• Steam's new gifting restrictions regarding VAC-enabled games
    200 replies, posted
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830866]Valve could hand out kittens and people would find a way to be upset. Or they could not hand out kittens and they're still Satan. There's no "everyone's happy" solution, short of the kittens pacifying the cold hearts of cheaters and bringing about world peace.[/QUOTE] You completely missed what I was saying.
[quote]VAC and Game Ban enabled games can either be bought for your own account, or gifted immediately. They can no longer be saved to your inventory for trading purposes.[/quote] How is everyone ignoring the fact that the games can't be used in trading anymore? Also that the stupid effect is applied to GAME BANS TOO The thing where if you complain about something on the forums or someone makes a fuss about you to the devs a dev can just give you one like "get fucked"
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50830861]"I don't use these features so who cares if they ruin them" Do you really think it's just dandy to effect fucktons of people because you personally don't use the inventory or give away?[/QUOTE] I was asking whether other people did often gift multiple copies of the same game to a necessity where this has a significant negative impact on them because my personal experience hasn't seen that, but it's possible other people do that. No one has responded with "yes, I've gifted this game 5 times" or "yes, I have this reason", which is what I as asking about. It helps if you try and have a genuine conversation rather than looking for the worst possible option.
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830870]Yeah. Not being able to buy any of my friends a game cause one person I gave it to fucked up is a shitty thing to happen. If I ever make any new friends that I want to play with who can't afford the game right at that moment while I can, we're just shit outta luck. And again, as stated in this thread this will [I]barely[/I] stop cheaters. They'll just stack up accounts now instead of gifts.[/QUOTE] It forces people to buy from account sellers or go to reasonable lengths to get accounts. It stops some cheaters. As I've said, the fact it stops you sucks, but how often does that occur? Legitimate question.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830866]Valve could hand out kittens and people would find a way to be upset. Or they could not hand out kittens and they're still Satan. There's no "everyone's happy" solution, short of the kittens pacifying the cold hearts of cheaters and bringing about world peace.[/QUOTE] Weren't you just talking about false equivalency
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830826]When did I ever say it was easy? I said that with such an incredible amount of money at stake, combatting cheating should be a much more important issue to them and their solutions should reflect that. This solution doesn't reflect that at all. Rather than preventing cheating, it just raises the effort required to cheat by an arguably small amount for actual cheaters while at the same time fucking legitimate consumers that want to buy their friends games so they can play together.[/QUOTE] It only fucks legitimate consumers over if they're friends with morons who get themselves banned. Now, granted, this certainly could and probably will happen to some careless users, but "fucking legitimate consumers" is a bit of a shrill tone for this, yeah? It's not like they're being globally VAC banned for being a gifter of games to people who later get themselves VAC'd.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830892]It forces people to buy from account sellers or go to reasonable lengths to get accounts. It stops some cheaters. As I've said, the fact it stops you sucks, but how often does that occur? Legitimate question.[/QUOTE] More often than it would any actual chronic cheater
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50830883]Also that the stupid effect is applied to GAME BANS TOO The thing where if you complain about something on the forums or someone makes a fuss about you to the devs a dev can just give you one like "get fucked"[/QUOTE] If a dev is that shitty why would you worry about buying more copies for friends after being cockslapped without reason like that?
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830882]You completely missed what I was saying.[/QUOTE] My point is theyre going to face outrage whatever they do. They picked an option with a reasonably small impact on people whilst still stopping cheaters. The other time they faced people who actually lost things which were more valuable than the ability to gift mw3. [editline]5th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50830898]More often than it would any actual chronic cheater[/QUOTE] I was asking for numbers/examples. That statement is pure speculation.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830901] I was asking for numbers/examples. That statement is pure speculation.[/QUOTE] Point me to even one cheater this stopped because I and many here are effected by this
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50830894]It only fucks legitimate consumers over if they're friends with morons who get themselves banned. Now, granted, this certainly could and probably will happen to some careless users, but "fucking legitimate consumers" is a bit of a shrill tone for this, yeah? It's not like they're being globally VAC banned for being a gifter of games to people who later get themselves VAC'd.[/QUOTE] So none of your friends have ever done anything stupid? And yes, they are fucking legitimate consumers by removing privileges from them based on the actions of others. Valve is essentially saying it's my fault that the person I gave the game to cheated. Not just theirs, but mine as well. Why should I get screwed if someone I gave a game to decided he got fed up and wanted to cheat?
