• Steam's new gifting restrictions regarding VAC-enabled games
    200 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50830439]Don't just give shit out at random. Take a moment to consider the people you're gifting to.[/QUOTE] it is now literally possible to be prevented from gifting every valve game even if you only gift them to your closest friends also screw being charitable and generous right????? if a millionaire wants to do a 300-copy giveaway but they dont have serial keys do they have to go harass Valve or buy them from resellers or what
[QUOTE=LSK;50830651]I really don't see why it's hard for you to understand why this is kinda pointless and will harm people that do giveaways and stuff. It's the simplest thing yet you just can't wrap it around your head.[/QUOTE] It isn't pointless, it does harm other people. People stockpile csgo copies to use to cheat, and that becomes a lot harder now.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830654]I don't understand why people have to get outraged and mad over something when it's clearly done with good intentions and will help in solving a problem. Sure, it also causes other ones, and you might think they're worse, but what happened to consideration and understanding that the world(/valve) isn't actually out to get you.[/QUOTE] Valve are notoriously incompetent; their decisions tend to be pretty easy to shit on, especially something as dumb as this. The [i]only[/i] "illegitimate" party this fucks over is key reseller sites (which may have been their intention anyways, all of valves public statements have been sketchy as fuck lately).
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50830672]Hell is paved with good intentions[/QUOTE] And the internet is paved with hyperbole, false dichotomies and manufactured outrage. [editline]5th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Tobba;50830680]Valve are notoriously incompetent; their decisions tend to be pretty easy to shit on, especially something as dumb as this. The [i]only[/i] "illegitimate" party this fucks over is key reseller sites (which may have been their intention anyways, all of valves public statements have been sketchy as fuck lately).[/QUOTE] Are we living in a world where people don't stockpile csgo copies for cheating purposes? Last I checked they did.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50830638]It's a cat and mouse game; there is no permanent solution for cheaters because of these annoying things called laws and human rights. What would you have Valve do to combat alt inventory stockpiling?[/QUOTE] why not combat the actual cheating instead? Blizzard was able to with their [I]first[/I] FPS game ever in Overwatch. people can't even switch PCs without getting a ban a day later. and while Blizzard might be much bigger than Valve, CSGO is a massively popular game with millions of dollars worth of prize money in the competitive scene. with that much motivation to combat cheating, this is the best they can come up with?
[QUOTE=Anti Christ;50830631]oh i can still do everything i want on steam. you missed my point, and im not surprised, because like i said, youre not looking to have a discussion. youre too blinded by your hate boner for cheaters. i'll gladly discuss this with someone more mature and level headed than you, but not you. youre worthless to spend any time talking to.[/QUOTE]So you're just making up some hypothetical that doesn't even actually base itself off what this does ("I can't gift [I]ANY[/I] of these now!"), and I won't play along. I'm not blinded by a hatred of cheaters, I just don't like stupid outrage. Talk about level headed while screeching about something with hyperbole and half-truth.
This felt improvized.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830681]Are we living in a world where people don't stockpile csgo copies for cheating purposes? Last I checked they did.[/QUOTE] You stockpile accounts now, not gifts. They didn't allow gifting during the summer sale, so the solution is obvious. Level 2 CS:GO accounts go for about $11 currently.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50830698]The internet isn't physical, therefor cannot be paved[/QUOTE] I believe the road to hell is also a metaphor, therefore most builders would say paving that would be optimistic :v:
[QUOTE=LSK;50830651]I really don't see why it's hard for you to understand why this is kinda pointless and will harm people that do giveaways and stuff. It's the simplest thing yet you just can't wrap it around your head.[/QUOTE] Because giveaways are a minor thing that at the end of the day don't take priority.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50830543]How does this punish legitimate users? It literally fucking doesn't unless they're massively irresponsible.[/QUOTE] Do you personally know everyone on your friendlist well enough to know they will never ever cheat? What if someone you gifted a game to eventually decides to cheat on it and gets banned? You'd be upset because you were going to get a friend into that game but can no longer gift it to them. So yes, please keep telling us how legitimate users won't be punished.
