House approves sweeping tax bill in a win for Trump
72 replies, posted
All these triggered libtard snowflakes are too impatient to wait for the wealth to trickle down. #MAGA
[QUOTE=Dave_Parker;52993113]How much is 83k in the US? Is that common or high? I pull slightly less yearly but that's considered high here.
Don't dump ALL of it into the market, save some cash ($2-5k) for incidental expenses like a broken car, legal help etc[/QUOTE]
I mean put all you save into the market. If you are doing fine without the cuts you can likely afford to invest the cuts. But yeah, if you're not doing fine, build up an emergency fund.
[QUOTE=Harbie;52993034]I'd advise everyone to put their savings from the short term tax cuts into the market, their growth might help offset the tax increase when the personal cuts expire in the near future.[/QUOTE]
What growth? Even Paul Ryan has finally admitted that nobody knows if the tax cuts are going to rally the economy enough to hit the projections the bill relies on to not blow the US federal deficit way past an extra $1.5 trillion.
The economy is chugging along decently right now, but the Republicans are setting up conditions for potentially another Great Depression. Market stability is not guaranteed once these changes take effect.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52993155]What growth? Even Paul Ryan has finally admitted that nobody knows if the tax cuts are going to rally the economy enough to hit the projections the bill relies on to not blow the US federal deficit way past an extra $1.5 trillion.
The economy is chugging along decently right now, but the Republicans are setting up conditions for potentially another Great Depression. Market stability is not guaranteed once these changes take effect.[/QUOTE]
The market has been rallying since the election, largely in anticipation of tax reform. Since November 2016 it's grown almost 25%. Most analysts up their market predictions everytime news about tax reform breaks. Additionally, even if we did enter a recession next year, in the long term you will still get a significant ROI. Had you invested at the all time high right before the 07-08 recession and held your assets to today, you'd still have made an almost 80% ROI.
Long term market growth is one of the few things that holds true. What makes you think this is setting up conditions for a great deppresesion?
[QUOTE=Dave_Parker;52993113]How much is 83k in the US? Is that common or high? I pull slightly less yearly but that's considered high here.[/QUOTE]
in most suburban and smaller areas it'd be considered well above average to high for a two-income household
for perspective: at the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, working 40 hours per week, 52 weeks per year yields an annual income of only $15,080 (goddamn though)
a 'decent' skillset-specific entry-level-out-of-college job tends to land somewhere between 33-50k (usually when stats show said job should be 50-60 in the first place), tends to feel like you're getting shortchanged hard when it all gets sucked right back up into rent, student loans, and car payments for a good number of the following years.
at any rate it's unlikely we'd fall into the hike outliers in that chart but the chart is way too spread out to call any of it a 'vague' change
[QUOTE=Potus;52993198][media]https://twitter.com/RepJudyChu/status/943532872534843392[/media][/QUOTE]
[i]lord[/i]
on the plus side,
[img]https://i.imgur.com/qtGAHZa.png[/img]
Boy I'm so glad my taxes are higher now because it'll make those evil liberals mad!
[QUOTE=AkujiTheSniper;52993208]Boy I'm so glad my taxes are higher now because it'll make those evil liberals mad![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Orkel;52941379]From r/conservative
[t]https://i.imgur.com/cyCl045.png[/t][/QUOTE]
The bill is a win for the average American by making taxes easier to file. Originally an individual person making $50k a year could claim a standard deduction of $6k, now that person can claim a standard deduction of $12k. Married couples std deduction goes from $12 to $24k. You can either claim the standard deduction or itemize all of your deductions and be able to include mortgage interest in those deductions. Those interest payments are huge in the beginning of mortgage loans (you pay this interest before you pay down your principal towards the end of the loan). These consumer tax changes last for 8 years
The bill cuts taxes for corporations by nearly 1/3. This will either a) make America more enticing for companies to operate or b) allow companies to create new ways to make more $$ to please their shareholders. This part of the bill doesn't [I]directly[/I] impact me, but by working for one of the largest tech companies in the world I should see a nice return on discounted employee shares. This part of the bill does not expire
In the end, the bill has a little for everyone. The poor/middle class have an easier time filing taxes or can opt to get a Nice deduction for their mortgage interest, and corporations have an enticement to come back to the US and/or use their tax break money to make more money for their shareholders
OTOH, let's look at how NN repeal helps the middle class/poor: it doesn't. It only supports the monopolies that rule the internet industry. Just to express my thoughts on the recent actions of the current administration and how they impact our lives...
