FOX: Majority of Likely Voters Agree 'Socialist' Accurately Describes Obama
557 replies, posted
kdabr, what is that courier analogy for?
By the way, if you ever ship overseas or to Canada please use USPS. FedEx/UPS/DHL charge outrageous brokerage fees.
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291030]
Im saying that it cant be compared at the time of its inception...because it was all alone[/QUOTE]
Yes it very well can be. Just because something started alone doesn't mean it can't be contrasted to things then. That would make so many things we do really logically impossible.
[QUOTE]I just can't believe you think it works [/QUOTE]
Have you ever had to deal with the fucking USPS?
They are some of the laziest people on the face of the earth, all because of their federally protected jobs. Fire a black guy? RACIST! Fire a woman? SEXIST! Fire a white male? RELIGOUS/AGE DESCRIMINATION
Why am I pro lasseiz faire? Because if the same people that ran the DMV ran industry, we would be so fucked
[editline]09:36PM[/editline]
[QUOTE]Yes it very well can be. Just because something started alone doesn't mean it can't be contrasted to things then. That would make so many things we do really logically impossible.[/QUOTE]
How can you say that it wasnt progressive at its inception? It was the only representative government...
[editline]09:37PM[/editline]
the courier analogy was to illustrate the government's general incompetence...they do nothing well
I never had a problem with the USPS.
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291193]Have you ever had to deal with the fucking USPS?
They are some of the laziest people on the face of the earth, all because of their federally protected jobs. Fire a black guy? RACIST! Fire a woman? SEXIST! Fire a white male? RELIGOUS/AGE DESCRIMINATION
[/QUOTE]
Both Purolator and Canada Post are owned by the Canadian government and they do a better job than any of the private ones. Our government also runs Medicare (the publicly funded health insurance company of which we all belong to) near flawlessly.
The median postal worker salary averages to $52,200...plus a pension...for carrying mail...teachers don't make that
This would be totally OK if the USPS was breaking even, but they aren't. They hemorrhage money. FedEx offers a better quality service with no tax payer money required. Their is no motive to improve the system because the workers are guaranteed an easy, well-paying job for life
[editline]09:46PM[/editline]
Then can you get Canada Post to come down here?
Maybe the problem isnt the American Government...maybe its just Americans
D:
[editline]09:48PM[/editline]
In case the $52000 salary isnt easily related to...that's 25 bucks an hour to do nothing. There are so many mexicans who work so much harder than that and are lucky to make a third of that...
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291385]The median postal worker salary averages to $52,200...plus a pension...for carrying mail...teachers don't make that[/quote]
That's horrible and oh so irrelevant.
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291385]This would be totally OK if the USPS was breaking even, but they aren't. They hemorrhage money. FedEx offers a better quality service with no tax payer money required. Their is no motive to improve the system because the workers are guaranteed an easy, well-paying job for life[/quote]
FedEx offers a different service. You're not going to get a private courier to deliver a single letter, are you? No, you head down to the post office.
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291385]Then can you get Canada Post to come down here?
Maybe the problem isnt the American Government...maybe its just Americans
D:[/QUOTE]
Canada Post hands off to USPS at the border and vice-versa, I believe. I've had nothing but smooth deliveries in either direction. Same deal with something I ordered from Malmö that came through the Swedish postal service (Posten AB or something). I can't think of a single instance of a government-owned courier screwing something up for me.
[QUOTE]FedEx offers a different service. You're not going to get a private courier to deliver a single letter, are you? No, you head down to the post office.[/QUOTE]
Y'know why? Its illegal for anyone but the USPS to deliver non-urgent letters...
And I was really talking more about packages/parcels
[editline]09:52PM[/editline]
I'd like to see what FedEx could do if they were allowed to deliver non-urgent letters
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291501]
I'd like to see what FedEx could do if they were allowed to deliver non-urgent letters[/QUOTE]
They'd get bogged down and shit themselves.
They always make my packages round, I also would like to see what shape they could make letters
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291193]Have you ever had to deal with the fucking USPS?