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830685]why not combat the actual cheating instead? Blizzard was able to with their [I]first[/I] FPS game ever in Overwatch. people can't even switch PCs without getting a ban a day later. and while Blizzard might be much bigger than Valve, CSGO is a massively popular game with millions of dollars worth of prize money in the competitive scene. with that much motivation to combat cheating, this is the best they can come up with?[/QUOTE] If it's that easy why don't you apply at Valve and straighten their shit out for them? I'm sure it's fucktons easier to protect Overwatch from the start against the latest hacking techniques compared to trying to patch together the version of Source used in CS:GO. Source 2 isn't out yet (at least not for CS:GO), and it's not worth Valve's time to perform a complete overhaul of the Source (1) engine, which is basically what they'd need to do in order to satisfy you. That's where your comparison is flawed.
[QUOTE=Tobba;50830701]You stockpile accounts now, not gifts. They didn't allow gifting during the summer sale, so the solution is obvious. Level 2 CS:GO accounts go for about $11 currently.[/QUOTE] As I said above, nothing is ever going to stop cheating entirely. What this does is raise the bar of effort required to cheat. That stops some more people. Account buying has risks, so those who previously gifted games to themselves now have to go up a level of investment of time, effort and money, plus the errort to make level 2 accounts goes up, therefore cost should increase. I get that this will help me a lot, hurt me not at all, while other cases will be different. I honestly understand why people would object. It's the inability to think about it in a level headed way which is both unsurprising and disappointing. [editline]5th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;50830728]Yeah, and a road to hell would honestly just be potholes.[/QUOTE] But how can you have a pothole if there's no road :godzing:
While we're at it: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EdNxpDBCNY[/media] Better hope your friends aren't dumb enough to do that either.
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830685]why not combat the actual cheating instead? Blizzard was able to with their [I]first[/I] FPS game ever in Overwatch. people can't even switch PCs without getting a ban a day later. and while Blizzard might be much bigger than Valve, CSGO is a massively popular game with millions of dollars worth of prize money in the competitive scene. with that much motivation to combat cheating, this is the best they can come up with?[/QUOTE] Blizzard took a blanket approach of hardware, IP, and several other methods. You know what happened last time valve did something like that? Outrage! And that just stopped them for now. They can always come back, just like so many others. Rockstar banned a lot of hackers in GTAV but there are still plenty left because the more determined ones just continue to best the system.
[QUOTE=Zet;50830724]Do you personally know everyone on your friendlist well enough to know they will never ever cheat? What if someone you gifted a game to eventually decides to cheat on it and gets banned? You'd be upset because you were going to get a friend into that game but can no longer gift it to them. So yes, please keep telling us how legitimate users won't be punished.[/QUOTE] Don't know about anyone else, but I don't hand out random gifts to people I don't know on my friends list. The people I gift to are my actual friends. With the exception of those who do giveaways, who randomly gives gifts to people they don't know well enough to trust on a vac ban?
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830745]As I said above, nothing is ever going to stop cheating entirely. What this does is raise the bar of effort required to cheat. That stops some more people. Account buying has risks, so those who previously gifted games to themselves now have to go up a level of investment of time, effort and money, plus the errort to make level 2 accounts goes up, therefore cost should increase. [/QUOTE] It doesn't increase the cost of getting accounts at all. Nowadays people have even set up automated stores for buying accounts (instead of having to add some random skype, which was actually more reliable than you'd think) [editline]5th August 2016[/editline] This just doesn't affect cheaters.