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52993280]The bill is a win for the average American by making taxes easier to file. Originally an individual person making $50k a year could claim a standard deduction of $6k, now that person can claim a standard deduction of $12k. Married couples std deduction goes from $12 to $24k. You can either claim the standard deduction or itemize all of your deductions and be able to include mortgage interest in those deductions. Those interest payments are huge in the beginning of mortgage loans (you pay this interest before you pay down your principal towards the end of the loan). These consumer tax changes last for 8 years
The bill cuts taxes for corporations by nearly 1/3. This will either a) make America more enticing for companies to operate or b) allow companies to create new ways to make more $$ to please their shareholders. This part of the bill doesn't [I]directly[/I] impact me, but by working for one of the largest tech companies in the world I should see a nice return on discounted employee shares. This part of the bill does not expire
In the end, the bill has a little for everyone. The poor/middle class have an easier time filing taxes or can opt to get a Nice deduction for their mortgage interest, and corporations have an enticement to come back to the US and/or use their tax break money to make more money for their shareholders
OTOH, let's look at how NN repeal helps the middle class/poor: it doesn't. It only supports the monopolies that rule the internet industry. Just to express my thoughts on the recent actions of the current administration and how they impact our lives...[/QUOTE]
it's a proven fact that trickle-down economics simply do not work in the long run
It's amazing how people can delude themselves into the belief they're not being fucked.
[QUOTE=patq911;52992653]"win"
edit: this isn't completely accurate, but if you want to see how vaguely this will change your taxes go here.
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-calculator.html[/URL]
2nd edit: also here's a great graph, dems finally broke the 50% mark, +12ish on average.
[url]https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-generic-ballot-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo[/url][/QUOTE]
this bill is bullshit, but hey i get a $200 tax cut
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52993280]-words-[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind, the personal tax cuts expire in eight or fewer years in order to bring the tax bill from adding more than $1.5 trillion to the deficit, the limit under Senate rules, but the tax bill is being sold with the explicit expectation that Congress will indefinitely renew the personal cuts so they don't expire -- which sounds really nice until you realize that means they're actually passing a tax bill that inflates the deficit by way more than $1.5 trillion.
Meanwhile the corporate cuts are permanent. Corporations didn't need a tax cut. They're already sitting on record levels of capital and the extra cash will either go into corporate savings or it'll pay out to shareholders -- largely the passive rich, not the working consumer.
Kansas tried trickle-down and it didn't work. Reagan trickle-down didn't work. It never works, but Republicans have been lying about it for so long I think some of them genuinely believe it even if they can't explain why.
Also thanks to the individual mandate being repealed, enjoy your ACA premiums increasing by at least 10%, if you don't have employee health insurance or rich-boy private insurance.
Enjoy the probable government shutdown over Christmas if Republicans refuse to compromise and add measures to stabilize the ACA insurance markets after Trump decided to stop paying out the ACA premium subsidies for low-income recipients, among other things Democrats want (like DACA). Keep in mind that if the government shuts down, the IRS still has to have the tax rules written by January.
The repeal of net neutrality just shows what they think of you: Utter contempt.
[QUOTE=Harbie;52993184]The market has been rallying since the election, largely in anticipation of tax reform. Since November 2016 it's grown almost 25%. Most analysts up their market predictions everytime news about tax reform breaks. Additionally, even if we did enter a recession next year, in the long term you will still get a significant ROI. Had you invested at the all time high right before the 07-08 recession and held your assets to today, you'd still have made an almost 80% ROI.
Long term market growth is one of the few things that holds true. What makes you think this is setting up conditions for a great deppresesion?[/QUOTE]
How can a market grow when tax cuts overwhelmingly benefit the rich, robbing the lower- and middle-class of spending power? Market growth depends on wealth circulating, and businesses and the rich don't need a tax cut, they're already sitting on record levels of cash reserves. The economy doesn't have much more room to go up and the downsides to the tax bill are going to crash down harshly on the broad economic base that the market depends on.
When consumption stagnates and the middle class has nothing to invest, the market stagnates. If confidence drops, this can trigger a crash. Mismanagement of the 1929 crash is a likely cause of the Great Depression, and they didn't have the Trump administration, a monument to incompetency and graft, at the helm.
