'Gestapo' tactics meet senior citizens at Yellowstone - Polidicks

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;42466990]uh no [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] to elaborate, national parks are shut down and it's up to the park service to determine the level of guarding, not obama[/QUOTE] Thought so. Thanks for a straight answer.

[QUOTE=Binladen34;42467067]SH Political police of political correctness.[/QUOTE] pff this place can be just as right-wing as Stormfront, it's just that they don't (usually) hate gays here and that apparently makes it a liberal hive of political correctness and feminism

[QUOTE=Cone;42467278]pff this place can be just as right-wing as Stormfront, it's just that they don't (usually) hate gays here and that apparently makes it a liberal hive of political correctness and feminism[/QUOTE] Its more a zerg than a hivemind. The feminists tend to swarm things that involve feminism. Big Shocker there.

[QUOTE=Swilly;42467396]Its more a zerg than a hivemind. The feminists tend to swarm things that involve feminism. Big Shocker there.[/QUOTE] actually, i'd say that it's more the other way around

[QUOTE=mac338;42466730]But still, you got to admit the US is kind of a fearful country, with media propagating all these mass shootings etc., and the circus of American politics.[/QUOTE] This is why I want out of here. EDIT: Oh hey, I just realized that Glaber posted an article that wasn't from Fox News.

[QUOTE=Reshy;42467508]This is why I want out of here. EDIT: Oh hey, I just realized that Glaber posted an article that wasn't from Fox News.[/QUOTE] Abandoning your homeland because you don't like whats on TV and because your government is slightly more stupid than another country's government is p dumb bro.

[QUOTE=Cone;42467429]actually, i'd say that it's more the other way around[/QUOTE] Both sides swarm for it, especially if its about videogames.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42467539]Abandoning your homeland because you don't like whats on TV and because your government is slightly more stupid than another country's government is p dumb bro.[/QUOTE] People are allowed to, you know, not like their "homeland" you know Just because you exited a vagina in American territory doesn't mean you're glued to the country [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] Also "[I]slightly[/I] more stupid" hahaha [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;42467540]Both sides swarm for it, especially if its about videogames.[/QUOTE] People love to circlejerk about things they hate

[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42467555]People are allowed to, you know, not like their "homeland" you know Just because you exited a vagina in American territory doesn't mean you're glued to the country [/QUOTE] I never said that they were? I just said it's dumb to leave to abandon your perfectly adequate life because of a few hundred specific idiots out of a 300 million person population. Just about every government on the planet has a few idiots within it, the difference is is our idiots don't know how to balance a budget without turning it into a political war.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42467621]I never said that they were? I just said it's dumb to leave to abandon your perfectly adequate life[/QUOTE] Why is it dumb

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42467539]Abandoning your homeland because you don't like whats on TV and because your government is slightly more stupid than another country's government is p dumb bro.[/QUOTE] Slightly more stupid is seriously understating the U.S' political problems. And let's not pretend the U.S in general doesn't have a plethora of problems that would make anyone want to emigrate, it's not the ideal place to live in. Far from it, in fact.

[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42467672]Why is it dumb[/QUOTE] If you read the rest of my post you would understand why I think thats dumb. [QUOTE=Melnek;42467773]Slightly more stupid is seriously understating the U.S' political problems. And let's not pretend the U.S in general doesn't have a plethora of problems that would make anyone want to emigrate, it's not the ideal place to live in. Far from it, in fact.[/QUOTE] Every country has problems bud, there isn't a perfect utopia anywhere on this planet and there never will be. Instead of crying and abandoning your country, it's better to actually try and do something about it.

What's the difference between an open park and a closed park? A fucking sign that says "Closed" This whole thing is stupid

