PC Gaming being "held back" by Consoles says Crytek Boss - Polidicks

[QUOTE=thisispain;26344445] the interesting part is the fact that all games start on PC's, but people usually don't think ahead enough for the code [/QUOTE] Uh not really. If you plan on releasing a game on console, you can start making it straight to console. Well obviously programming is done on a pc, but there is no need to make it actually run on pc. [QUOTE=thisispain;26344445] the way "bad ports" come out is actually because developing for consoles is shit easy. you can use a shit load of optimization tricks and libraries and just basically copy-paste your way through optimization. rare did this for nintendo so a lot of people outside of rare got to use the same routines that rare developed for the n64.[/QUOTE] What libraries optimize your game? I am not aware of any, so please share. Unless you're talking about stuff like occlusion or baking, which is available for pc too and doesn't really require any tailoring. [QUOTE=thisispain;26344445] when it goes to PC, usually the development time is not only time limited but also cost limited so they spend little time rewritten the techniques and usually just reinterpret them. this is noticeable in PS3 ports; because the 360 and PC share the same platform, it's easier to migrate their function, while if a company is lazy and doesn't want to figure it out something potentially troubling while porting to OpenGl, they'll just cut it out. [/QUOTE] There are more port games on xbox<>ps3 than there are on xbox<>pc. Pretty much every new game comes out on both xbox and ps3 but only sometimes on pc. [QUOTE=thisispain;26344445] i wish everyone would just use OpenGl, idtech 5 proves it's perfectly fine [/QUOTE] The only part I agree with. [QUOTE=thisispain;26344445] also not to mention, when you use a console, the pipeline is pretty much completely open so you can do some amazing things.[/QUOTE] If console pipeline is open, then pc pipeline is SO open you could fit the universe in it. Seriously, if you try to troll, atleast do it right... [editline]28th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=MrJazzy;26344681]I bought my computer for about 700 euros at the beginning of this year, and it's starting to get slightly outdated now. Mainly the graphic card.[/QUOTE] Outdated as in not top of the row hardware or bad fps in new games?

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;26343963]I'm not anti-pc gaming (hell I'm on my gaming PC now) but I can definitely see the advantages of console gaming as opposed to it. On a console, I can play on a big-ass flatscreen, sitting back on a couch, chilling, which is an experience I can't get hunched over my keyboard. Plus, as I only earn £140 a month, and a large majority of that is bed and board, I'm very lucky I ever got this PC because of my great-uncles inheritance. [editline]28th November 2010[/editline] admittedly, I don't have a big-ass flatscreen, or a couch, but that's neither hither nor thither[/QUOTE] [img]http://shareforus.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/home-theater-pc.jpg[/img] hey look a pc hooked up to a big ass flatscreen

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;26344681]I bought my computer for about 700 euros at the beginning of this year, and it's starting to get slightly outdated now. Mainly the graphic card.[/QUOTE] you should be able to play at least crisis on high for that much. I had my computer for a year and its able to play any game on high like bioshock 1 and 2 its only really bad company that i have to put it on med (about xbox 360 level of graphics)

[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;26344672]Im very poor and I have a pc and like I said before for 500$ you can get a pc that does the same as a ps3[/QUOTE] I'm incredibly poor. I built a PC 2 years ago for a pretty average price (about £600), and I haven't upgraded any integral components (only HDDs) since then. It plays any game on ultra apart from GTA IV and ArmA 2. Plus it does a shitload more than any console.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;26344694]Uh not really. If you plan on releasing a game on console, you can start making it straight to console. Well obviously programming is done on a pc, but there is no need to make it actually run on pc.[/QUOTE] but usually it does run on the PC. the end runtime runs on their development consoles, but usually there's no need for that. it would be very time consuming to have to compile every single build and export it just to test a feature. [QUOTE=johan_sm;26344694]What libraries optimize your game? I am not aware of any, so please share. Unless you're talking about stuff like occlusion or baking, which is available for pc too and doesn't really require any tailoring.[/QUOTE] it's quite complicated, but basically they are pre-built code packages that simply a process within code. when you code a game, you don't make your own language or interpreter do you [QUOTE=johan_sm;26344694]There are more port games on xbox<>ps3 than there are on xbox<>pc. Pretty much every new game comes out on both xbox and ps3 but only sometimes on pc.[/QUOTE] that is irrelevant. [QUOTE=johan_sm;26344694]If console pipeline is open, then pc pipeline is SO open you could fit the universe in it. Seriously, if you try to troll, atleast do it right...[/QUOTE] what? pipeline is the code that runs on a system. with a console one does not have to go through a driver layer because it's all the same hardware.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggys;26344780]you should be able to play at least crisis on high for that much. I had my computer for a year and its able to play any game on high like bioshock 1 and 2 its only really bad company that i have to put it on med (about xbox 360 level of graphics)[/QUOTE] Yeah I can play Crysis on high pretty much. It's just the GPU that is holding me back a little, I'm using a slightly overclocked Radeon HD 5750, really want to upgrade but I can't really get that much of an improvement unless I get a new motherboard so it'll get expensive when I want to upgrade.