The market is already doing great and a market that gets too hot for itself is a bad thing.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52993309]It's amazing how people can delude themselves into the belief they're not being fucked.[/QUOTE]
How are people being fucked. I literally laid out the points of the bill and how they benefit Americans
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52993346]How are people being fucked. I literally laid out the points of the bill and how they benefit Americans[/QUOTE]
Is it worth blowing up the deficit by >$1.5 trillion when the top 1% will enjoy at least 75% of the benefits of the tax cuts?
Because if that sentence just now didn't spell out how people are being fucked, you might want to consider how this may affect people other than you.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52993357]Is it worth blowing up the deficit by >$1.5 trillion when the top 1% will enjoy at least 75% of the benefits of the tax cuts?
Because if that sentence just now didn't spell out how people are being fucked, you might want to consider how this may affect people other than you.[/QUOTE]
100% of the country gets the benefits of the tax cuts. I think you're mistaking companies getting tax cuts vs individuals getting tax cuts. Both rich and poor will still pay taxes
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52993370]100% of the country gets the benefits of the tax cuts. I think you're mistaking companies getting tax cuts vs individuals getting tax cuts. Both rich and poor will still pay taxes[/QUOTE]
Please tell me how a single mom in Atlanta benefits from the tax break for private jet ownership? Or the reduction in pass-through income rates?
If I was an American my taxes would go down by $210, not change at all, or increase by $416, depending on exactly how I filed. Also my ACA premiums would likely increase by 10% next year from the elimination of the individual mandate driving premiums up, which could easily wipe out that $210 scrap thrown off the table for me.
If you only read the pure text of the bill it seems great, but when you think of the consequences in a more thorough way, it ain't.
[media]https://twitter.com/davidsirota/status/941800143346573312[/media]
This explicitly states that it makes sure wage-earners can't get the same tax breaks as corporate shareholders.
[media]https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/942527750971232256[/media]
"100% of the country" doesn't even apply to rich people in blue states so are you sure about these benefits for "100%" of America?
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52993370]100% of the country gets the benefits of the tax cuts. I think you're mistaking companies getting tax cuts vs individuals getting tax cuts. Both rich and poor will still pay taxes[/QUOTE]
Blatantly false. Our president won't even release his tax records.
The issue is our deficit is increasing and social programs and infrastructure are going to tank since the lack of taxes being upheld on the upper class and corporations. These entities don't need a tax cut like the middle or lower class does. Trickle down does not work and never will work with humanities greed. Most of the wealthy flat out said they wouldn't hire more people or make more products and services, they will ride this out as free cash that the tax man doesn't take now.
Wealthy persons, on average, don't reinvest or buy products that the average joe makes or sells. They either don't spend and instead save it or place it in a high end investment, or they buy luxury goods and services in which again isn't making money change hands from one social economic class to another, just wealthy to wealthy. All a tax break does for them is make them more wealthy and powerful when it comes to rich families(estate tax gone) and lobbying. There will be less money going back into the places we need it on a national and state level for medical, educational programs, and infrastructure in general; all of which supply jobs.
[QUOTE=RocketSnail;52993280]The bill is a win for the average American by making taxes easier to file. Originally an individual person making $50k a year could claim a standard deduction of $6k, now that person can claim a standard deduction of $12k. Married couples std deduction goes from $12 to $24k. You can either claim the standard deduction or itemize all of your deductions and be able to include mortgage interest in those deductions. Those interest payments are huge in the beginning of mortgage loans (you pay this interest before you pay down your principal towards the end of the loan). These consumer tax changes last for 8 years
The bill cuts taxes for corporations by nearly 1/3. This will either a) make America more enticing for companies to operate or b) allow companies to create new ways to make more $$ to please their shareholders. This part of the bill doesn't [I]directly[/I] impact me, but by working for one of the largest tech companies in the world I should see a nice return on discounted employee shares. This part of the bill does not expire
In the end, the bill has a little for everyone. The poor/middle class have an easier time filing taxes or can opt to get a Nice deduction for their mortgage interest, and corporations have an enticement to come back to the US and/or use their tax break money to make more money for their shareholders
OTOH, let's look at how NN repeal helps the middle class/poor: it doesn't. It only supports the monopolies that rule the internet industry. Just to express my thoughts on the recent actions of the current administration and how they impact our lives...[/QUOTE]
Ya i'm so much better off with an extra paycheck in my pocket at the end of the year, meanwhile the company i work for gets to bring home hundreds of billion that they've been evading taxes on just in time to dramatically boost our stock price. Also we are still laying off thousands of blue and white collar positions to "streamline"
Also this bill still encourages companies to invert more than ever since the minimum tax is probably going to be invalidated by the wto, and they can still route their overseas profits through low tax havens before bringing it home for free.
