Israeli forces shoot, kill 12-year-old Palestinian boy near Hebron
68 replies, posted
[QUOTE=sgman91;45682010]The mass of people saying that Israel is attempting to commit genocide on the Palestinians, the people reading and taking sources like Ma'an News at face value, etc. all point to an ideological dislike of Israel, not a factual dislike.[/QUOTE]
and you complain of strawmen lmao
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;45681505]according to another source: [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/10/israel-west-bank_n_5665577.html[/url]
it's a tragedy, but it sounds more likely that he was hit by a stray bullet from the israelis than deliberate malice on their part.[/QUOTE]
While your devotion to your faith that IDF is capable of engaging in honest, independent and self-regulatory actions with regards to potential unlawful killings is admirable, it indicates a character of willingness to accept anything given to you. It is weak.
Israeli military kills Palestinian teen this May. After the report of death, Israel delivers their typically-wrapped PR bullshit to the press expecting exoneration. Even went to say that the security footage was "staged"
[quote]The Israeli military denied responsibility, saying it used only "non-violent means" to disperse the crowd. The Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon claimed "it was a life-threatening situation, so the officers acted accordingly."[/quote]
[quote]
[The Israeli army said eight Palestinians killed this week in a military operation were "suspected militants," but there is no way to be certain. The rest were unarmed civilians.][/quote]
Uh oh. But [URL="http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/05/22/pkg-watson-4a-west-bank-teens-shot.cnn.html"]CNN camera's were rolling[/URL], revealing yet another act of Israeli mendacity. Stop willfully eating their bullshit, they are not a credible source by any means as long as they remain the occupier.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45682041]While your devotion to your faith that IDF is capable of engaging in honest, independent and self-regulatory actions with regards to potential unlawful killings is admirable, it indicates a character of willingness to accept anything given to you. It is weak.
Israeli military kills Palestinian teen this May. After the report of death, Israel delivers their typically-wrapped PR bullshit to the press expecting exoneration. Even went to say that the security footage was "staged"
Uh oh. But [URL="http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/05/22/pkg-watson-4a-west-bank-teens-shot.cnn.html"]CNN camera's were rolling[/URL], revealing yet another act of Israeli mendacity. Stop willfully eating their bullshit, they are not a credible source by any means as long as they remain the occupier.[/QUOTE]
You're too busy eating Palestinian (especially Hamas) propaganda bullshit to talk.
I don't usually use personal insults, but I really feel like this was a special case that called for it. When a moderator falls so low as to personally attack people they need to get called out.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45682050]You're too busy eating Ma'an New's bullshit to talk.[/QUOTE]
can you do nothing but shitpost in these threads.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45682050]You're too busy eating Palestinian (especially Hamas) propaganda bullshit to talk.
I don't usually use personal insults, but I really feel like this was a special case that called for it. When a moderator falls so low as to personally attack people they need to get called out.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but when you consistently try to parrot a war criminal-like military, rush to make explanations for their actions, you deserve no respect. It doesn't take a moderator to tell you that.
The difference between "eating propaganda bullshit" is that when I make my assertions, I post internationally reputable, independent (and sometimes pro-Israeli) governmental sources. Whereas you and others post direct-Israeli sources that have been proven time and time again to be inaccurate.
Never have I posted Hamas, or a statement from any Palestinian government as a "source" to any of my arguments. All NGOs. The only time I posted something that contained a statement from Hamas was from an Israeli source reiterating Hamas' viewpoint following claims of soldier's disputed abduction. Yet, despite the BBC/NGOs/UN I use to source my arguments, and the "IDF spokesperson" you use to source yours, it is funny when you accuse me of eating propaganda.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45682064]can you do nothing but shitpost in these threads.[/QUOTE]
And you're doing so much better then?
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45682153]Sorry but when you consistently try to parrot a war criminal-like military, rush to make explanations for their actions, you deserve no respect. It doesn't take a moderator to tell you that.
The difference between "eating propaganda bullshit" is that when I make my assertions, I post internationally reputable, independent (and sometimes pro-Israeli) governmental sources. Whereas you and others post direct-Israeli sources that have been proven time and time again to be inaccurate.
Never have I posted Hamas, or a statement from any Palestinian government as a "source" to any of my arguments. All NGOs. The only time I posted something that contained a statement from Hamas was from an Israeli source reiterating following the soldier's disputed abduction.[/QUOTE]
Quote where I've posted a direct-Israeli source. (I don't believe I ever have)
[QUOTE]Never have I posted Hamas, or a statement from any Palestinian government as a "source" to any of my arguments. All NGOs. The only time I posted something that contained a statement from Hamas was from an Israeli source reiterating following the soldier's disputed abduction.[/QUOTE]
Every death count by the health service in Gaza is a Hamas source.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45682166]
Every death count by the health service in Gaza is a Hamas source.[/QUOTE]
So you are saying that the almost 2000 dead in Gaza is just propaganda and not true?
