• Straight Pride Parade Fails Miserably
    127 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;48331178]Do you [I]honestly[/I] believe that, though? That someone would go through the trouble of organizing an event and actively associating themselves with a notoriously reactionary "movement", if you can even call it that, without realizing the implications? Why aren't these hypothetical, 100% unprejudiced people who find gay parades fun not just going to the gay parades, then?[/QUOTE] Even if those people didn't exist, the fact that those straight pride events are reactionary responses have nothing to do with the fact they are straight prides and everything to do with the fact they are run by bigots. People who say that anybody who runs a straight pride is a homophobic asshole are making blanket generalisations and denouncing the wrong cause. The concept of straight pride in itself is not inherently homophobic.
Good. Sexuality pride parades are a stupid concept. There is pride in achievements, not in something you have no control over. There are no blonde pride parades and rightfully so. Straight parade is double stupid because gay people at least can take pride in whitstansing harsh injustices, whilist straight people have absolutely no reason to be proud of being straight.
[QUOTE=_Axel;48331357]Even if those people didn't exist, the fact that those straight pride events are reactionary responses have nothing to do with the fact they are straight prides and everything to do with the fact they are run by bigots. People who say that anybody who runs a straight pride is a homophobic asshole are making blanket generalisations and denouncing the wrong cause. The concept of straight pride in itself is not inherently homophobic.[/QUOTE] That, like paul simon said, has to do with the word being a bit misleading. National pride is not the same as gay pride or black pride. You can be proud to be straight in the "national pride" sense, but being proud of it in the same way that LGBT people are proud of overcoming difficulties and widespread prejudice is flat out impossible, because you face literally no prejudice for being straight
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;48331587]That, like paul simon said, has to do with the word being a bit misleading. National pride is not the same as gay pride or black pride. You can be proud to be straight in the "national pride" sense, but being proud of it in the same way that LGBT people are proud of overcoming difficulties and widespread prejudice is flat out impossible, because you face literally no prejudice for being straight[/QUOTE] Sure, straight pride is not necessarily pride in the LGBT sense though.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48329096]Yeah imagine being a bigot. Thats truly the saddest life I can imagine[/QUOTE] Your imagination is kind of tame, tbh.
[QUOTE=_Axel;48333576]Sure, straight pride is not necessarily pride in the LGBT sense though.[/QUOTE] Then what sense is it supposed to be, then?
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48333931]Then what sense is it supposed to be, then?[/QUOTE] You're aware that pride can stem from other things than overcoming oppression, right?
[QUOTE=_Axel;48334237]You're aware that pride can stem from other things than overcoming oppression, right?[/QUOTE] That's not an answer. What reasons would a person have to be proud of being straight? It's the "default" for society right now, if you're straight you about as normal as it gets sexuality wise (discounting your weird beartrap buttplug fetishes, of course). You overcame no oppression being straight. You suffered no mental anguish from hiding being straight. Why would you ever be proud to be straight? Straight pride is nothing more than a reactionary hatedom to the fact that gay people are actually being recognised as human beings. This shit barely even crossed peoples minds until more recent years when homosexuality started to actually become visible in a positive light again.
Is being normal not something to be proud of now?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48334853]Is being normal not something to be proud of now?[/QUOTE] not really no...you're normal after all. nothing special. the standard. what's expected. average. You can be happy about being normal if you want to be. But being proud is a massive step up.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48334859] You can be happy about being normal if you want to be.[B] But being proud is a massive step up.[/B][/QUOTE] This seems like a really dumb argument. You are arguing against the definition of something based on your own relative opinion.
[QUOTE=Thlis;48334885]This seems like a really dumb argument. You are arguing against the definition of something based on your own relative opinion.[/QUOTE] [quote] proud praʊd/ adjective adjective: proud; comparative adjective: prouder; superlative adjective: proudest 1. feeling deep pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements, qualities, or possessions or those of someone with whom one is closely associated. [/quote] Now. I dunno about you. But if you feel a deep satisfaction that you're average then damn, you managed to turn "breathing and not dying like a moron" into an achievement. If that is genuinely an achievement to you you must be quite simple to please. Homosexual, bisexual and transgender individuals however can be proud of the fact they differ from the norm. Because the fact they are able to do that means they have achieved something, they can actually be the person they are rather than having to live a false life pretending to be "normal" to avoid getting their ass beat or imprisoned (or killed!). Pride events are nothing to do with being proud explicitly of the fact you take mad dick in the butt or mash your bottom lips like a pro, but instead to do with the fact that society is changing and letting you finally be yourself, you can finally fight against the hardships you've suffered, etc. There is still [B]zero[/B] reason to be proud of being straight. Content? Happy? Yeah, whatever. But pride is different. So do any of you actually have a good reason to be proud of being part of the majority who will not face hardship in that aspect of their lives?