Meh. This whole subject has always seemed kind of redundant to me. I constantly read the same arguments, and yet no one stops arguing. It`s a matter of opinion, simple as that. I find a keyboard and mouse (or in my case a laptop and my stupid-ass pad thing) to be pretty uncomfortable, but I find controllers incredibly easy and comfortable to use. It all boils down to preference. Sure you can go on and on about graphics, price, power, etc... In the end, if I like playing Legend of Zelda more than CoD, I`m gonna end up buying the console with Zelda. That`s why I have a Wii and my PC, because they tend to have better games on them (to suit my tastes, anyways.)

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;26344329]I'm sorry that a lot of people see it that way, but the fact that most PC games are sub-par because they were designed for the console in the first place, is a bit of a letdown. A PC game's potential is often really, really dumbed down because it was made with consoles and console gamers in mind.[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing that, I think the point the Crytek guy makes is valid, and I don't know why it's something people are just now realizing. The PC can, theoretically and empirically, provide the best experience for games when properly designed. But it is worth mentioning that we're reaching the point in game technology where graphics and processing power are reaching their peak and fitting in more of the same isn't a viable strategy. What we need is revolutionary ideas and concepts on any platform.

[QUOTE=blerb;26344858]Meh. This whole subject has always seemed kind of redundant to me. I constantly read the same arguments, and yet no one stops arguing. It`s a matter of opinion, simple as that. I find a keyboard and mouse (or in my case a laptop and my stupid-ass pad thing) to be pretty uncomfortable, but I find controllers incredibly easy and comfortable to use. It all boils down to preference. Sure you can go on and on about graphics, price, power, etc... In the end, if I like playing Legend of Zelda more than CoD, I`m gonna end up buying the console with Zelda. That`s why I have a Wii and my PC, because they tend to have better games on them (to suit my tastes, anyways.)[/QUOTE] Thing is though most people don't think about it that way. If you like the Zelda games you're obviously gonna get one of the nintendo consoles, but when you're thinking of getting Call of Duty or Bad Company 2 or Assasins Creed or any such game you'll be getting either a PC, an Xbox 360 or a PS3. Wich one?