[QUOTE=Anti Christ;50830813] Yes and no. This was announced all of one hour ago. What the hell else do you expect me to use? I'm using a real life example that happened to me. I bought several copies of the game for my circle of friends. One of us got banned. Under this new rule, I would be punished for my friend having gotten banned. Despite the fact that none of us cheated.[/QUOTE]For starters this assumes it applies retroactively. It well may, in which case yeah you can't send copies of it any more. Unfortunate but minor. You can still buy and gift other games and can still play yourself. [QUOTE]This makes it so that now every time I buy a game for a friend, I'm sticking my accounts neck on the line. I have to hope there's never anything that goes wrong, such as being placed in a modded lobby, or a common program being detected as a VAC cheat. Luckily, those things never happen though, right? This literally gives me a reason to be [B]worried[/B] about buying games for friends. Why the hell should I ever have to risk anything happening to punish my account just for gifting a game? Especially when something as simple as a three strike rule would absolutely solve that problem.[/QUOTE]Only give games to people you trust and believe are responsible enough to not fuck around. And false positives are few and far between, and get reversed when caught. [QUOTE]No you've just willfully misinterpreted every post in this thread so far to suit your hatred against cheaters? Or maybe you're not. Who knows, but you're arguing from the viewpoint of "anyone who doesn't like this has only malicious intent" and that says a lot about you and your inability to actually discuss a topic without getting emotional.[/QUOTE]You couldn't even been honest about how the system works with your half-true hypothetical. Gonna talk about willful misinterpretation. And make some, "You just hate cheaters!" screech like it makes some difference or defeats the argument. [QUOTE]To sum it up, since I have no doubt you've misinterpreted every word so far: I should [B]never[/B] have to worry that my account will be punished because I gifted a game to a friend. Yet, with this new rule, I absolutely will. This new rule will put me in a position to say "Nope, sorry man, I'm not buying that game for us to play together. I've invested too much in my account to risk that on you.", yet if I were cheating, I'd just make a new account and skirt around the rules entirely.[/QUOTE] Irresponsibility gets punished, not checking that your friends are going to not fuck around and get banned when you give them something is irresponsible. Fuck, if I gifted a game to a friend and they got banned I'd be pissed at them for being a fuckhead and getting banned because that means I wasted money on them being stupid. And going back to how cheaters can just make a new account ks stupid because that has always been an option for cheaters with virtually everything. Blizzard is the only kne who has pushed the hardest against that by having many blanket ban conditions down to the hardware level. The last time Valve tried anything near that level people pitched a bitch fit.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50830914]Point me to even one cheater this stopped because I and many here are effected by this[/QUOTE] I don't associate with cheaters. Ive unfriended people on cs for having knowingly played with cheaters in the team. It's pretty evident from playing cs and basic understanding of why people cheat that making it harder means more people don't cheat.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50830894]It only fucks legitimate consumers over if they're friends with morons who get themselves banned. Now, granted, this certainly could and probably will happen to some careless users, but "fucking legitimate consumers" is a bit of a shrill tone for this, yeah? It's not like they're being globally VAC banned for being a gifter of games to people who later get themselves VAC'd.[/QUOTE] Ok so legitimate users that have literally done nothing can't trade for games, how exactly is this "only people who's friends got banned" and how exactly is it fair to take privileges away from people over something so trivial
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830901]My point is theyre going to face outrage whatever they do. They picked an option with a reasonably small impact on people whilst still stopping cheaters. The other time they faced people who actually lost things which were more valuable than the ability to gift mw3. [editline]5th August 2016[/editline] I was asking for numbers/examples. That statement is pure speculation.[/QUOTE] Again, you completely missed why I said what I did. Read the post I was replying to and then use that as the context for why I said what I said.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50830900]If a dev is that shitty why would you worry about buying more copies for friends after being cockslapped without reason like that?[/QUOTE] Oh my fucking god you didn't even read the op did you If they get banned at all any games you've gifted to them are barred. If you gifted him CSS and he gets banned by Orion devs or something you're fucked
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830935]I don't associate with cheaters. Ive unfriended people on cs for having knowingly played with cheaters in the team. It's pretty evident from playing cs and basic understanding of why people cheat that making it harder means more people don't cheat.[/QUOTE] Except this [B]doesn't[/B] make it harder for people who cheat. Do you really think it's that difficult to stack up on CSGO accounts? In the end this will pretty much only affect legitimate users in a shitty way.