Correct me if i understood you wrong.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45682166]Quote where I've posted a direct-Israeli source. (I don't believe I ever have)
Every death count by the health service in Gaza is a Hamas source.[/QUOTE]
Is the UN run by Hamas too? Because the UN says the civilian casualty figure is from [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/30/world/meast/mideast-crisis/"]70-80%[/URL] during the beginning of the war. (Note that it is typical for Israel to indiscriminately kill civilians primarily at the beginning of the conflict, and then begin to try to later balance it out near the end with Hamas-targeted killings. The proportion of civilians or children dead during the first week of the conflict with Israel is most important.)
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45682041]While your devotion to your faith that IDF is capable of engaging in honest, independent and self-regulatory actions with regards to potential unlawful killings is admirable, it indicates a character of willingness to accept anything given to you. It is weak.[/QUOTE]
please cut the bullshit language. i don't care for this part
[quote]Israeli military kills Palestinian teen this May. After the report of death, Israel delivers their typically-wrapped PR bullshit to the press expecting exoneration. Even went to say that the security footage was "staged"
Uh oh. But [URL="http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/05/22/pkg-watson-4a-west-bank-teens-shot.cnn.html"]CNN camera's were rolling[/URL], revealing yet another act of Israeli mendacity. Stop willfully eating their bullshit, they are not a credible source by any means as long as they remain the occupier.[/quote]
nowhere in the source you sent me do the israelis say that the security footage was staged
[QUOTE=Bucketboy;45682204]So you are saying that the almost 2000 dead in Gaza is just propaganda and not true?
Correct me if i understood you wrong.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying: 1) If the Gazan health service is the only source, then we can't know for sure and 2) The number of those that are civilians is impossible to know. Someone already posted the BBC article talking about how the "civilians" are disproportionately males of fighting age.
[editline]13th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45682217]Is the UN run by Hamas too? Because the UN says the civilian casualty figure is from [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/30/world/meast/mideast-crisis/"]70-80%[/URL] during the beginning of the war. (Note that it is typical for Israel to indiscriminately kill civilians primarily at the beginning of the conflict, and then begin to try to later balance it out near the end with Hamas-targeted killings. The proportion of civilians dead during the first week of the conflict with Israel is most important)[/QUOTE]
It's hard to know when the article you cited doesn't actually cite their own numbers. Where has the UN actually said that and what was it based on?
[QUOTE=sgman91;45682219]Someone already posted the BBC article talking about how the "civilians" are disproportionately males of fighting age.[/QUOTE]
They're normally the age group that goes out onto the streets for food, water, puts out fires, drives ambulances so on and so on.
[QUOTE=Emperorconor;45682218]please cut the bullshit language. i don't care for this part
nowhere in the source you sent me do the israelis say that the security footage was staged[/QUOTE]
[URL]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592000[/URL]
"IDF says forgery likely in video showing Palestinian teens' deaths"
It is like whenever there is a war crime allegation against the state of Israel, they close their eyes and randomly choose and rotate between:
1) Forgery/Staged
2) Self-inflicted
3) Justified.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45682219]
It's hard to know when the article you cited doesn't actually cite their own numbers. Where has the UN actually said that and what was it based on?[/QUOTE]
Did you read it?
[quote]The number of militants killed is unclear, but the United Nations estimates that 70% to 80% of the dead are civilians.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45682298]Did you read it?[/QUOTE]
Did you read my post?
"article you cited doesn't actually cite their own numbers. Where has the UN actually said that and what was it based on?"
They don't cite where the UN actually said that. Who knows when we can't examine the data that it came from. The number of times so called "reputable" sources quote numbers from studies with poor methodologies makes it impossible to take any number at face value without examining the actual source. In this case that would be the UN report.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45682339]They [the CNN] don't cite where the UN actually said that. [/QUOTE]
There's occam's razor which dictates that most likely, CNN isn't bullshitting, that they were merely re-reporting a statement by the the UN which is that Israel actually killed 70-80% of the civilians.
Then there's the corrupted pro-Israeli logic that questions if the UN even said that. Questions if CNN is merely just falsely-impersonating the United Nations so they can advance their secret pro-Hamas agenda.
[url]http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48330#.U-vj0bEUfU4[/url]
July 23rd, 2014
[quote]“In Gaza, 443 or 74 per cent of the killed are civilians,” said Kyung-Wha Kang, Assistant Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and UN Deputy Emergency Relief Coordinator, [/quote]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45682420]There's occam's razor which dictates that most likely, CNN isn't bullshitting, that they were merely re-reporting a statement by the the UN which is that Israel actually killed 70-80% of the civilians.
Then there's the corrupted pro-Israeli logic that questions if the UN even said that. Questions if CNN is merely just falsely-impersonating the United Nations so they can advance their secret pro-Hamas agenda.
[url]http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48330#.U-vj0bEUfU4[/url]
July 23rd, 2014[/QUOTE]
I'm not questioing that the UN said it, but how the UN got that information. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they just quoted the Gazan Health Service's numbers verbatim.