They are some of the laziest people on the face of the earth, all because of their federally protected jobs. Fire a black guy? RACIST! Fire a woman? SEXIST! Fire a white male? RELIGOUS/AGE DESCRIMINATION
Why am I pro lasseiz faire? Because if the same people that ran the DMV ran industry, we would be so fucked
[editline]09:36PM[/editline]
How can you say that it wasnt progressive at its inception? It was the only representative government...
[editline]09:37PM[/editline]
the courier analogy was to illustrate the government's general incompetence...they do nothing well[/QUOTE]
Because the term progressive can ever only mean one thing right? No, progressive changes at the times, but it never means the same thing, it just means changes. And changes then, that create new governments and systems, still fall on a scale that we can see now with historical contexts in mind.
[QUOTE]That's horrible and oh so irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
This was more to illustrate what a travesty it is when the government goes crazy and decides that paper lifters should make more than the people that will inspire and arm the next generation of professionals in the workforce
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291561]This was more to illustrate what a travesty it is when the government goes crazy and decides that paper lifters should make more than the people that will inspire and arm the next generation of professionals in the workforce[/QUOTE]
If bureaucracy was never done, people would cheat for as much money as they could. Oh, and don't start a tax argument either.
[QUOTE]They always make my packages round, I also would like to see what shape they could make letters [/QUOTE]
The USPS rips my letters to shreds...often
I often ship computers with limited padding and they always come out fine with FedEx ground...I cant say the same for USPS
[QUOTE]They'd get bogged down and shit themselves.[/QUOTE]
Why? Their business practices are entirely scalable...esp. if UPS and DHL helped em out lol. Thats the problem with the USPS...they are bogged down with crusty mail carrier pensions...they are a government funded monopoly
Correct me if I'm wrong kdabr, but your argument is that the government is incompetent and that private industry can do better.
Do you feel Blackwater does a better job than the US military?
Do you feel mall rent-a-cops do a better job than the police force?
[QUOTE]Do you feel Blackwater does a better job than the US military?[/QUOTE]
The Government is incompetent for hiring Blackwater. They pay outrageos fees and get stuck with crazed civillian killers...Lockheed and Raytheon do great work. There are lots of flattened huts in Iraq to prove it.
[QUOTE]Do you feel mall rent-a-cops do a better job than the police force? [/QUOTE]
For what they do, yes. Police should not be used to patrol malls. And Mall Cops have been not given any sort of legal charter. They are not hired as law enforcers; they are hired as theft deterrents.
Dont confuse this [QUOTE]the government is incompetent and that private industry can do better[/QUOTE] with me saying that we should live in an industrial-anarchy state
Quote from John Locke's 2nd treatise of civil government to follow
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291832]Lockheed and Raytheon do great work. There are lots of flattened huts in Iraq to prove it.[/quote]
Yee-haw yippie-kay-ay nuke dem A-RABS
Iraq was a bullshit unjustified war and you know it
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291832]For what they do, yes. Police should not be used to patrol malls. And Mall Cops have been not given any sort of legal charter. They are not hired as law enforcers; they are hired as theft deterrents.[/quote]
Because they have no legal charter they are running amok with little to no accountability. They're assaulting people, illegally detaining people, harassing people, and getting away with it constantly. I'm reminded of the Wal-Mart greeter that kicked me in the shin because I wouldn't show a receipt, asshole is lucky I didn't press charges.
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291832]Dont confuse this with me saying that we should live in an industrial-anarchy state[/QUOTE]
What should I confuse this with then?
[QUOTE]The state of nature has a law of nature
to govern it, which obliges every one: and reason, which is that law,
teaches all mankind, who will but consult it, that being all equal and
independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or
possessions[/QUOTE]
It is the governments job to do this ^^^
I dont think locke ever mentioned carrying mail, but he certainly mentions the government's need to have ploice and millitary
[editline]10:15PM[/editline]
[QUOTE]Iraq was a bullshit unjustified war and you know it[/QUOTE]
I agree entirely...Im not a republican -,-
I was just proving that industry does help out the military :)
[QUOTE]What should I confuse this with then? [/QUOTE]
The government should not do anything which it was not founded to do, unless the NEED arises. The need for a public courier was before the days of the autombile and jumbo jet.
