[QUOTE=Sableye;53121013]"this memo is too wordy, the last one had like 4 pages, this one has so much more so I can't read them all."[/QUOTE]
[quote]"The Democrats sent a very political and long response memo which they knew, because of sources and methods (and more), would have to be heavily redacted, whereupon they would blame the White House for lack of transparency," the president wrote on Twitter. "Told them to re-do and send back in proper form!"[/quote]
fucking if satire isn't reality now, why can't we have landed in the monty python world then? oh wait, we are with all this double talk and the impending police coming in and breaking up the scene ala mueller.
I just had a thought... What if Russia's plan all along was to cause as much internal chaos as possible within the U.S., blackmail Trump into this position where he's essentially attempting to become a dictator, cause the population to revolt and mass-protest in every major city in our country... and then start a full-scale invasion of the U.S. while the entire government and the country's population is in an utterly chaotic mess?
Would this be effective strategy-wise? Would that many armed protesters in the streets be a better thing for defending the country? Or would it become ridiculously easier for Russia to use biochemical weapons or something along those lines and wipe out the majority of our population?
I'm genuinely terrified for the state of our nation, and the world, right now. I can't believe that things have gotten this out of hand. I don't even know what's the right thing to do anymore. This madness has to stop.
[QUOTE=Solece;53123070]I just had a thought... What if Russia's plan all along was to cause as much internal chaos as possible within the U.S., blackmail Trump into this position where he's essentially attempting to become a dictator, cause the population to revolt and mass-protest in every major city in our country... and then start a full-scale invasion of the U.S. while the entire government and the country's population is in an utterly chaotic mess?
Would this be effective strategy-wise? Would that many armed protesters in the streets be a better thing for defending the country? Or would it become ridiculously easier for Russia to use biochemical weapons or something along those lines and wipe out the majority of our population?
I'm genuinely terrified for the state of our nation, and the world, right now. I can't believe that things have gotten this out of hand. I don't even know what's the right thing to do anymore. This madness has to stop.[/QUOTE]
A divided America is a weaker America for any enemy nation. If the American people are in social upheaval, and the American government itself is in a chaotic lockdown, any invasion or any attack of almost [I]any kind[/I] is incredibly easy. With the false missile alert in Hawaii and in Japan, people might not take an actual incoming missile alert seriously and ignore it. With the "rise" of "Fake News", people will doubt almost any headline they see on TV, and especially on the internet. With the President and his Henchmen casting doubts onto the legitimacy of the FBI, CIA, DOJ, and so on, people are beginning to also doubt the legitimacy of these institutions - several of which having released statements supporting the fact that Russia successfully interfered with and manipulated our 2016 election.
Things really are lining up for an unexpected strike on America that would effectively cripple us and force us to surrender to our attackers before we had the chance to respond with our own military might.
[QUOTE=Solece;53123070]I just had a thought... What if Russia's plan all along was to cause as much internal chaos as possible within the U.S., blackmail Trump into this position where he's essentially attempting to become a dictator, cause the population to revolt and mass-protest in every major city in our country... and then start a full-scale invasion of the U.S. while the entire government and the country's population is in an utterly chaotic mess?
Would this be effective strategy-wise? Would that many armed protesters in the streets be a better thing for defending the country? Or would it become ridiculously easier for Russia to use biochemical weapons or something along those lines and wipe out the majority of our population?
I'm genuinely terrified for the state of our nation, and the world, right now. I can't believe that things have gotten this out of hand. I don't even know what's the right thing to do anymore. This madness has to stop.[/QUOTE]
I think you should either stop reading Tom Clancy novels or start writing them I can't tell.
I very much doubt any Russian hi-jinx before, after, or during the 2016 election are aimed at weakening America prior to a physical invasion. I think the objective was just to sow division in general, and to elect Trump in particular. This kills two birds with one stone by denying the presidency of someone like Clinton, who would be far more suspicious of Russia's actions and intentions than someone like Trump, while also helping install someone who is not only less capable of unifying allied and friendly countries but particularly interested in the opposite.