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830950]Except this [B]doesn't[/B] make it harder for people who cheat. Do you really think it's that difficult to stack up on CSGO accounts?[/QUOTE] If I don't trust other vendors to provide csgo accounts and not scam me, which, considering their business, would not be exactly surprising, not being able to buy my own copies without going through the hassle of adding a new payment method to an account etc increases the difficulty. Again, it doesn't stop everyone. It just stops some people.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50830934]For starters this assumes it applies retroactively. It well may, in which case yeah you can't send copies of it any more. Unfortunate but minor. You can still buy and gift other games and can still play yourself. Only give games to people you trust and believe are responsible enough to not fuck around. And false positives are few and far between, and get reversed when caught. You couldn't even been honest about how the system works with your half-true hypothetical. Gonna talk about willful misinterpretation. And make some, "You just hate cheaters!" screech like it makes some difference or defeats the argument. Irresponsibility gets punished, not checking that your friends are going to not fuck around and get banned when you give them so[/QUOTE] how do you check that your friends aren't going to act stupid one day? implement your own anti-cheat? lol seriously.
when do they start vac banning everyone in your friends list and local area because you cheated
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830935]I don't associate with cheaters. Ive unfriended people on cs for having knowingly played with cheaters in the team. It's pretty evident from playing cs and basic understanding of why people cheat that making it harder means more people don't cheat.[/QUOTE] You're dodging. This doesn't stop a single person serious about cheating. "basic understanding" ridiculous
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830962]If I don't trust other vendors to provide csgo accounts and not scam me, which, considering their business, would not be exactly surprising, not being able to buy my own copies without going through the hassle of adding a new payment method to an account etc increases the difficulty. Again, it doesn't stop everyone. It just stops some people.[/QUOTE] Yeah and the amount of cheaters it'll stops pales in comparison to the amount of legitimate users it screws in the end.
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830950]Except this [B]doesn't[/B] make it harder for people who cheat. Do you really think it's that difficult to stack up on CSGO accounts? In the end this will pretty much only affect legitimate users in a shitty way.[/QUOTE] I think he does know how easy it is and is trolling considering he has 3 steam alts all with 100s of CSGO hours
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50830968]You're dodging. This doesn't stop a single person serious about cheating. "basic understanding" ridiculous[/QUOTE] Read my post a few pages back. It's long, can't miss it. You'll never stop the most determined cheaters, but every time you raise the bar you get rid of some more of the less determined ones. I have to get up tomorrow so I'm gonna end with this: Valve made a trade-off. They decided that significant numbers of cheaters bulk buy on one account repeatedly and most people don't buy games repeatedly as gifts. If you're one of the people hit but the collateral, then that sucks and I hope you find a way around it. It won't stop all cheaters but it will stop some and when you combine it with every other method they've been doing a very good job compared to a year ago. With that, good night and I hope you all have a nice, friend vac banned free day.
-whatever, I'd rather not continue stupid arguments in SH-
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50830978] [quote] If you gift a game to someone who gets permanently banned, you won’t be able to gift that game again.[/quote] Are we reading the same OP?[/QUOTE] ...yes and my point is right there, and in other parts Edit: [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50830978]-whatever, I'd rather not continue stupid arguments in SH-[/QUOTE] "I can't read so I'll snip and say everyone else is stupid" At least have dignity when you make a mistake
[QUOTE=ShazzyFreak0;50830965]how do you check that your friends aren't going to act stupid one day? implement your own anti-cheat? lol seriously.[/QUOTE]Know the people you're sending shit to and don't make friends with people who hack. Or if you do make friends with people who hack, don't give them shit because they're going to get banned and you wasted your money on them anyway. Why would you want to buy something for someone you know will throw it away anyway?
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50830978]-whatever, I'd rather not continue stupid arguments in SH-[/QUOTE] what a smug way to leave a conversation lol. you can't think of anything else to say so you just ~exit~ the thread?
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50830996]Know the people you're sending shit to and don't make friends with people who hack. Or if you do make friends with people who hack, don't give them shit because they're going to get banned and you wasted your money on them anyway. Why would you want to buy something for someone you know will throw it away anyway?[/QUOTE] Hey grinch can I refer to you for those visions of the future so I know who not to gift to? [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] Cheating isn't even the only way to get banned
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50830941]Ok so legitimate users that have literally done nothing can't trade for games, how exactly is this "only people who's friends got banned" and how exactly is it fair to take privileges away from people over something so trivial[/QUOTE]Except you did do something, you enabled a cheater by giving them something to cheat on. If you give CS:GO to someone who cheats, you've just given them the ability to ruin the game for others. You enabled that. If they couldn't get the game for themselves without your help, they can't fuck over others.
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