[QUOTE]Because they have no legal charter they are running amok with little to no accountability. They're assaulting people, illegally detaining people, harassing people, and getting away with it constantly. I'm reminded of the Wal-Mart greeter that kicked me in the shin because I wouldn't show a receipt, asshole is lucky I didn't press charges.[/QUOTE]
I think we both know this is a steaming pile. You are confusing gunless, weaponless mall cops with bounty hunters
I do disagree with the privitization of bounty hunting...those guys are loons
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291904]It is the governments job to do this ^^^
I dont think locke ever mentioned carrying mail, but he certainly mentions the government's need to have ploice and millitary[/QUOTE]
John Locke was a sociopath:
[quote]A criminal who, having renounced reason ... hath, by the unjust violence and slaughter he hath committed upon one, declared war against all mankind, and therefore may be destroyed as a lion or tyger, one of those wild savage beasts with whom men can have no society nor security.[/quote]
For every smart thing any philosopher says they say something dumb.
And what is so wrong with slaughtering felons?
And quite seriously, the only reason we don't slaughter felons is because of the abundance of resources in modern soceity. Locke takes a primal look at government: a NATURAL look. Read between the lines.
[QUOTE=kdabr;23292062]And what is so wrong with slaughtering felons?[/quote]
It's unconstitutional, as a big fan of the founding fathers you should respect that.
Oh, and it also lowers us to the level of the common animal, something that Locke was quoted as saying we can avoid with religion.
So he was a sociopath, a fundie, AND a hypocrite! Great role model.
[QUOTE=kdabr;23292062]And quite seriously, the only reason we don't slaughter felons is because of the abundance of resources in modern soceity. Locke takes a primal look at government: a NATURAL look. Read between the lines.[/QUOTE]
Governments can't be primal by nature, they're a civilized creation.
[QUOTE]It's unconstitutional, as a big fan of the founding fathers you should respect that.[/QUOTE]
They did a lot of great stuff in a time where it was taboo not to be religous. I just think the we should CHANGE the existing charter before we blow through it with a bulldozer...and we haven't done that.
[QUOTE]Oh, and it also lowers us to the level of the common animal, something that Locke was quoted as saying we can avoid with religion.
[/QUOTE]
Im going to ignore the whole religion argument. He may have been "religious," but anything ignoring religon would have been ignored by the populace of the time.
He probably was a hypocrite on paper...when in reality he was probably just a persecuted atheist :/
[QUOTE]Governments can't be primal by nature, they're a civilized creation. [/QUOTE]
I didnt say he takes a look at primal government, I said he takes a primal look at government. This is the point at which civilization is created. He explains the creation of government by analyzing the shift from primitive soceity to civilization
Christ may have been a huge fan of turning the other cheek, but last I heard, he died when he was like 30...because he sat there while they nailed him to a cross...turning the other cheek works great if you are convinced that there is a God who will not let harm befall you
[QUOTE=kdabr;23290910]What do mean it was established right wing? There were no right and left wings before America. There was the king's wing, and the gallows' wing...that was it. There wasnt exactly some grand leftist free healthcare scheme in the 1800's[/QUOTE]
You realise that England had left and right parties in their parliament long before the USA was created? The Tories and the Whigs. Right and Left.
[QUOTE=kdabr;23290910]What do mean it was established right wing? There were no right and left wings before America. There was the king's wing, and the gallows' wing...that was it. There wasnt exactly some grand leftist free healthcare scheme in the 1800's[/QUOTE]
Thomas Paine proposed an early system of universal health care
[editline]01:00AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;23296395]You realise that England had left and right parties in their parliament long before the USA was created? The Tories and the Whigs. Right and Left.[/QUOTE]
the terms "right wing" and "left wing" originated during the french revolution, but the conflict between progressivism and conservativism, a loose analogy for left vs right, is as old as politics itself
[editline]01:03AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=kdabr;23292265]
Christ may have been a huge fan of turning the other cheek, but last I heard, he died when he was like 30...because he sat there while they nailed him to a cross...turning the other cheek works great if you are convinced that there is a God who will not let harm befall you[/QUOTE]
but jesus didn't believe that harm would not befall him. His death, his turning the other cheek, made him a martyr; it made him a symbol for a cause. Christianity, 2000 years after his death, is the largest religion in the world with over 2 billion adherents. I'd say he was pretty damn successful.
