• Steam's new gifting restrictions regarding VAC-enabled games
    200 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The bird Man;50831143]If innocent people are punished in any way, there's a problem with the system.[/QUOTE] nope, its your fault somebody else did something. you need to police everyone on your friends list, or just be more cautious, duh.
Trusted employe.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50831142]People playing Overwatch are getting banned because their sibling hacked on their account. [/QUOTE] funny thing about this is that's completely different and has nothing to do with gifting shit to people. It's also a very specific situation surrounding account security, not trusting everyone around you. It's their fault for not having the basic common sense to understand basic account security. But I guess collateral damage is OK because you can't avoid it even if it's a side effect of a system that will ultimately do more harm than good maybe we should suspend the licenses of people who sell their used cars to people because that said person did something bad. It's their fault for trusting someone irresponsible!
[QUOTE=Anti Christ;50831162] or just be more cautious, duh.[/QUOTE]Bingo. Its really just that simple.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50831151]Not really at all actually. Just that if you don't know them well and trust them, you shouldn't be giving them games. That isn't saying you can or should try to do that with everyone on your friends list at all, its pretty much in the exact opposite direction from that really.[/QUOTE] Man where were you to tell me I couldn't trust the people that hurt me When are you gonna use your powers to help instead of selfishly using them to predict who not to buy games
Minority Report?
[QUOTE=J!NX;50831165]funny thing about this is that's completely different and has nothing to do with gifting shit to people. It's also a very specific situation surrounding account security, not trusting everyone around you. It's their fault for not having the basic common sense to understand basic account security. But I guess collateral damage is OK because you can't avoid it even if it's a side effect of a system that will ultimately do more harm than good[/QUOTE]Actually, I was talking about the sibling hacking on the sibling's account. Because these bans go hardware deep, any account signing on to a banned system also gets banned. It's to stop people from making new accounts on new emails and cards because its pretty damn hard to buy a brand new computer just to play buy a new game and play that way.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50831181]Actually, [B]I was talking about the sibling hacking on the sibling's account[/B]. Because these bans go hardware deep, any account signing on to a banned system also gets banned. It's to stop people from making new accounts on new emails and cards because its pretty damn hard to buy a brand new computer just to play buy a new game and play that way.[/QUOTE] I know. It's basic account security to not share your account period. If they cheat on that account that account should get banned and the account owner should be held responsible for their stupidity it's also completely different because this isn't about sharing accounts at all, this is about punishing people for sharing games. There should be 0 risk in gifting someone something, that's fucking silly, no matter how minor the infraction is.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50831170]Man where were you to tell me I couldn't trust the people that hurt me When are you gonna use your powers to help instead of selfishly using them to predict who not to buy games[/QUOTE]I don't know anything about who hurt you or whatever. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;50831186]I know. It's basic account security to not share your account period. If they cheat on that account that account should get banned and the account owner should be held responsible for their stupidity[/QUOTE]No, you're literally missing what I'm saying. The main person has Account A. The sibling has Account B. The sibling hacks and Account B gets banned. Account A also gets banned for signing in on that same computer.
You said hacked on their [b]account[/b] in the first place so which is it
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50831215]You said hacked on their [b]account[/b] in the first place so which is it[/QUOTE] The vagueness of the English language. The sibling hacked on their (the sibling being the object of the pronoun,) account.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50831181]I was talking about the sibling hacking on the sibling's account.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50831142]People playing Overwatch are getting banned because their sibling hacked on their account.[/QUOTE] whatever meanings aside, this is something that still has to do with the same computer VS punishing people that may not even be in the same continent. So I'm still not sure what this has to do with anything?
[QUOTE=J!NX;50831239]whatever meanings aside, this is something that still has to do with the same computer VS punishing people that may not even be in the same continent. So I'm still not sure what this has to do with anything?[/QUOTE] It's about collateral. Innocent players are getting banned for things they didn't do and had no control over, may well not have even been aware of. Not just banned from trading or gifting a game, but outright entirely from playing it. And they can't fix that unless they buy all new hardware.