[QUOTE=Zet;50830724]Do you personally know everyone on your friendlist well enough to know they will never ever cheat? What if someone you gifted a game to eventually decides to cheat on it and gets banned? You'd be upset because you were going to get a friend into that game but can no longer gift it to them. So yes, please keep telling us how legitimate users won't be punished.[/QUOTE] No, I don't know most of them. So I don't give them games if for just that reason. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Tobba;50830787]It doesn't increase the cost of getting accounts at all. Nowadays people have even set up automated stores for buying accounts (instead of having to add some random skype, which was actually more reliable than you'd think) [editline]5th August 2016[/editline] This just doesn't affect cheaters.[/QUOTE] It only doesn't if you're looking for those scenarios where people have a way around the system, like every system has. I mean, VAC is pointless because people can just buy alt accounts, it hasn't stopped cheating!
[QUOTE=Tobba;50830787]It doesn't increase the cost of getting accounts at all. Nowadays people have even set up automated stores for buying accounts (instead of having to add some random skype, which was actually more reliable than you'd think) [editline]5th August 2016[/editline] This just doesn't affect cheaters at all.[/QUOTE] The first point still stands: the leap of faith that some random stranger won't scam you is enough to put some more people off. Not everyone. Just more.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50830688]So you're just making up some hypothetical that doesn't even actually base itself off what this does ("I can't gift [I]ANY[/I] of these now!"), and I won't play along. I'm not blinded by a hatred of cheaters, I just don't like stupid outrage. Talk about level headed while screeching about something with hyperbole and half-truth.[/QUOTE] h-h-holy shit, this is the last time im responding to you. im going to break down exactly why you're wrong. [quote]So you're just making up some hypothetical that doesn't even actually base itself off what this does ("I can't gift [I]ANY[/I] of these now!"),[/quote] Yes and no. This was announced all of one hour ago. What the hell else do you expect me to use? I'm using a real life example that happened to me. I bought several copies of the game for my circle of friends. One of us got banned. Under this new rule, I would be punished for my friend having gotten banned. Despite the fact that none of us cheated. You don't see the problem though, so I'll continue to break it down for you. This makes it so that now every time I buy a game for a friend, I'm sticking my accounts neck on the line. I have to hope there's never anything that goes wrong, such as being placed in a modded lobby, or a common program being detected as a VAC cheat. Luckily, those things never happen though, right? This literally gives me a reason to be [B]worried[/B] about buying games for friends. Why the hell should I ever have to risk anything happening to punish my account just for gifting a game? Especially when something as simple as a three strike rule would absolutely solve that problem. [quote]and I won't play along.[/quote] No you've just willfully misinterpreted every post in this thread so far to suit your hatred against cheaters? Or maybe you're not. Who knows, but you're arguing from the viewpoint of "anyone who doesn't like this has only malicious intent" and that says a lot about you and your inability to actually discuss a topic without getting emotional. [quote]I'm not blinded by a hatred of cheaters, I just don't like stupid outrage.[/quote] You absolutely are. Or maybe I'm wrong and I'm just not interested in seeing things from your perspective. Sucks, doesn't it? To sum it up, since I have no doubt you've misinterpreted every word so far: I should [B]never[/B] have to worry that my account will be punished because I gifted a game to a friend. Yet, with this new rule, I absolutely will. This new rule will put me in a position to say "Nope, sorry man, I'm not buying that game for us to play together. I've invested too much in my account to risk that on you.", yet if I were cheating, I'd just make a new account and skirt around the rules entirely.
Well this is definately going to make this year a challange.