[editline]01:05AM[/editline]
also i can't read stuff that is responses to quotes that are responses to quotes that are responses to quotes, but it sounds like someone is dissin on John Locke and that I cannot let stand *tears shirt off*
[QUOTE=kdabr;23290551]Take into account several factors when making this statement:
1. The welfare in scandanavia is so good that there isnt much incentive for petty crime
2. These countries (especially norway) use their socialized/highly taxed oil industry to pay for this utopian level of welfare
3. This sort of welfare/nationalized healthcare is not feasible anywhere but Norway[/quote]
like France and Canada right?
[editline]08:33AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=kdabr;23290739]We were the first first-world, democratic nation. And if these other countries continue down their fiscally irresponsible paths, we will be the last...at least the last nation in which hard work, intelligence, cunning, and passion are financially rewarded[/QUOTE]
The magna carta was written before the US was formed. And the us was never a democracy buddy, it's a republic
[editline]08:33AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=kdabr;23290910]What do mean it was established right wing? There were no right and left wings before America. There was the king's wing, and the gallows' wing...that was it. There wasnt exactly some grand leftist free healthcare scheme in the 1800's[/QUOTE]
yes there was lol, it was a loose term from French politics
[editline]08:34AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291030]Lasseiz faire is the seperation of state and governent.
When I want a package shipped, I have two choices:
I can have it shipped via the USPS
-I will have to wait in line for eons at the post office
-It will be priced well enough, but won't travel quite as quickly at this intermediate price point
-It will not be delivered on a saturday
-The man my tax money pays to deliver it will be the same guy I see taking naps in his truck
I can have it shipped via FedEx
-The workers will be quick, courteous, and hardworking. They know that a private corporation will fire them, unlike the Job-For-Life USPS
-It will be shipped quickly at a very reasonable price (fedex ground)
-I will be able (and have been able to for years) to track my package to estimate the delivery date
-The people delivering my package won't be skipping work for Columbus Day
[editline]09:30PM[/editline]
^^ This is exactly what Im saying. Money spent on education is money very well spent
Im saying that it cant be compared at the time of its inception...because it was all alone[/QUOTE]
anecdotal and wishful thinking evidence... lol
[editline]08:35AM[/editline]
Lasseiz faire capitalism is fucking evil. and did you seriously argue against the FDA?
[editline]08:36AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291904]
I agree entirely...Im not a republican -,-
I was just proving that industry does help out the military :)
[/QUOTE]
you do a good impression
[editline]08:37AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291904]
I do disagree with the privitization of bounty hunting...those guys are loons[/QUOTE]
now you're cutting corners
SOCIALISM
Its going to destroy EVERYTHING
[QUOTE=A Dead Guy;23297145]SOCIALISM
Its going to destroy EVERYTHING[/QUOTE]
like what?
[QUOTE=Warhol;23297163]like what?[/QUOTE]
Like EVERYTHING
EVERYTHING? not everything?
[editline]09:03AM[/editline]
that's quite the stretch comrade
[QUOTE=kdabr;23291602]The USPS rips my letters to shreds...often
I often ship computers with limited padding and they always come out fine with FedEx ground...I cant say the same for USPS
Why? Their business practices are entirely scalable...esp. if UPS and DHL helped em out lol. Thats the problem with the USPS...they are bogged down with crusty mail carrier pensions...they are a government funded monopoly[/QUOTE]
You realize USPS receives no government funding, right?
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;23296400]but it sounds like someone is dissin on John Locke and that I cannot let stand *tears shirt off*[/QUOTE]
Calm down brochop, I was just trying to show a quoting someone who supports your argument doesn't make your argument any more valid.
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