[QUOTE=thisispain;26344801]but usually it does run on the PC. the end runtime runs on their development consoles, but usually there's no need for that. it would be very time consuming to have to compile every single build and export it just to test a feature. [/QUOTE] No it usually does not. The compiled code is automatically transferred to the dev console and is playable. You don't need to export anything, just compile. Well you have to compile it even if you want to test it on pc. [QUOTE=thisispain;26344801] it's quite complicated, but basically they are pre-built code packages that simply a process within code. when you code a game, you don't make your own language or interpreter do you [/QUOTE] I didn't ask what a library is, I know what it is. I asked for an example of such library. [QUOTE=thisispain;26344801] that is irrelevant. [/QUOTE] No it's not. You said that devs are lazy when it comes to ogl, but then how come all new games come out on ps3 too even if it uses ogl? [QUOTE=thisispain;26344801] what? pipeline is the code that runs on a system. with a console one does not have to go through a driver layer because it's all the same hardware.[/QUOTE] That doesn't make it "open". Learn what open means.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;26344931]Thing is though most people don't think about it that way. If you like the Zelda games you're obviously gonna get one of the nintendo consoles, but when you're thinking of getting Call of Duty or Bad Company 2 or Assasins Creed or any such game you'll be getting either a PC, an Xbox 360 or a PS3. Wich one?[/QUOTE] Again, it comes down to preference. If you didn`t want to spend too much money, I`d say Xbox. If you roll in cash and you like pretty games, PC. That`s where I was going with what I said, I`m just a bad writer. There`s a lot of deciding factors, it`s up to the consumer to figure it out.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;26344972]No it usually does not. The compiled code is automatically transferred to the dev console and is playable. You don't need to export anything, just compile. Well you have to compile it even if you want to test it on pc.[/QUOTE] look it's a fact that development starts on a PC and code is ran on a PC till it's been compiled and exported properly. [QUOTE=johan_sm;26344972]I didn't ask what a library is, I know what it is. I asked for an example of such library.[/QUOTE] i don't know, i'm not a 360 developer. directx is an example of a library [QUOTE=johan_sm;26344972]No it's not. You said that devs are lazy when it comes to ogl, but then how come all new games come out on ps3 too even if it uses ogl? [/QUOTE] no i said IF a developer was lazy [QUOTE=johan_sm;26344972]That doesn't make it "open". Learn what open means.[/QUOTE] that's what it's called

[QUOTE=thisispain;26345100]look it's a fact that development starts on a PC and code is ran on a PC till it's been compiled and exported properly. [/QUOTE] No it's not. Every game that was made for console is run directly on console. There is no pc code if it wasn't planned. You can't run code until you compile it. And again, you don't need to export anything as the compiled code is automatically transferred to devkit and can be tested. [QUOTE=thisispain;26345100] i don't know, i'm not a 360 developer. directx is an example of a library [/QUOTE] directx doesn't automatically optimize your game. There is no library that you can just copy and paste and it will run faster. These tricks are very game and engine specific. You can't just copy/paste shit. [QUOTE=thisispain;26345100] no i said IF a developer was lazy [/QUOTE]Then by your logic no developer is lazy, sweet. [QUOTE=thisispain;26345100] that's what it's called[/QUOTE] No it's not. Linux is open. Having/not having to go through different drivers does not indicate openness/closeness of the pipeline. I can easily see you know nothing about this matter.

[QUOTE=iPat;26344861]I'm not arguing that, I think the point the Crytek guy makes is valid, and I don't know why it's something people are just now realizing. The PC can, theoretically and empirically, provide the best experience for games when properly designed. But it is worth mentioning that we're reaching the point in game technology where graphics and processing power are reaching their peak and fitting in more of the same isn't a viable strategy. What we need is revolutionary ideas and concepts on any platform.[/QUOTE] That post made little sense. First of all, technology is nowhere near it's peak, graphics may seem very real, but you haven't seen anything yet. There's still lots of limitations that havn't been broken yet. The issue is two things: - Console hardware limitations. Consoles will always have the same hardware, and as such the game needs to be designed to utilize hardware of a similar tier for the PC. - "Console player mindset" the chances are that a large proportion of the gaming population on consoles is filled with morons and simpletons. I know it's sounds elitist, but anybody who has played on Xbox live will know what I'm talking about, there's a lot of pea-brained morons that inhabit the console world. It's an unfortunate consequence of having a gaming system that is easy to purchase and hook up; really, [I]really[/I] stupid people will be able to do it too. There's a fair modicum of stupidity on the PC community as well, but not anywhere near as much. These stereotype-fitting individuals often prefer simpler games with simpler fundamentals. IE: dumbing the game down. Since a developer has to keep marketing in mind, some neat features may get sacrificed for the sake of a 14-button controller and people who find cool features boring.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;26345209] No it's not. Linux is open. Having/not having to go through different drivers does not indicate openness/closeness of the pipeline. I can easily see you know nothing about this matter.[/QUOTE] wwwhat words can have more than one meaning dude