This is the rise of a new America that has realized that the deficit doesn't matter and that growth is the only way forward, at whatever the cost. We're either going to see an unparalleled power play by the United States in the world economy or the next crash.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52993478]This is the rise of a new America that has realized that the deficit doesn't matter and that growth is the only way forward, at whatever the cost. We're either going to see an unparalleled power play by the United States in the world economy or the next crash.[/QUOTE]
I'll take "Next crash" for 800 alex. You do not stimulate an already hot stock market like this, it will come crashing down because interest rates will shoot up, meanwhile our deficit is ballooning and our markets are not realistically building in risk anymore, we just had the worst year for natural disasters on record, over 5 million people lost everything and its still ticking up, and virtually every stock out there is massively over valued, its all setting up a bubble a very big bubble
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52993478]This is the rise of a new America that has realized that the deficit doesn't matter and that growth is the only way forward, at whatever the cost. We're either going to see an unparalleled power play by the United States in the world economy or the next crash.[/QUOTE]
not only are we going to see the next crash, but I highly doubt america will ever recover as a world power after it
[QUOTE=Judas;52993534]not only are we going to see the next crash, but I highly doubt america will ever recover as a world power after it[/QUOTE]
I think we could. We nonetheless would still remain one of the largest nations on the planet -- we've got tons of room still to expand if we felt like it. That said, it'll probably take a lot of time -- or a few very intelligent and well-advisor'd Presidents, Congressmen, and Judges to put the nation back together again.
My congressmen (Curbelo) is bragging about a few corporations claiming to be giving out bonuses and whatnot because of the tax bill. Because of course corporations were struggling SO much before the tax bill and now are willing to give some scraps to the employees. What a great trade. The American people will take $1.5 Trillion in more debt, higher health premiums, and higher taxes for many eventually, but hey some of us will get a one time bonus! God bless corporations and this wonderful GOP tax bill!
Makes me angry, I can't wait to volunteer for his opponent.
So, what's going to burst the bubble, that's what I want to know?
My best guess would have been telecom companies pushing their service hikes too far with Net Neutrality gone but since that's still up in the air I'd have to say investments in dirty energy falling through when cleaner energies becomes the dominant methods and the government just can't give coal companies what they want without bankrupting the nation. Automation enveloping literally every job would also be a good bet.
Bear in mind I know very little about economics.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52993536]I think we could. We nonetheless would still remain one of the largest nations on the planet -- we've got tons of room still to expand if we felt like it. That said, it'll probably take a lot of time -- or a few very intelligent and well-advisor'd Presidents, Congressmen, and Judges to put the nation back together again.[/QUOTE]
Then the next bombastic "conservative" will come along and blow it all up AGAIN like Nixon did, like Regan did, like Dubya did, and like Trump will do.
Obama even was paying down the national debt till the republicans took over completely in 2013 and started writing whatever they wanted
lets do 1929 and 1987 and 2008 all over again bois
My taxes go up $40, and I'll probably lose health insurance
Nice! :suicide:
None of this money is going to trickle down, and saying companies will just reinvest it is foolish, all you have to do is look at the telecoms to see that they're content with spending the absolute minimum to keep their service functioning in their regional monopolies, while overcharging for service and sucking up that sweet sweet easy money
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52993536]I think we could. We nonetheless would still remain one of the largest nations on the planet -- we've got tons of room still to expand if we felt like it. That said, it'll probably take a lot of time -- or a few very intelligent and well-advisor'd Presidents, Congressmen, and Judges to put the nation back together again.[/QUOTE]
Fat chance of that under the current system. Everything about the US - from the electoral process, the balance and distribution of power, the political culture itself - everything - needs to be drastically overhauled. As is, we're a shambling mess of a democracy.
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