There's nothing inherently wrong with a straight pride parade, but when you're using it as an excuse to bash everyone other than straight people then it's just a hate parade, nothing more.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48334853]Is being normal not something to be proud of now?[/QUOTE] "I'm proud of being normal" aka being straight? Isn't that a pretty demeaning thing to say?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48334930]Now. I dunno about you. But if you feel a deep satisfaction that you're average then damn, you managed to turn "breathing and not dying like a moron" into an achievement. If that is genuinely an achievement to you you must be quite simple to please.[/QUOTE] Do you just enjoy being insufferable? All I see any pride events resulting in is not promoting acceptance but promoting division amongst people.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48334853]Is being normal not something to be proud of now?[/QUOTE] Lol, implying gay people are "worse" than straight people and you're proud to not be "one of those degenerate gays gross" that's pretty disgusting
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48334859]not really no...you're normal after all. nothing special. the standard. what's expected. average. You can be happy about being normal if you want to be. But being proud is a massive step up.[/QUOTE] People are proud of being American, which is also pretty normal in my eyes :v: People are proud of their religion, even when it's the most common one. People are proud of god damn anything. Why is it wrong to be proud of being straight? Because only people with the other sexual orientations are allowed to be proud because there's less of them? This is all about opinions, and in my opinion you can be proud of anything you want no matter how common or uncommon the subject is. [editline]31st July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Aldawolf;48335250]Lol, implying gay people are "worse" than straight people and you're proud to not be "one of those degenerate gays gross" that's pretty disgusting[/QUOTE] He just said normal, not the best :v: He might not have meant it the way you read that
[QUOTE=Thlis;48335056]Do you just enjoy being insufferable? All I see any pride events resulting in is not promoting acceptance but promoting division amongst people.[/QUOTE] If people find pride parade to be sufficient enough to make them dislike someone based on them, then they clearly did not accept them in the first place.
[QUOTE=paul simon;48336499]People are proud of being American, which is also pretty normal in my eyes :v: People are proud of their religion, even when it's the most common one. People are proud of god damn anything. Why is it wrong to be proud of being straight? Because only people with the other sexual orientations are allowed to be proud because there's less of them? This is all about opinions, and in my opinion you can be proud of anything you want no matter how common or uncommon the subject is. [editline]31st July 2015[/editline] He just said normal, not the best :v: He might not have meant it the way you read that[/QUOTE] Being proud to be an American is not comparable to being proud to be gay. It's not about being gay, it's about facing the discrimination that gay people face daily and standing up to it, while being proud to be an American is simply being proud of the accomplishments of your country. If gays weren't considered second class citizens as they have been until recently, and weren't hated for what they are, gay pride wouldn't need to be a thing and then it would be silly to take "pride" in your sexual orientation. Straight people don't face discrimination, and there's so many straight people that if a straight person accomplishes something, there's really no point in pointing out their sexual orientation as the reason. Gay pride is about taking pride in yourself about who you are and saying that you'll face up to the people who would hate you, not about the accomplishments of gay people as a whole. I'd be proud to be an American if NASA put people on Mars, but I wouldn't feel proud to be gay if a gay astronaut was part of the mission. But I take pride in myself that I am not ashamed of who I am and will not be shamed by others. So basically, it's not about the sexual orientation itself, it's about the discrimination you get for your sexual orientation and how you stand up and go against the shaming and hate you get. That's why it's silly to take pride in being straight, because straight people don't face challenges just because they're straight. Gay people face challenges related to being gay. The pride events are about acceptance (which straight people have) and raising awareness (which straight people don't need) and in the face of discrimination (Which straight people don't have to deal with.)