[QUOTE]VAC and Game Ban enabled games can either be bought for your own account, or gifted immediately. They can no longer be saved to your inventory for trading purposes.[/QUOTE] So wait, If I buy a bundle with some games I already have, I won't get the extra games in my inventory any more?
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50831286]It's about collateral. Innocent players are getting banned for things they didn't do and had no control over, may well not have even been aware of. Not just banned from trading or gifting a game, but outright entirely from playing it. And they can't fix that unless they buy all new hardware.[/QUOTE] And how does this actually relate? at all? This would have made sense if the steam accounts had the same exact hardware ID's, but this is isn't the case at all. You also can't tell if they're the same people on one computer or not either. You can blantantly tell however when someones gifting something and also have massively different hardware and live on the other side of the planet.
[QUOTE=J!NX;50831320]And how does this actually relate? at all? This would have made sense if the steam accounts had the same exact hardware ID's, but this is isn't the case at all. You also can't tell if they're the same people on one computer or not either. You can blantantly tell however when someones gifting something and also have massively different hardware and live on the other side of the planet.[/QUOTE] You can't tell if they're a reseller or a dummy account. They've taken measures to prevent that but like with every system there are ways around it. It's the endless arms race of all security. There is no such thing as the unpickable lock. But you can make newer and better ones that make it harder.
wow good job valve punishing everyone for a group of peoples' wrong doings again good job awesome
[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;50831344]wow good job valve punishing everyone for a group of peoples' wrong doings again good job awesome[/QUOTE] It's not like some propagating virus where if one gets it then everyone they know gets it and then everyone they know and so on. You can still send gifts to others, but you just have to be smart and careful about it. Same as with pretty much anything.
This seems kind of pointless.
[QUOTE=Waffle Lord;50831311]So wait, If I buy a bundle with some games I already have, I won't get the extra games in my inventory any more?[/QUOTE] ooh good point. Guess not?
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50830628]We've got ourselves 5 cheaters. You've got Bobby. He cheats for a bit of a kick, but doesn't care much for it. He's not interested in paying for cheats because he's 13 and doesn't have the money to drop on a cheat, so he uses free cheats. Vac detects all free cheats, so he stops cheating. So, people cry, "WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER 4". So we move on to Danny. He's an adult on a 9-5, and once he's done everything else he doesn't have time to practice cs, so he pays for a wallhack. To stop him, vac gets more sensitive to things drawing onto cs. Danny gets vacced and seen as he doesn't want to spent more money, he moves onto the next game. Whilst it stops Danny, a few people using overlays get banned as well. "YOU'RE ONLY HARMING THE CUSTOMER, THERE'S STILL 3 CHEATERS!" So we get to Dave. He's an 18 year old in summer with a job. He's happy to subscribe to a cheat and buy more copies of the game all day. He gets kicks out of griefing the other team. Valve implements prime mm to hit him. He now gets stuck in games with smurfs, other cheaters and gives up, seen as he doesn't want to register a new phone number to each account every time he has to change. This also leaves those without phones in this hell. Again, the cries come. You've still got 2 left! So we get to here. They stop people being able to convincingly stockpile an infinite stack of games. This hurts those who do giveaways, and those who weirdly gift a game very often, but it also stops Jerry, the bitter griefer who wants to ruin games by spinbotting. And there's one left. He's the guy who's willing to go to the end of the earth to cheat and tbh, he'll always cheat. But he's rare, and so all the prior efforts have taken cheating from being universal once you go over a certain rank, to a one off in thirty games. There's collateral, but it's far less significant than the benefit.[/QUOTE] I'd rather have cheaters every other server than kill giveaways. if someone's cheating I can just move to another server.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50831337]You can't tell if they're a reseller or a dummy account. They've taken measures to prevent that but like with every system there are ways around it. It's the endless arms race of all security. There is no such thing as the unpickable lock. But you can make newer and better ones that make it harder.[/QUOTE] too bad the measures are far too easy to circumvent if you're going to be doing it anyways