[QUOTE=Quark:;53123113]A divided America is a weaker America for any enemy nation. If the American people are in social upheaval, and the American government itself is in a chaotic lockdown, any invasion or any attack of almost [I]any kind[/I] is incredibly easy. With the false missile alert in Hawaii and in Japan, people might not take an actual incoming missile alert seriously and ignore it. With the "rise" of "Fake News", people will doubt almost any headline they see on TV, and especially on the internet. With the President and his Henchmen casting doubts onto the legitimacy of the FBI, CIA, DOJ, and so on, people are beginning to also doubt the legitimacy of these institutions - several of which having released statements supporting the fact that Russia successfully interfered with and manipulated our 2016 election.
Things really are lining up for an unexpected strike on America that would effectively cripple us and force us to surrender to our attackers before we had the chance to respond with our own military might.[/QUOTE]
Even more terrifying thought. In the event that Russia DID try to invade in the midst of this chaos, and we were unable to properly defend our country and were forced to surrender, it would mean that Russia would then take control of OUR military powers and become the most powerful country in the world. Not only this, but they could move nuclear weapons into the U.S., and effectively hold our country hostage to prevent retaliation from any other countries that might be willing to still defend the U.S. The entire world very well might be witnessing the most major hostile takeover in human history in the making. Boy I hope I'm fucking wrong.
[QUOTE=Ta16;53123117]I think you should either stop reading Tom Clancy novels or start writing them I can't tell.[/QUOTE]
I would be more than happy to take on a Tom Clancy role, if it meant that writing these stories remained JUST stories, and not the dark reality that we're actually currently living in.
[QUOTE=Ta16;53123117]I think you should either stop reading Tom Clancy novels or start writing them I can't tell.[/QUOTE]
Funnily enough I had almost this exact idea for a novel, with the title "Orange Stained Red".
Fuckin' called it. Now all we need is a smartass dem to get up there and read it into public Senate record word-for-fucking-word.
Canada could single handedly annihilate a Russian invasion. The US will be fine.
There is one nation on the planet capable of launching an invasion across an ocean. It is the US. Nobody else in the world is even remotely capable of such a thing. Not even close.
Plus there is no amount of disarray that stops Russia from getting nuked. Mainland would be nuked and any fleet would be nuked. Enjoy having no supply line while trying to occupy a nation capable of arming every man woman and child.
This is an attempt to economically destabilize the US. The US has been fucking itself for years with wealth concentration. The Russians are just giving us the push in the hopes that we politically fold and follow economically.
[QUOTE=GunFox;53123494]There is one nation on the planet capable of launching an invasion across an ocean. It is the US. Nobody else in the world is even remotely capable of such a thing. Not even close.[/QUOTE]
So the country that's behind all this must share a land border with the US? Jesus Christ, those bastard Canadians have rused us all
Destabilizing the US is the only attack Putin needs to make. Why bother with a costly and possibly-nuclear war by invading American soil or proxy interests? Coffins coming home is bad for popularity and jets and tanks look and perform much better on a base than in burning wreckages across the countryside. It's all completely superfluous if you can exercise some covert efforts and some good old corruption and blackmail and then wait a few years for America to shake itself apart like a washing machine with a cinder block in the spin cycle.
And boy, is Trump the perfect candidate for that.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;53123625]So the country that's behind all this must share a land border with the US? Jesus Christ, those bastard Canadians have rused us all[/QUOTE]
Sorry...
[QUOTE=GunFox;53123494]Canada could single handedly annihilate a Russian invasion.[/QUOTE]
I'm curious about this line, can you elaborate?
[QUOTE=DChapsfield;53124160]I'm curious about this line, can you elaborate?[/QUOTE]
To my knowledge Canada's military is well-equipped, well-trained, and not particularly small. I believe they're actually one of the top militaries in the world.
[QUOTE=DChapsfield;53124160]I'm curious about this line, can you elaborate?[/QUOTE]
A Russian invasion of the US would fuck Russia over harder even than Germany's invasion of Russia. We have sufficient resources and strategic depth to fight for years if necessary. Russia has a weak economy and minimal power projection capabilities. Their supply lines would stretch across oceans and continents (and be easily severed by the Navy/Air Force), while we'd be fighting in our back yards. Not to mention the response from the international community. The logistics of it just don't work, at all. It'd be remembered as the greatest military blunder in history.