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;48334991]"I'm proud of being normal" aka being straight? Isn't that a pretty demeaning thing to say?[/QUOTE] You act like normal is always good or better. I would never say something like that, but I think of "normal" in logical terms meaning most common by significant margin. FACT: If you are gay you are a minority. So you shouldn't have a problem with saying the same thing. I'm proud to be not normal, because of the pitfalls of being normal i.e being awful at technology, getting a subpair education, and getting payed poor wages. None the less with its privilege comes pitfalls. but I am confident in it all so I don't try to sell people on me. I just be me. Parades and bullshit are seeking outside validation for one's sexuality instead of just living with it with its ups and downs. More people need to get over themselves and do something productive. I'm not saying go dig ditches or cure cancer if you don't want to, I'm saying do something that isn't narcissism related or just seeking outside validation without doing anything. If someone spends 2k hours in a 24/7 2fort playing just sniper, I say its a poor use of time, but it's somewhat measurable and took some discipline. What does a gay parade accomplish other than broadcast difference instead of just showing that you can live whatever life you want? This is not a good way to sell your ability to participate in society normally if that is a goal. What recent social justice has taught me is watch what I say in real life very carefully/don't make jokes around certain people or face over the top public shaming for something I thought about for a brief moment in time. Jokes are funny because of differences. The straight parade was stupid, the existence gives more support for broadcasting your sexuality instead of just living with your differences. The guy shows he felt threatened by the movement.
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;48336790]Being proud to be an American is not comparable to being proud to be gay. It's not about being gay, it's about facing the discrimination that gay people face daily and standing up to it, while being proud to be an American is simply being proud of the accomplishments of your country. If gays weren't considered second class citizens as they have been until recently, and weren't hated for what they are, gay pride wouldn't need to be a thing and then it would be silly to take "pride" in your sexual orientation. Straight people don't face discrimination, and there's so many straight people that if a straight person accomplishes something, there's really no point in pointing out their sexual orientation as the reason. Gay pride is about taking pride in yourself about who you are and saying that you'll face up to the people who would hate you, not about the accomplishments of gay people as a whole. I'd be proud to be an American if NASA put people on Mars, but I wouldn't feel proud to be gay if a gay astronaut was part of the mission. But I take pride in myself that I am not ashamed of who I am and will not be shamed by others. So basically, it's not about the sexual orientation itself, it's about the discrimination you get for your sexual orientation and how you stand up and go against the shaming and hate you get. That's why it's silly to take pride in being straight, because straight people don't face challenges just because they're straight. Gay people face challenges related to being gay. The pride events are about acceptance (which straight people have) and raising awareness (which straight people don't need) and in the face of discrimination (Which straight people don't have to deal with.)[/QUOTE] You're arguing in circles. We already explained that pride in the LGBT gay pride sense is a specific sense of pride and not at all representative of pride in its general form. Why do you keep comparing the two? Lions not having stripes doesn't stop them from being felines, it simply means they aren't tigers. You're making a very basic mistake by assuming the inclusion goes the other way around. [editline]31st July 2015[/editline] Being proud of being straight doesn't make any less sense than being proud to be an American. Either way you didn't contribute to the achievements in any significant way, and it's not like the American people are significantly more oppressed than the rest of the world, quite the contrary actually.
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;48336790]Being proud to be an American is not comparable to being proud to be gay. It's not about being gay, it's about facing the discrimination that gay people face daily and standing up to it, while being proud to be an American is simply being proud of the accomplishments of your country. If gays weren't considered second class citizens as they have been until recently, and weren't hated for what they are, gay pride wouldn't need to be a thing and then it would be silly to take "pride" in your sexual orientation. Straight people don't face discrimination, and there's so many straight people that if a straight person accomplishes something, there's really no point in pointing out their sexual orientation as the reason. Gay pride is about taking pride in yourself about who you are and saying that you'll face up to the people who would hate you, not about the accomplishments of gay people as a whole. I'd be proud to be an American if NASA put people on Mars, but I wouldn't feel proud to be gay if a gay astronaut was part of the mission. But I take pride in myself that I am not ashamed of who I am and will not be shamed by others. So basically, it's not about the sexual orientation itself, it's about the discrimination you get for your sexual orientation and how you stand up and go against the shaming and hate you get. That's why it's silly to take pride in being straight, because straight people don't face challenges just because they're straight. Gay people face challenges related to being gay. The pride events are about acceptance (which straight people have) and raising awareness (which straight people don't need) and in the face of discrimination (Which straight people don't have to deal with.)[/QUOTE] How is it different? Is pride about facing discrimination or oppression? Is pride about acceptance? Are Americans oppressed or discriminated against, and thus need to show their pride? Can straight people not show pride for their specific sexual orientation? "Straight people don't face discrimination" - Then how come straight people are laughed at when they have pride? That's discriminatory! :v: I'm proud of being Norwegian, and we aren't exactly oppressed. Your arguments all come down to your (and others) personal opinions, and I don't agree with your unclear understanding of pride.
