Dreadlocked student assaulted for ‘cultural appropriation’ - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Qaus;50032110]there is a point at which this might result in the erasure or culture via dilution. it's important to keep things categorized and clearly expressed or things might get misrepresented or become global norms and as a result become culturally irrelevant. for example: the word "ok" or "okay" is pronounced and used the same exact way in every major language and has been for somewhere between 50-75 years. its origin is america but not many know this outside english speaking countries without looking it up. the word is now for all intents and purposes part of human culture rather than american culture.[/QUOTE] i see "okay" becoming a part of human culture as a good thing. sure, american culture is somewhat less unique but what we've gained is greater unity as a species which i feel is far more important than any individual culture. a step towards all of us recognizing each others as brothers and sisters is a step towards a better tomorrow. [editline]30th March 2016[/editline] i think it is totally awesome that i can say "okay" and many people from across the planet get what i mean. we may not be able to completely communicate but even those small bits go a long way for bonding.

We see dreadlocks as a primarily black thing not because they're rooted strictly in African culture, but because black people are the only ones that can pull off the look.

[QUOTE=Qaus;50032110]there is a point at which this might result in the erasure or culture via dilution. it's important to keep things categorized and clearly expressed or things might get misrepresented or become global norms and as a result become culturally irrelevant. for example: the word "ok" or "okay" is pronounced and used the same exact way in every major language and has been for somewhere between 50-75 years. its origin is america but not many know this outside english speaking countries without looking it up. the word is now for all intents and purposes part of human culture rather than american culture.[/QUOTE] The more that happens the better, in my opinion. "Purity" of cultures is not sacrosanct, all cultures change and mix over time as inevitably as the weather.

I've been called SJW and I'd say I'm fairly militant about allowing equal opportunities for minorities but IMO cultural (mis)appropriation is utter garbage. People should be able to wear what they want wearing a sombrero shouldn't upset mexicans, wearing a turban shouldn't upset sihks, having dreadlocks should not by any means upset Africans/Jamaicans/whoever else has them. IMO it works only to give racists/reactionaries ammo to use against progressives. They (racists/reactionaries/other dicks) can say "racism doesnt exist! people are just over sensitive, look at bla bla bla" (for an example of this see the post below mine.) If its enforcing negative stereotype (like a gay/trans person being portrayed as really camp, dramatic and obnoxious) then its a little more grey and should depend on intention; but when its something so harmless as this then its just retarded to get all aggressive about it, just an ignoramus taking their anger out on others for no reason. Its literally stopping cultures integrating and taking the best of each other.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50031139]I never understood the cultural appropriation thing. Sharing culture brings people together. Reinforcing stereotypes by telling people they can only abide by certain customs, dress, hair, behavior, etc. only exacerbates the problem and pushes people apart.[/QUOTE] That's regressive left for you. People who in the name of being progressive will tell you that based on race people can and cannot do certain things.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50032171]i see "okay" becoming a part of human culture as a good thing. sure, american culture is somewhat less unique but what we've gained is greater unity as a species which i feel is far more important than any individual culture. a step towards all of us recognizing each others as brothers and sisters is a step towards a better tomorrow. [editline]30th March 2016[/editline] i think it is totally awesome that i can say "okay" and many people from across the planet get what i mean. we may not be able to completely communicate but even those small bits go a long way for bonding.[/QUOTE] I was just using it as an example. It's obviously a good thing that okay became a worldwide colloquialism, but if things like St. Patrick's day were to become a worldwide holiday (instead of just English speaking or predominantly Catholic nations) it would lose a lot of context and importance and as a result harm Ireland's culture. [QUOTE=Im Crimson;50032194]The more that happens the better, in my opinion. "Purity" of cultures is not sacrosanct, all cultures change and mix over time as inevitably as the weather.[/QUOTE] The problem isn't so much that it's happening, just the speed at which it's happening. I don't mind cultures evolving and naturally mixing so long as it's not at the [I]speed[/I] of the weather, because then its inevitable death would happen at an imperceptibly slow pace; nobody wants to see their heritage lose importance. This should be a thing comparable to glaciers and tectonics, not weather.

"It's cultural appropriation!" they shout, wearing clothes styled from european and american history Beyond how racist treating race as a culture already is, it's quite telling how they forget about it when it's convenient. Might be that if they started practicing what they preach they might realize how ridiculous it sounds.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50032024]I never said there's some conspiracy. You're just reading into that. I'm saying that college does not teach individuality, it teaches conformity with whatever liberal idea is popular at the time. You think the guy in the OP is the only white dude with dreadlocks on his campus? How many people with the sides shaved out of their heads or longboards do you see on a college campus? What about girls with drab green jackets? You say any professor worthwhile will emphasize individual thought, but that's making a huge assumption that there are a lot of professors worth their paychecks. You're also making the assumptions that college professors care enough about their students' personal lives to give them any kind of life advice. No, college is just an educational institution like highschool. Schools are good for teaching skills and book knowledge and memorization, but not developing who you really are. Mark Twain said to never allow school to get in the way of your education. "I disagree with you so you must be stupid" Gee your degree is really paying for itself isn't it[/QUOTE] Man I don't know why you have a chip on your shoulder about university but you seriously need to divorce what you disagree with politically with what you [I]think[/I] is taught in them. Honestly if you've been anywhere remotely decent you wouldn't be saying half the shit you are. I mean, people with the sides of the head shaved riding longboards or girls wearing drab green jackets aren't automatically ideologically opposed to you. They might even have the same opinions as you. Except you're profiling them because they dress a certain way. What does that say about you? hell, I'd like to hear what you define as 'individuality' and how it applies to university because as far as I know they are dedicated to educating people and enabling them to think critically about things. I have the sneaking suspicion that 'individuality' to you means people shouldn't creates groups based on similar interests or ideas if you disagree with them. Not to mention the slight about professors at university. They're a thousand times more qualified than you to do anything academic yet your still standing there shouting nonsense about them being unqualified because [I]xyz[/I]. They're not there to give life advice either, they're there to research within their specialty and teach students in something similar to that. 'developing who you really are' my fucking arse. They're there to give you tools which you can use to develop yourself. There's no 'platonic' idea of a person that university professors are tasked with unlocking, there's only your sweet fucking self as it is. You as an individual choose how to use the knowledge you learn. Get as angry as you want about universities being liberal indoctrination factories as you'd like, because honestly at the end of the day it reflects that you are small-minded and unable to move past first impressions.