[QUOTE=Sobek-;42463405]Armed guards? What? Why? Does everyone just get locked in their houses or something when the US government shuts down? I don't get it. What's even stranger is that it's just a PARK of all things, it's not like anything important was going on there? You'll have to forgive me, I'm Australian, this whole situation is an alien concept to me.[/QUOTE] The United States has national parks and national forests (and national grasslands, but they are identical in function to national forests, so we'll just lump those two together). National parks are federal lands that have strict controls over commercialization and are heavily protected. The National Park Service controls and protects these areas. They are patrolled by interpretive rangers, who are unarmed civilians tasked mostly with being an extra set of eyes and running all of the gates and related facilities (the commercial facilities are handled by private contractors who have made bids to the government and are not considered interpretive rangers). The other patrolling body are law enforcement rangers, who are armed federal law enforcement officers tasked with, unsurprisingly, enforcing the law inside national parks. National forests/grasslands are far more relaxed and permit commercial use and recreational use. So hunting, logging, and livestock grazing may or may not be permitted in these areas. They are protected by the national forest service. The National forest service uses similar officers to the National park service (trained by the same facility) and are functionally identical, but are generally tasked with patrolling a much larger area with far fewer people on it. So national parks are really tightly controlled and national forests are far more relaxed. What is happening here is that a bunch of people inside of Yellowstone (all non law enforcement employees included) had to be rounded up by the law enforcement officers and kicked out of the national park because the park no longer had the necessary basic personnel to safeguard the park from the people and the people from the park. Keeping in mind that the Elk, Bison, Moose, Wolverines, Wolves, Mountain Lions, black bears, and brown bears will all intentionally try to murder humans and all are present in the park (though wolverines are extremely rare), the idea of needing personnel on hand to keep morons from getting themselves murdered is a good one. Furthermore these guys are uniformed police officers like any other. They aren't secret police or some shit. These guys keep people in the hotel because they have to clear out the damn park and having everyone running all over the park makes that impossible. I know that is kind of a weird block of text, but hopefully that sorta clears it up for you. What is happening is undoubtedly not nearly as bad as the article is making it seem. The law enforcement rangers deal with morons all day, but they intentionally chose low paying and low prestige law enforcement jobs because they love the parks, they generally are pretty good folks.

[QUOTE=Squad1993;42463366]Stop blaming the Republicans when both sides are clearly at fault you twats.[/QUOTE] Finally! You are one of the only actually intelligent people left on FP. Thank you. Also isnt it kind of counter productive to have a shit ton of armed guards protecting the national parks? I thought we didnt have enough money to pay these people. Oh wait lets just print more money! Fucking morons.

[QUOTE=crazyjames;42469453]Finally! You are one of the only actually intelligent people left on FP. Thank you. Also isnt it kind of counter productive to have a shit ton of armed guards protecting the national parks? I thought we didnt have enough money to pay these people. Oh wait lets just print more money! Fucking morons.[/QUOTE] They are police for the park getting people out of the park safely. They are not furloughed because federal law enforcement are considered necessary, as are a variety of other positions considered necessary for the custodial management of lands. [url]http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/DOI-Summary-Contingency-Plan.pdf[/url] Currently the government is being held hostage by the Republican party over a bill that has passed Both houses of congress, presidential approval, supreme court approval, and even an election. If it could possibly be any more democratically obtained, I don't see how. Even if the Democrats WANTED to give into the Republicans, it would be an inherently unjust action because the people VOTED FOR IT . The Republicans are almost unilaterally at fault here to the point where it would be comical if most of our government hadn't just been laid the fuck off.

[QUOTE=GunFox;42469293]The United States has national parks and national forests (and national grasslands, but they are identical in function to national forests, so we'll just lump those two together). National parks are federal lands that have strict controls over commercialization and are heavily protected. The National Park Service controls and protects these areas. They are patrolled by interpretive rangers, who are unarmed civilians tasked mostly with being an extra set of eyes and running all of the gates and related facilities (the commercial facilities are handled by private contractors who have made bids to the government and are not considered interpretive rangers). The other patrolling body are law enforcement rangers, who are armed federal law enforcement officers tasked with, unsurprisingly, enforcing the law inside national parks. National forests/grasslands are far more relaxed and permit commercial use and recreational use. So hunting, logging, and livestock grazing may or may not be permitted in these areas. They are protected by the national forest service. The National forest service uses similar officers to the National park service (trained by the same facility) and are functionally identical, but are generally tasked with patrolling a much larger area with far fewer people on it. So national parks are really tightly controlled and national forests are far more relaxed. What is happening here is that a bunch of people inside of Yellowstone (all non law enforcement employees included) had to be rounded up by the law enforcement officers and kicked out of the national park because the park no longer had the necessary basic personnel to safeguard the park from the people and the people from the park. Keeping in mind that the Elk, Bison, Moose, Wolverines, Wolves, Mountain Lions, black bears, and brown bears will all intentionally try to murder humans and all are present in the park (though wolverines are extremely rare), the idea of needing personnel on hand to keep morons from getting themselves murdered is a good one. Furthermore these guys are uniformed police officers like any other. They aren't secret police or some shit. These guys keep people in the hotel because they have to clear out the damn park and having everyone running all over the park makes that impossible. I know that is kind of a weird block of text, but hopefully that sorta clears it up for you. What is happening is undoubtedly not nearly as bad as the article is making it seem. The law enforcement rangers deal with morons all day, but they intentionally chose low paying and low prestige law enforcement jobs because they love the parks, they generally are pretty good folks.[/QUOTE] I love Yellowstone, and I've never met a ranger there that wasn't a total bro. I have family that worked in Yellowstone, and you're totally right, they do it because they love the parks. The article makes it seem as though the rangers rounded up a bunch of old folks at gunpoint and marched them into the buses with their hands up. It's stupid really, that a bunch of tourists that got their vacation cut short are getting more fair press than the people who are getting their careers cut short. At least Livingston got some mention.