[QUOTE=Thlis;48335056]Do you just enjoy being insufferable? All I see any pride events resulting in is not promoting acceptance but promoting division amongst people.[/QUOTE] This is such a simplistic way of looking at it. Gay people have been oppressed to the point where they had to form tight communities in order to survive. Same with black people and other minorities. You're basically implying "everything's fine now so those communities should disband or at least never be celebrated or hold any public events". We're prideful of saying who we are when many think we shouldn't, not of saying who we're not. By that I mean pride is about saying "look how far we've come as a society to the point where we can express this in public, isn't that great " not "we're so proud to not be straight, being straight is terrible". Excuse my confrontational tone but it's really annoying when people who have presumably not really thought about this for any proper length of time look down their nose at it and piously claim it's counter-productive.
[QUOTE=paul simon;48337846]How is it different? Is pride about facing discrimination or oppression? Is pride about acceptance? Are Americans oppressed or discriminated against, and thus need to show their pride? Can straight people not show pride for their specific sexual orientation? "Straight people don't face discrimination" - Then how come straight people are laughed at when they have pride? That's discriminatory! :v: I'm proud of being Norwegian, and we aren't exactly oppressed. Your arguments all come down to your (and others) personal opinions, and I don't agree with your unclear understanding of pride.[/QUOTE] I give up because you clearly are unable to read, since I explained every single thing you're arguing.
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;48340112]I give up because you clearly are unable to read, since I explained every single thing you're arguing.[/QUOTE] Pot and kettle really.
There's nothing wrong with having pride, but if you are proud to be straight, why not say you are proud to be white? We all know what that really means.
oh man I WISH I had the sheer amount of privilege to think a "straight pride" event is even remotely a good idea
[QUOTE=gastyne;48340349]There's nothing wrong with having pride, but if you are proud to be straight, why not say you are proud to be white? We all know what that really means.[/QUOTE] Then you could say that pale skin being a standard of beauty in Japan is racist. Again, pride isn't always used in the way LGBT communities do.
[QUOTE=salty peanut v2;48318486]nice job on looking like the biggest asshole in town[/QUOTE] Pride parades in general are stupid who cares what your sexual orientation is.
[QUOTE=paul simon;48337846]How is it different? Is pride about facing discrimination or oppression? Is pride about acceptance? Are Americans oppressed or discriminated against, and thus need to show their pride? Can straight people not show pride for their specific sexual orientation?[/QUOTE] The point isn't that pride is about discrimination or oppresion, the point is that oppression is the only reason why gay pride -or racial pride, but not national pride as I'm about to explain- makes sense. If the LGBT community was accepted from day one, gay pride parades would get backlash as well. But they're not. So promoting pride, to all the people who are getting bullied, assaulted and even at a risk of being killed for their sexuality, is important. They're not proud of being gay just because they were born that way. They're proud of it [I]despite[/I] the widespread prejudice and oppresion. They're proud because people like them have stood against oppression without being afraid of being open about who they are. That doesn't mean pride only comes with oppression. It stems from many things, one of them, for example, is being able to endorse and stick by, or maybe promote your own culture, which is why I'm assuming you're proud of being Norwegian, and not because you *happened* to be born there. There's absolutely nothing that makes sense about straight pride though. And if you asked "But if gay people are proud of their community's achievements then why can't I be proud of what straight people have achieved"? Because your sexuality doesn't inherently make you more likely to achieve something. Having straight pride because Einstein was straight is pointless, his sexuality has no bearing on what he achieved. Having pride in being a part of the same community as Harvey Milk makes sense, however, because the fact that he was gay made his achievements much more meaningful.
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