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50831372]It's not like some propagating virus where if one gets it then everyone they know gets it and then everyone they know and so on. You can still send gifts to others, but [B]you just have to be smart and careful about it.[/B] Same as with pretty much anything.[/QUOTE] What you're describing is less "being smart and careful" and more "being a fucking psychic". There is NO way of telling for sure that the person you're gifting a game to won't ever cheat in a game, that's ridiculous. And that's if they don't get banned because of a false positive. And because of that, there is [I]always[/I] a risk that your gifting abilities will get restricted, no matter who you're gifting to. The risk is entirely unavoidable, and it's really shortsighted to essentially say "be careful and you'll be fine". Yes, being restricted from gifting certain games isn't nearly as bad as, say, being VAC banned yourself, but the "outrage" is still justified because this "solution" really is completely pointless and hurts way too many innocent people. On top of that, this completely fucks up giveaways. No longer can anyone gift VAC-enabled games, which is just goddamn stupid in the first place. This cuts off one single head of the metaphorical hydra that makes up all the different ways to get CSGO alts, and sure as hell doesn't do shit to stop it. Giveaways are such a big part of the Steam community, and now people can't do them with VAC games without incurring a serious risk on their part, one that could prevent them from ever giving away that game again. That risk did not exist before and should not exist now. It is [I]pointless.[/I]
If VAC or Game-Ban enabled games can no longer be stored in your inventory, then how the fuck was the second measure necessary at all? It's completely redundant and punishes nobody but legitimate users. If cheaters can't stockpile games during sales, that already solves that issue. There's no incentive for a cheater to buy gifts in that case, they'll just buy the game directly on the alt. And this also does nothing about cheaters in 2 out of the top 3 VAC games on Steam so congrats Valve.
It'd be better if they just made it so you can't store them in your inventory across the board rather than making it so you can't gift it any more cheaters are no longer going to do it this way now either way, so it doesn't actually change much lol
[QUOTE=Anti Christ;50831018]you know what's funny about this? [url]http://steamrep.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Fsteamcommunity.com%2Fid%2FColdmute[/url] look how many vac banned people he's friends with. He can't even avoid being friends with cheaters, but he expects everyone else to do it lmao [t]http://i.imgur.com/A7hYvIM.png[/t][/QUOTE] 10 in 114 isn't that crazy. I've got 5 in 92. look at how recent those bans were, for mine the most recent ban was over 6 years ago, and some of them are nearly 9 years old. I don't consider something someone did 9 years ago to be indicative to their character.
glad to know my kindness to gift people can come back to bite me in the ass ill be sure to never give valve any more money to buy games for friends.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;50830427]The fuck is wrong with you people? What did they do wrong here that apparently makes Valve more shit or retarded? This is pretty directly targeted at places that sell games in bulk in the third party like G2A, preventing them from stockpiling games that hackers can buy on the cheap. It also hinders people from just giving their dumbass friends games on new alt accounts over and over when they get banned.[/QUOTE] Both sides have made really good points in this thread (however I think they need to also acknowledge the otherside's argument a bit more) There are some good intentions here which you mentioned, but it also has the potential to fuck up innocent users - this has kinda been Valve's mindset for a while, where everyone is inconvenienced due to a small minority (for example steam cards now needing 15 days before they can be put on market if you don't have phone access etc)
[QUOTE=Wii60;50832761]glad to know my kindness to gift people can come back to bite me in the ass ill be sure to never give valve any more money to buy games for friends.[/QUOTE] I mean, if you remember this past summer sale you should know Valve does NOT want you to buy gifts to friends.
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;50832843]Both sides have made really good points in this thread (however I think they need to also acknowledge the otherside's argument a bit more) There are some good intentions here which you mentioned, but it also has the potential to fuck up innocent users - this has kinda been Valve's mindset for a while, where everyone is inconvenienced due to a small minority (for example steam cards now needing 15 days before they can be put on market if you don't have phone access etc)[/QUOTE] its just another stupid ass rule that is made because of a small minority, yeah
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