"..Halo's Single Player is worth buying an Xbox console alone." -IGN.com 2002 I am talking, of course, about none other than Halo: Combat Evolved (Halo 1) Which is also available for PC but recently I've found myself only owning a console for the simple use of wireless controllers, stock headsets, motion gaming (not the wii or the ps3 ripoff of the wii) and more importantly, the majority of online players, including the group of friends I know IRL that don't PC game because they lack the funds to afford a suitable computer for the job, and i believe they prefer the console because most of the hardware being the same for everyone mostly making it "fairer".

and fyi, one developer was lazy, the PS3 version of Mafia 2 had some missing graphics

[QUOTE=Tudd;26337742]Until it RROD's.[/QUOTE] sorry to sund noobish but wtf does RROD mean

[QUOTE=doom65;26345745]sorry to sund noobish but wtf does RROD mean[/QUOTE] Red ring of death.

I want a new PC. [editline]28th November 2010[/editline] And a full HD widescreen monitor [editline]28th November 2010[/editline] And Windows 7

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;26346002]I want a new PC. [editline]28th November 2010[/editline] And a full HD widescreen monitor [editline]28th November 2010[/editline] And Windows 7[/QUOTE] Then get off your bum and work some. Also 1080p on pc is not that big

haha, no shit It's more the over-simplification of games that gets me than the graphics

John Carmack hit the nail on the head when he pointed out the market for PC games is not dead, or even piracy rampant but just naturally small. Developers need to realize a game can sell 7 million copies for the PC and that is considered successful. Consoles however are a bigger market thus more profits even if a small percentage buy your game, as we see from launches such as CODMW2

The problem with developers for the PC, like Crytek, is that they get this idea of being superior stuck in their head and then make a TERRIBLY unoptimised game that has ABSURDLY HIGH system requirements. I mean it was a fucking fun game, I loved it, just completed it for the first time yesterday (bought the Maximum Edition the other day for 20AUD). But the DX10 version on Windows 7 kept crashing on the last level. The game was occasionally choppy and laggy up until that last level, then on that very last level it gave a whole new meaning to unoptimised and became almost unplayable. Had to lower the resolution significantly and put all of the settings to low. The thing I like about console gaming is that the developers cater to the hardware given to them. YOU don't have to go out and cater to THEIR game which is shittily optimised and almost kills your system.

[QUOTE=sltungle;26346755]The problem with developers for the PC, like Crytek, is that they get this idea of being superior stuck in their head and then make a TERRIBLY unoptimised game that has ABSURDLY HIGH system requirements. I mean it was a fucking fun game, I loved it, just completed it for the first time yesterday (bought the Maximum Edition the other day for 20AUD). But the DX10 version on Windows 7 kept crashing on the last level. The game was occasionally choppy and laggy up until that last level, then on that very last level it gave a whole new meaning to unoptimised and became almost unplayable. Had to lower the resolution significantly and put all of the settings to low. The thing I like about console gaming is that the developers cater to the hardware given to them. YOU don't have to go out and cater to THEIR game which is shittily optimised and almost kills your system.[/QUOTE] Try playing GTAIV then come back to me and say crysis is unoptimised.

[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;26347365]Try playing GTAIV then come back to me and say crysis is unoptimised.[/QUOTE] the horrors

[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;26347365]Try playing GTAIV then come back to me and say crysis is unoptimised.[/QUOTE] On PC or console? If on PC: that doesn't do anything negative to my argument at all. That just PROVES what I'm saying. If on console: I've got GTA IV on console. It works more-or-less fine for me. [b]Occasionally[/b] I'll out-drive the rendered area of the map (which can be quite amusing), but... doesn't happen too often. The game normally runs very smoothly for me. Draw distance could be a little better, I'll admit.

[QUOTE=sltungle;26347837]On PC or console? [/QUOTE] On PC. Crysis is incredibly optimised relative to GTAIV.

crysis was unoptimized but that's unavoidable on PC titles. it would be unfair to expect any company to test every single hardware and driver configuration

[QUOTE=thisispain;26348140]crysis was unoptimized but that's unavoidable on PC titles. it would be unfair to expect any company to test every single hardware and driver configuration[/QUOTE] thats what betas are for