• Arkansas Faces Lawsuits Over Plan To Kill 8 Men In 10 Days
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[QUOTE=Judas;52028324]you don't get to pretend you have some moral high ground when you're killing another person[/QUOTE] That's really ironic coming from you. You say [QUOTE=Judas;52019441]when do we bring back hanging for treason?[/QUOTE] in a trump thread and then try to act virtuous about the death penalty here.
Most humane way of execution is nitrogen inhalation. No pain, no gore, quick, cheap. Bullet to head has so many ways of going wrong, and is extremely painful and gory. Its traumatic for the shooter as well as the janitor who has to clean that mess up. Guillotine is another gory, painful death. Hanging is painful and has a high margin of error. Lethal injection is a fucking monetary scam that is basically using a cocktail of bad shit that doesn't always work when there are simpler, more effective and cheaper ways of doing it. Still I'm not for the death penalty solely because of the risk of innocents being executed or people pleading guilty even though they're innocent solely to avoid death, and prosecutors/DAs using that to get easy convictions. Speeding up executions is the last thing we should do. Geriatric care for inmates and overpopulation need to be addressed but the way our prisons work creates many repeat offenders that causes this to be an issue in the first place.
So what are the arguments in support of execution? Its more expensive than prison and clearly doesn't work as a deterrent. What else does it do other than satisfy a desire for revenge?
I remember reading that lethal injection would be way easier, reliable, and humane if they used the chemical they use for euthanizing animals.
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;52029127]I remember reading that lethal injection would be way easier, reliable, and humane if they used the chemical they use for euthanizing animals.[/QUOTE] I'm fairly sure the reason so many lethal injections are botched is because the companies that manufacture the chemicals refuse to supply for use in executions.
[QUOTE=Govna;52028913]Why this isn't common knowledge, I have no idea. Maybe people just don't want to hear about it, or they don't want to do the work themselves. [/QUOTE] Because many people, including myself, trust the studies done in each state that all say they're wasting money over some dude's blog. Also, his math falls apart considering [URL="http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/02/economist-explains-0"]"For prisoners who are actually put to death, the average time that elapses between sentence and execution has risen from six years in the mid-1980s to 16.5 years now." [/URL] And I disagree that the death penalty is necessary in order to carry out justice. Real life isn't an action movie where shooting the bad guy is the happy ending. Dragging the victim's family to appeals court for years, sometimes [I]decades[/I] doesn't bring closure - they have to hear about all that disgusting shit over and over. You're not thinking about the victims because the victims are the only one who have to deal with it while the rest of us read a snippet in the news. I'm not getting into a back and forth, I'm busy and I'm sure you are too. But I implore you to do some more research please.
Wasn't there a documentary that investigated this sort of debate and one of the finding was that being oxygen deprived seems to be one of better methods? Found it [video=youtube;DiEJKvbpOF0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiEJKvbpOF0[/video] Now ofc the issue is how the fuck would you have a chamber like that in prisons or even specific prisons
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52028335]While I am against the death penalty regardless, what is the most humane form of execution?[/QUOTE] Off the top of my head(heh), a bullet to the medulla oblongata(Also known as the apricot by snipers) should be the quickest and least painful way I could think of, kills you so fast that you don't even get the random muscle spasms. Problem with this is that it's quite a hard target to aim for even when the target isn't moving, you'd have to either strap them down or knock them out with anesthetics first(Which then has the same problem as lethal injections that the companies making it is most likely gonna refuse to sell it to them)
There is no "humane" method of killing another individual. The death penalty is inhumane and it's certainly not just. It's simply petty revenge and murder. No government, under [B]any[/B] circumstance, should have the right to execute it's own population. Nobody should be put in a position where they have the right to dictate who does and doesn't have the right to live. It's one thing to remove a dangerous individual from society in order to rehabilitate them and keep the public safe, but killing them outright like an animal? That's sick, and people who support the death penalty in any form are pretty vile. I've never seen a credible argument as to why the death penalthy should exist. Most countries have had the death penalty abolished for a long time, with the exception of a couple of countries such as the United States, which honestly has a terrible and corrupt legal system. And is probably the last country in the world which should be entrusted with carrying out the death penalty. The US should take all the billions and billions they spend on killing people, and put that money to better use. Put that money in to better mental health facilities with a focus on preemptive care. Try to catch people who are currently considered "beyond rehabilitation" early and treat them before they become violent and dangerous. Put a larger focus on CPS and try to remove children and teens from toxic and dangerous environments. Killing people isn't a solution and it doesn't tackle the root of the problem.