Forget that Red Dawn bullshit, it's pure fantasy. If Russia ever hurts us on our home soil militarily, I can virtually guarantee you it'll be through either espionage or nuclear attack, not a conventional invasion. We're about as secure from invasion as it gets.
Europe, on the other hand? Back during the cold war, the Soviet plan was to basically nuke NATO supply depots, assembly areas and command structures, drop a shit ton of nerve gas over Germany, then roll over the whole continent with massive armor columns. I'd have been worried if I'd lived in W. Germany back in the '70s.
[QUOTE=DChapsfield;53124160]I'm curious about this line, can you elaborate?[/QUOTE]
The Canadian military is well trained and uses modern equipment, but has vast holes in their logistical capabilities. Basically they don't need to spend money on it because their stupid neighbor to the South is more than happy to do it for them.
Canada also suffers from a small population compared to land mass and just doesn't fund their military enough to support large numbers. (None of this is a criticism of Canada in any fashion. Why spend when the US is your neighbor)
So in spite of their relatively small military, Russia still couldn't take them one on one because Russia lacks the boats.
That is the fun step everyone forgets. Boats. You need an obscenely powerful navy to launch and support an amphibious invasion. Otherwise you just have the host nation scramble Jets and sink your little flotilla.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;53123625]So the country that's behind all this must share a land border with the US? Jesus Christ, those bastard Canadians have rused us all[/QUOTE]
What if Mexico is involved? They've wanted revenge on the Yankees since 1848!
[QUOTE=GunFox;53125504]The Canadian military is well trained and uses modern equipment, but has vast holes in their logistical capabilities. Basically they don't need to spend money on it because their stupid neighbor to the South is more than happy to do it for them.
Canada also suffers from a small population compared to land mass and just doesn't fund their military enough to support large numbers. (None of this is a criticism of Canada in any fashion. Why spend when the US is your neighbor)
So in spite of their relatively small military, Russia still couldn't take them one on one because Russia lacks the boats.
That is the fun step everyone forgets. Boats. You need an obscenely powerful navy to launch and support an amphibious invasion. Otherwise you just have the host nation scramble Jets and sink your little flotilla.[/QUOTE]
that and because Canada has the exact same natural defenses as Siberia does. if russia attacked north over the artic circle theyd have to transport everything across the north pole and down through the canadian wilderness, east they have to get past NATO, west they have alaska and a practically impassable mountain range that still has prevented any roads from being laid from the lower 48 to alaska directly
it'd be easier for them to occupy alaska but then they'd still have to ship everything in because all the infrastructure is on the eastern half of the state
[QUOTE=Sableye;53127208]it'd be easier for them to occupy alaska but then they'd still have to ship everything in because all the infrastructure is on the eastern half of the state[/QUOTE]
Not to mention that every Canadian airport near the Alaskan border that could handle it would be bringing in as many US heavy birds as they could fit full of tanks and shit and letting those dirty bastards roll down the highways across the border, right fucking fast. BC's highways to the Yukon border would become military convoy hotlanes and the Canadian and US Air Forces would have exclusive control over the North American airspace with effectively absolute radar coverage thanks to NORAD.
We don't ordinarily welcome huge amounts of US military hardware onto our soil, but in the event of a Russian land invasion on North American territory you're damn right we'd help our closest ally channel as much FUCK YOU at the invaders as possible, even if Canada itself stayed out of direct military confrontation and concentrated on keeping our own borders defended and secure.
[QUOTE=Solece;53123070]I just had a thought... What if Russia's plan all along was to cause as much internal chaos as possible within the U.S., blackmail Trump into this position where he's essentially attempting to become a dictator, cause the population to revolt and mass-protest in every major city in our country... and then start a full-scale invasion of the U.S. while the entire government and the country's population is in an utterly chaotic mess?
Would this be effective strategy-wise? Would that many armed protesters in the streets be a better thing for defending the country? Or would it become ridiculously easier for Russia to use biochemical weapons or something along those lines and wipe out the majority of our population?
I'm genuinely terrified for the state of our nation, and the world, right now. I can't believe that things have gotten this out of hand. I don't even know what's the right thing to do anymore. This madness has to stop.[/QUOTE]
Why would they start an unnecessary war?
It's all geopolitics. A weaker US = a weaker west = a stronger Russia.
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