant motherfucker arguing against science to shove it up his ass and do the work yourself. Too bad the services aren't as big on having civvies prove their hoo-rah horseshit is just that. Your idiotic procedures are [I]idiotic.[/I] Good thing [URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/04/local/la-me-bootcamp-injuries-20111104"]times are a-changin'.[/URL][/QUOTE] Civvies looking in don't see the full picture us military have, just like I have no clue on anything involving engineering. Our procedures change when we see a fault. If it's not broken why fix it? In that case it was proven that the high injury rate was detrimental to the training and well being of the recruits, thus procedure changed.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34858093]Not every group he pointed out there are medical professionals. [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_presence_in_the_United_States_military[/url][/QUOTE] Doesn't change the fact that you just said people who have earned their salt and some who have been practicing medicine longer than you've been alive aren't medical professionals.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;34858218]Doesn't change the fact that you just said people who have earned their salt and some who have been practicing medicine longer than you've been alive aren't medical professionals.[/QUOTE] Yes, every single person in group of, and I quote, "command, SNCOs, NCOs, and their support programs." Have been practising medicine longer than I've been alive. Wow, military standards have fucking gone up.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34858254]Yes, every single person in group of, and I quote, "command, SNCOs, NCOs, and their support programs." Have been practising medicine longer than I've been alive. Wow, military standards have fucking gone up.[/QUOTE] The doctors have been practicing medicine for a very long time. The command, SNCOs, NCOs, and support programs reiterate what the doctors have told them to make sure they know what they need to do and motivate them while they're in the process.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34858122]Civvies looking in don't see the full picture us military have, just like I have no clue on anything involving engineering. Our procedures change when we see a fault. If it's not broken why fix it? In that case it was proven that the high injury rate was detrimental to the training and well being of the recruits, thus procedure changed.[/QUOTE] Clearly, procedure is changing to accommodate post-pregnant women. [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34858278]The doctors have been practicing medicine for a very long time. The command, SNCOs, NCOs, and support programs reiterate what the doctors have told them to make sure they know what they need to do and motivate them while they're in the process.[/QUOTE] This is implying all medical professionals regarding the military agree with your position.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;34858278]The command, SNCOs, NCOs, and support programs reiterate what the doctors have told them to make sure they know what they need to do and motivate them while they're in the process.[/QUOTE] I thought they were just brass with big shiney collars and SNCO's that lie to look good to get promoted
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34858254]Yes, every single person in group of, and I quote, "command, SNCOs, NCOs, and their support programs." Have been practising medicine longer than I've been alive. Wow, military standards have fucking gone up.[/QUOTE] You should be a little more specific when you choose your words next time then. From what I read you said Commanders, NCO's (which includes Corpsman), soldiers etc are not medical professionals. But you know what? You're absolutely right about all of this. You're the professional here, so I'll stop arguing with you and just continue working my 12 hr a day menial job at your local Naval Hospital(on an inpatient unit nonetheless ugh I hate night shift on the psychiatric unit all the geriatrics act weird). While I'm at it I'll let my Lieutenant know that his PHD in Psychology doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Because a med student said so.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34858299]Clearly, procedure is changing to accommodate post-pregnant women. [editline]25th February 2012[/editline] This is implying all medical professionals regarding the military agree with your position.[/QUOTE] What the medical professional decides is best is what goes. If for whatever reason the medical professional decides that a program of this type is best of the woman in question then the command will abide, but that is considered an isolated case as in its what works best for that woman. It is not required across the board for all women to do.
[quote] his PHD in Psychology doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.[/quote] that would be accurate [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qyhZ9_eXCHM/S9IeW6AbnLI/AAAAAAAAE-s/AzMxu3qsI5g/s400/michel_foucault.jpg[/img]
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