Also, that quote is from a speech given to the UN council, not a report created by the UN. The guy giving the statement never even attempts to mention where he's getting his numbers. Here's the whole speech: [url]http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/assistant-secretary-general-humanitarian-affairs-and-deputy[/url]
Stop retroactively editing your post after I already replied to them to try to shift the original focus-point that I was addressing (so it looks like I wasn't replying on-topic). It is deceitful and painfully obvious.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45682557]Stop retroactively editing your post after I already replied to them to try to shift the original focus-point that I was addressing (so it looks like I wasn't replying on-topic). It is deceitful and painfully obvious.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure which specific post you're talking about, but that has never been my intended purpose. I do try and clarify myself for future readers if I feel that my post was poorly written.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45681889]The majority of FP, including a certain SH moderator, are anti-Israel. Ma'an News agrees with them. So they don't mind it.[/QUOTE]
I sort of figured it was because its stupid to ban any source of news because people can make up their own minds. I guess thats plausible too, though.
Haven't really read the thread in detail, but I don't understand what there's to argue about. The act of a soldier caused a child to die, whether it was intentional or not it's a tragedy.
Trying to convince someone that a source is bad or good, or pointing out fallacies doesn't really alter the state of reality where thousands of people have died, a majority of them civilians, at the hands of a foreign government's soldiers.
[QUOTE=RosettaStoned;45683093]I sort of figured it was because its stupid to ban any source of news because people can make up their own minds. I guess thats plausible too, though.[/QUOTE]
I would be fine with that except for the fact that they've banned plenty of other sources.
[QUOTE=Bucketboy;45681072]He was hiding rockets in his pockets.[/QUOTE]
Remind me to never go to Israel.
I don't want to get shot for the rocket in my pocket.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;45683229]Haven't really read the thread in detail, but I don't understand what there's to argue about. The act of a soldier caused a child to die, whether it was intentional or not it's a tragedy.
Trying to convince someone that a source is bad or good, or pointing out fallacies doesn't really alter the state of reality where thousands of people have died, a majority of them civilians, at the hands of a foreign government's soldiers.[/QUOTE]
"Israeli soldier shoots a child in the back for no reason."
Is very different from:
"Child hit during Israeli fire at violet riot."
[QUOTE=sgman91;45683250]"Israeli soldier shoots a child in the back for no reason."
Is very different from:
"Child hit during Israeli fire at violet riot."[/QUOTE]
You don't know its a violent riot though
you're just taking the IDF PR departments spin on it as fact.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45683250]"Israeli soldier shoots a child in the back for no reason."
Is very different from:
"Child hit during Israeli fire at violet riot."[/QUOTE]
you cant moan about sources if youre gonna use IDF quotes
[QUOTE=sgman91;45683250]"Israeli soldier shoots a child in the back for no reason."
Is very different from:
"Child hit during Israeli fire at violet riot."[/QUOTE]
I don't know where you got your title but I'm seeing "Israeli forces shoot, kill 12-year-old Palestinian boy near Hebron". They did shot and they did kill a child. The article doesn't mention that the soldier was targeting the boy.
Doesn't seem as loaded as you make it seem.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45683250]"Israeli soldier shoots a child in the back for no reason."
Is very different from:
"Child hit during Israeli fire at violet riot."[/QUOTE]
The source at hand definitely makes it sound more like brutal savagery than plain misfire.
[QUOTE=Gentry;45683308]You don't know its a violent riot though
you're just taking the IDF PR departments spin on it as fact.[/QUOTE]
Judging from how many there've been, it's not unsafe to take the claim that it was likely a violent riot. Seriously, they happen-- and often.
[QUOTE=sgman91;45683250]"Israeli soldier shoots a child in the back for no reason."
Is very different from:
"Child hit during Israeli fire at violet riot."[/QUOTE]
No such thing as a "riot" in the West Bank, there are demonstrations and uprisings though. Its a shitty loaded term due to how it attempts to criminalize people who have lived their entire lives under Israeli occupation and oppression when they've clearly had enough.
[QUOTE=Monkah;45683355]The source at hand definitely makes it sound more like brutal savagery than plain misfire.
Judging from how many there've been, it's not unsafe to take the claim that it was likely a violent riot. Seriously, they happen-- and often.[/QUOTE]
All sources said that there small group of young kids throwing rocks.
Hardly a ~violent riot~ that needed lethal force to subdue.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;45683346]I don't know where you got your title but I'm seeing "Israeli forces shoot, kill 12-year-old Palestinian boy near Hebron". They did shot and they did kill a child. The article doesn't mention that the soldier was targeting the boy.
Doesn't seem as loaded as you make it seem.[/QUOTE]
[quote]
HEBRON (Ma'an) -- A 12-year old Palestinian boy was shot dead by Israeli soldiers while playing in front of his home in al-Fawwar refugee camp south of Hebron in the southern West Bank early Sunday, medics told Ma'an.
Palestinian medical sources at Hebron's al-Ahli Hospital told Ma'an that Khalil Muhammad Ahmad al-Anati arrived at the hospital after being shot in the back.
[/quote]Sgman91 definitely has a point when he says that the article makes it sound as if it's plain murder. Honestly, judging by the first two paragraphs-- which is all most people even read-- one would easily be led to assume that the events here are plain murder.
edit: In 2013 alone, around 116 people were injured due to Palestinian rock-throwing. It's not harmless-- especially when we're talking the heavier and sharper ones.
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