I'm guessing it's to stop people associating themselves with hackers and help alienate them from other players.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50830733]If it's that easy why don't you apply at Valve and straighten their shit out for them? I'm sure it's fucktons easier to protect Overwatch from the start against the latest hacking techniques compared to trying to patch together the version of Source used in CS:GO. Source 2 isn't out yet (at least not for CS:GO), and it's not worth Valve's time to perform a complete overhaul of the Source (1) engine, which is basically what they'd need to do in order to satisfy you. That's where your comparison is flawed.[/QUOTE] When did I ever say it was easy? I said that with such an incredible amount of money at stake, combatting cheating should be a much more important issue to them and their solutions should reflect that. This solution doesn't reflect that at all. Rather than preventing cheating, it just raises the effort required to cheat by an arguably small amount for actual cheaters while at the same time fucking legitimate consumers that want to buy their friends games so they can play together.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;50830824]zedacon you are the only person in this thread who has an undying trust of the vac system 100%[/QUOTE] It's irresponsible to give apparently Is zedscon the grinch in disguise
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50830767]Blizzard took a blanket approach of hardware, IP, and several other methods. You know what happened last time valve did something like that? Outrage! And that just stopped them for now. They can always come back, just like so many others. Rockstar banned a lot of hackers in GTAV but there are still plenty left because the more determined ones just continue to best the system.[/QUOTE] So Valve instead decided to go with this route that still causes outrage while screwing legitimate players at the same time?
[QUOTE=Anti Christ;50830813]-long post-[/QUOTE] You're making everything so incredibly loaded as if valve are out to get you with this change and by disagreeing with it being an overall bad thing Zed is saying you deserve a bad or something. I should never have to sit through a game where the other team is clearly cheating and loads of my time is wasted. Sadly, there are people who aren't interested in playing fair to either of our interests so valve has to try and find a middle ground of reducing cheaters while keeping steam mechanics for innocent users. I'd support a switch to 3 strikes. Also, is not being able to gift a specific game really as bad as you're making it out to be?
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830769]Don't know about anyone else, but I don't hand out random gifts to people I don't know on my friends list. The people I gift to are my actual friends. With the exception of those who do giveaways, who randomly gives gifts to people they don't know well enough to trust on a vac ban?[/QUOTE] "I don't use these features so who cares if they ruin them" Do you really think it's just dandy to effect fucktons of people because you personally don't use the inventory or give away?
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830850]So Valve instead decided to go with this route that still causes outrage while screwing legitimate players at the same time?[/QUOTE] Valve could hand out kittens and people would find a way to be upset. Or they could not hand out kittens and they're still Satan. There's no "everyone's happy" solution, short of the kittens pacifying the cold hearts of cheaters and bringing about world peace.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830857]You're making everything so incredibly loaded as if valve are out to get you with this change and by disagreeing with it being an overall bad thing Zed is saying you deserve a bad or something. I should never have to sit through a game where the other team is clearly cheating and loads of my time is wasted. Sadly, there are people who aren't interested in playing fair to either of our interests so valve has to try and find a middle ground of reducing cheaters while keeping steam mechanics for innocent users. I'd support a switch to 3 strikes. Also, is not being able to gift a specific game really as bad as you're making it out to be?[/QUOTE] Yeah. Not being able to buy any of my friends a game cause one person I gave it to fucked up is a shitty thing to happen. If I ever make any new friends that I want to play with who can't afford the game right at that moment while I can, we're just shit outta luck. And again, as stated in this thread this will [I]barely[/I] stop cheaters. They'll just stack up accounts now instead of gifts.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830857]You're making everything so incredibly loaded as if valve are out to get you with this change and by disagreeing with it being an overall bad thing Zed is saying you deserve a bad or something. I should never have to sit through a game where the other team is clearly cheating and loads of my time is wasted. Sadly, there are people who aren't interested in playing fair to either of our interests so valve has to try and find a middle ground of reducing cheaters while keeping steam mechanics for innocent users. I'd support a switch to 3 strikes. Also, is not being able to gift a specific game really as bad as you're making it out to be?[/QUOTE] Valve isn't out to get me, of course not. I look at steam in the same way I look at amazon. If I bought something for a friend on amazon, and a few weeks later, they got arrested for being a drug dealer, should [B]I[/B] be no longer allowed to purchase things for other people on amazon? Of course not, that's crazy. But that's no longer the case on steam, and I'm seriously going to reconsider gifting games because of this. Yet all it would take to make this fine with me is a three strike system. It's so close to a good change, but that little bit right there makes it absolutely unacceptable, imo.
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