Would it not cost more to have all these armed personnel keeping people out of parks then just having the parks open?

These aren't gestapo tactics. That tends to involve a lack of judicial review and people, y'know, disappearing. Not evicting people from public land that's been closed. [editline]9th October 2013[/editline] I mean I guess you could argue the protective custody thing but eh.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42467890]If you read the rest of my post you would understand why I think thats dumb. [/QUOTE] Yes thank you for the tip, I read the rest of your post and it was just as meaningless as the first segment. People can not be happy in their "homeland", and they can look at another patch of dirt with lines around it and say "That's way better" Maybe his life isn't adequate for his expectations Maybe he's disappointed not only with the pathetically incompetent government but with the society at large Maybe he just likes castles and wants to move a European village and look at one all day

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[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;42471065]Would it not cost more to have all these armed personnel keeping people out of parks then just having the parks open?[/QUOTE] Patrolling a border of an area is controlling a thin strip of land around an area, patrolling that area means you have to patrol nearly the entire area you are protecting and working with. Many less people.

[QUOTE=psychojake;42464495]Dammit. My family has been planning to go to Rocky Mountain National Park on the last week of October for a year now. I'll be pretty upset if this stuff doesn't get resolved by then.[/QUOTE] It wont... This horse shit is going to go on for at least 2-3 years

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42467621]I never said that they were? I just said it's dumb to leave to abandon your perfectly adequate life.[/QUOTE] Nothing about my life has been perfect or even adequate. I was homeless for 8 months thank you. Job market sucks, I have no healthcare, my parents are both unemployed, college prices are inflating at an insane rate, country's perpetually at war, etc. Not to mention our country is run by corporate shills that would rather see the country burn than allow anything resembling a step forward in healthcare. Why should I be loyal to a country that isn't loyal or even respectful to me?

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42467890]If you read the rest of my post you would understand why I think thats dumb. Every country has problems bud, there isn't a perfect utopia anywhere on this planet and there never will be. Instead of crying and abandoning your country, it's better to actually try and do something about it.[/QUOTE] That's absurd. You might as well tell refugees to go back and "stick it out!" America might catch up to the rest of the world eventually, but you need to reevaluate your own place in it if you honestly think it is the duty and responsibility of every citizen to sit and wait patiently for that day to come. National borders mean less and less as time goes on. Travelling to another country doesn't mean crowding into a wooden boat and sailing for three months anymore. Why would Joe Blow sit around trying to make America more like Sweden when he could just go to Sweden?

[QUOTE=atl101;42474041]They can't afford to run the park, but they can afford to pay "armed rangers" to keep everyone out? I guess they're already on the payroll...[/QUOTE] Please learn about these functions before you try to state these slanted opinions. It's been discussed several times in depth.

I mean really, why SHOULD we be loyal to a country that doesn't care if we're homeless, starving, sick, or poor? In America if you get sick and cannot work for a month or two while you recover that means you could lose insurance which means you may not recover at all, or lose your house or any number of other things. Then you end up homeless, sick, and poor. In America if your evicted or cannot afford housing you're left homeless. If you're homeless it makes is VERY VERY VERY DIFFICULT to get a job. They don't want to hire dirty street bums, especially when there's perfectly clean people in ample supply. If you end up hungry you are pretty much boned because it makes it much easier to get sick and if you get sick while homeless you're fucked because no one will treat you without you paying a hefty sum for the privilege of not being ill. In America it's incredibly difficult to get hired when you have some kind of chronic illness or disability, because companies are profit driven and they don't want to pay for medical insurance on someone who's guaranteed to use it. Same goes with healthcare, you cannot get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition. The ACA fixes that which is a small baby step forward but the corporate shills in red want nothing more than to see it go down in flames because you're supposed to pull on your bootstraps when you're sick and disabled. Right now it's bad enough that we're in what will likely be an extended shutdown and a good chance we could end up in default over this step forward. I'm sorry Monkay, but why would I want to live in a country that is bought and paid for by the corporations that sees citizens not as people but as an expendable workforce?

Suck it up Reshy, you were born there you owe the country eternal gratitude