[QUOTE=Govna;52028913]It actually is true. Do some basic math using the statistics that are available. [url=http://www.wesleylowe.com/cp.html]There were people who were pointing this out years ago before most of us were even computer literate[/url]:[/QUOTE] I know it's not really relevant, but this website is kind of awesome. [quote] This page was inspired by all of the hate mail I have recieved over the years from anti death penalty crazies about my webpage. These are some of the terms they frequently use. This is a dictionary that you can use to understand the meaning of the terms as they perceive them so that you too can indulge in the sanctimonious hypocricy of the abolitionist movement. Al-Qaeda Terrorist \'al 'ki-da 'ter-er-ist\ n: 1 : troubled and misunderstood human being who can violate human rights with impunity because Americans and Israelis have it coming. America \'am-er-e-ka\ n: 1 a : Nazi Germany b : Saudi Arabia c : Iran d : China e : to be directly compared with any nation that has a bad reputation in the international community provided that they have the death penalty (this means that Japan and Singapore are not to be included in this list even though they have the DP since neither one is infamous enough to degrade the US with a comparison) f: the only source for evil in the world syn see Dystopia[/quote] [quote] Abolitionist's statement : All killing is wrong. What they mean : Its wrong for the state to execute a guilty murderer. Killing the innocent unborn with abortion is OK. Abolitionist's statement : Every human life is precious. What they mean : All murderers are precious. All others are secondary in value and expendable. Abolitionist's statement : Murder is a terrible crime. What they mean : The execution of a murderer is infinitely worse than genocide and slavery combined. Abolitionist's statement : Adolf Hitler also favored the death penalty. What they mean : Jews and vicious murderers are morally identical. [/quote] :what:
[QUOTE=Exploders;52028438]Why not just use the guilotine if you want a showey death[/QUOTE] france tried in the 50s, the public has some hangups on dismemberment
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52028335]While I am against the death penalty regardless, what is the most humane form of execution?[/QUOTE] Imo the most humane form of execution would be oxygen deprivation. Iirc it gives a euphoric feel while severely gimping motor and thinking skills, and eventually you just pass out and not wake up. It's why they tell you to put your oxygen mask on first in depressurized cabins, because if you put them on your entire family first, you might forget how to put it on yourself / forget your in any danger at all and end up dying because of it.
[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;52029203]Wasn't there a documentary that investigated this sort of debate and one of the finding was that being oxygen deprived seems to be one of better methods? Found it [video=youtube;DiEJKvbpOF0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiEJKvbpOF0[/video] Now ofc the issue is how the fuck would you have a chamber like that in prisons or even specific prisons[/QUOTE] no need, nitrogen itself dispensed from a gas mask is enough to kill you almost instantly
How about instead of worrying about finding the most humane way to kill someone you just don't execute them at all.
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;52029127]I remember reading that lethal injection would be way easier, reliable, and humane if they used the chemical they use for euthanizing animals.[/QUOTE] Apparently the reason they don't do that is because they don't want to treat the prisoners like animals. I don't remember where I read that.
How about: We only hold 10 executions per year. That way we lower the total amount, and ensure that only the most brutal and positively guilty prisoners get killed. Also, we go back to a single bullet to the back of the head. (Think a bullet is too "brutal"? If the method of execution causes you moral queasiness, then you shouldn't be executing them in the first place)
Poisoned food seems the best way to me honestly, keep them in prison for a bit make em believe and then strike without even batting an eye.
I swear most of you would be perfectly fine with Trump getting publicly hanged, but the second somebody who was put on death row for a horrible crime that probably destroyed families and lives is set to be executed you all cry foul.
[QUOTE=italics560;52029650]I swear most of you would be perfectly fine with Trump getting publicly hanged, but the second somebody who was put on death row for a horrible crime that probably destroyed families and lives is set to be executed you all cry foul.[/QUOTE] Nice strawman you got there, pal.
[QUOTE=Judas;52028324]you don't get to pretend you have some moral high ground when you're killing another person[/QUOTE] Idk if the guy's a serial kiddie rapist/killer i'd say the executioner is standing on mt. Moral highground anyday
[QUOTE=Snowmew;52029696]Nice strawman you got there, pal.[/QUOTE] How is that a strawman? If somebody thinks differently than you they're automatically wrong? I think executing death row inmates is a good idea and other people think it's bad. Okay, cool, welcome to democracy. But a lot of these same people say some hypocritical shit in other threads, and I'm just pointing it out. Seriously, most of you are the exact same people as hardcore right wingers, just on the other side. It's annoying.
[QUOTE=italics560;52029714]How is that a strawman? If somebody thinks differently than you they're automatically wrong? I think executing death row inmates is a good idea and other people think it's bad. Okay, cool, welcome to democracy. But a lot of these same people say some hypocritical shit in other threads, and I'm just pointing it out. Seriously, most of you are the exact same people as hardcore right wingers, just on the other side. It's annoying.[/QUOTE] Because nobody in this thread said that they'd be "perfectly fine with Trump getting publicly hanged". Nor, frankly, are all of us crying foul at death row executions. In fact I would be more concerned over the idea of Trump being publicly hanged than I am over death row executions. But, of course, good job on dragging Trump into something that has nothing to do with Trump with some lame ass strawman.
[QUOTE=italics560;52029714]How is that a strawman? If somebody thinks differently than you they're automatically wrong? I think executing death row inmates is a good idea and other people think it's bad. Okay, cool, welcome to democracy. But a lot of these same people say some hypocritical shit in other threads, and I'm just pointing it out. Seriously, most of you are the exact same people as hardcore right wingers, just on the other side. It's annoying.[/QUOTE] I support capital punishment. I do not support mob lynchings without due process.
[QUOTE=Zombinie;52029789]I support capital punishment. I do not support mob lynchings without due process.[/QUOTE] Give me a reason why you support capital punishment that doesn't involve getting off over the idea of revenge.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52029808]Give me a reason why you support capital punishment that doesn't involve getting off over the idea of revenge.[/QUOTE] I think some people genuinely don't deserve to continue living. Not just participating in society, but living. So I guess that could be considered revenge if you stretch the definition, not that I care.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;52028768]I would assume part of the reason firing squads and hanging have fallen out of practice is to help preserve the body for the family, assuming they want to give them a funeral. I doubt anyone wants to look into the casket only to see what remains of their head after a bullet went through it, even if it has been cleaned up or partially reconstructed.[/QUOTE] Common misconception. Firing squads usually aim for the heart to preserve the appearance of the body.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;52028404]prison costs money, and the money used to support someone holed up in prison doesn't just grow on trees. also, you can argue that someone who does a horrible crime and kills many people shouldn't have the luxury of being fed and given a bed to sleep in with a roof over their head rent free. criminals put in prison for life also get added security and are isolated from other inmates, so you could argue they've got it better than any of the others who are in risk of being forced into gangs and killed. i'm not arguing one over the other but usually it comes down to this: do we keep the moral high-ground on those convicted and let them live, or do we save the money and end their lives? there's a discussion there also about whether or not a life like that is even worth living. and what do they bring to the rest of society living like that in prison? but if we kill them are we not just trying to make ourselves feel better about the loss of loved ones, and lowering our standards to the criminal's? there's no "correct" answer in today's western society.[/QUOTE] Unforunately I don't have any new statistics that back my statement up but I learnt at a course about capital punishment that stated that death penality is acutally more expensive than prison.
[QUOTE=Snowmew;52029732]Because nobody in this thread said that they'd be "perfectly fine with Trump getting publicly hanged". Nor, frankly, are all of us crying foul at death row executions. In fact I would be more concerned over the idea of Trump being publicly hanged than I am over death row executions. But, of course, good job on dragging Trump into something that has nothing to do with Trump with some lame ass strawman.[/QUOTE] Look earlier in the thread. [editline]29th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52029808]Give me a reason why you support capital punishment that doesn't involve getting off over the idea of revenge.[/QUOTE] It makes economical sense.
[QUOTE=italics560;52030606]Look earlier in the thread. [editline]29th March 2017[/editline] It makes economical sense.[/QUOTE] Death sentences are more expensive than a life in prison due to the numerous appeals that are legally [B]required[/B] to be available to the death sentence-ee. If you remove that, then you create a dangerous system with few checks and balances all to save some money. I guess we know where your priorities are.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52028335]While I am against the death penalty regardless, what is the most humane form of execution?[/QUOTE] Asphyxiation. Specifically nitrogen asphyxiation. You just go to sleep, then die. Your body doesn't register nitrogen buildup, or a lack of oxygen. It does register (and react) to CO2 buildup (that burning feeling when you hold your breath). Just seal a room except for a small vent, and dump a 50 pound tank into the room. Hook them up to a heart monitor, and after a minute or two of zero heartbeat, vent the room. Or apply a mask don't use as much. Either way you can kill anyone but an accomplished free diver or other similarly highly conditioned athlete in a couple of minutes. Cheap, painless, and guaranteed to work. Very minimal special equipment or training required. Oh, and it preserves the body quite well, so if you want organ donations, that's an option. (A morally dubious one because adding incentive to kill people isn't a great idea, but the point is that you could do it).
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