So just out of curiosity, if this is real, would she say the same thing to an African American woman with artificially straightened hair? It's a damn hair style, no one's assaulting your heritage.

There was a thing going on a few years back where a large group of black people on facebook started a 'campaign' (more like a movement) encouraging other black people to keep their natural curls. I haven't really heard much about it since.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50032024]I never said there's some conspiracy. You're just reading into that. I'm saying that college does not teach individuality, it teaches conformity with whatever liberal idea is popular at the time. You think the guy in the OP is the only white dude with dreadlocks on his campus? How many people with the sides shaved out of their heads or longboards do you see on a college campus? What about girls with drab green jackets? You say any professor worthwhile will emphasize individual thought, but that's making a huge assumption that there are a lot of professors worth their paychecks. You're also making the assumptions that college professors care enough about their students' personal lives to give them any kind of life advice. No, college is just an educational institution like highschool. Schools are good for teaching skills and book knowledge and memorization, but not developing who you really are. Mark Twain said to never allow school to get in the way of your education. "I disagree with you so you must be stupid" Gee your degree is really paying for itself isn't it[/QUOTE] Damn, my university must have been shit, I got all the way through my degree without learning about the hip new liberal idea!

[QUOTE=Qaus;50032110]there is a point at which this might result in the erasure or culture via dilution. it's important to keep things categorized and clearly expressed or things might get misrepresented or become global norms and as a result become culturally irrelevant. for example: the word "ok" or "okay" is pronounced and used the same exact way in every major language and has been for somewhere between 50-75 years. its origin is america but not many know this outside english speaking countries without looking it up. the word is now for all intents and purposes part of human culture rather than american culture.[/QUOTE] Why should we care about that? Do cultures have an intrinsic value? That's like white supremacists who fear that race mixing will cause the disappearance of whites. So what if that happens? Nothing of value is lost by having everyone be a bit darker skinned, the same can be said of cultures mixing.

[QUOTE=_Axel;50033331]Why should we care about that? Do cultures have an intrinsic value? That's like white supremacists who fear that race mixing will cause the disappearance of whites. So what if that happens? Nothing of value is lost by having everyone be a bit darker skinned, the same can be said of cultures mixing.[/QUOTE] People will always value culture as something naturally valuable. It's a core part of the human identity in most people. The real distinction is whether someone considers cultural diffusion as degrading their own culture or contributing to something different and all the better.

[QUOTE=_Axel;50033331]Why should we care about that? Do cultures have an intrinsic value?[/quote] Yes they do. [QUOTE=_Axel;50033331]That's like white supremacists who fear that race mixing will cause the disappearance of whites.[/quote] Yeah and it's not limited to Caucasian races. There's also loads of black people that will socially 'shun' (for a lack of a better term) their friends and family that date, marry, or have kids with a white/asian/hispanic/latino partner. Same results, half black and half white is neither entirely white nor entirely black. But race mixing isn't an issue, it's cultural loss. These aren't related. (?????) [QUOTE=_Axel;50033331]So what if that happens? Nothing of value is lost by having everyone be a bit darker skinned, the same can be said of cultures mixing.[/QUOTE] Cultures being mixed isn't the same as being spread thin or present where they don't make sense. Going back to my example of St. Patrick's day, what would your reaction be if you saw a bunch of Basotho people drinking green Guinness and decorating their huts with shamrocks, rainbows, and leprechauns? My guess is confusion, because in no way does the history, context, or subject matter of this holiday have any significant meaning or purpose to these people. It's not [I]offensive[/I] like the SJW/cultural appropriation crowd would claim it to be (or not lol, st patty's is a 'white man's' holiday), but it doesn't make any sense and should probably be avoided for both the sake of the Irish/Catholics and the people of Lesotho. [editline]30th March 2016[/editline] also following your logic, nothing of value would be lost by having everyone be a bit lighter skinned too. i'm not gonna say that's racist but it sure sounds like it. [editline]30th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Milkdairy;50033531]People will always value culture as something naturally valuable. It's a core part of the human identity in most people. The real distinction is whether someone considers cultural diffusion as degrading their own culture or contributing to something different and all the better.[/QUOTE] This is also an important thing to discuss but also difficult to articulate properly, thanks for bringing it up! Learning and experiencing cultures is exciting and interesting and everyone should get the opportunity to do it. Expressing cultures personally or socially can also be a good thing too, but can be a touchy and weirdly specific thing. Like Native American Halloween costumes are inherently offensive, you're putting on a race as a costume. But something like a Knight or a Ninja are up for debate, I would lean towards inoffensive because despite having cultural connotations, they're simply professions or job titles.

[QUOTE=Qaus;50032517]The problem isn't so much that it's happening, just the speed at which it's happening. I don't mind cultures evolving and naturally mixing so long as it's not at the [I]speed[/I] of the weather, because then its inevitable death would happen at an imperceptibly slow pace; nobody wants to see their heritage lose importance. This should be a thing comparable to glaciers and tectonics, not weather.[/QUOTE] in an age where many individual peoplr can get in contact with and share ideas instantaneously with anyone else across the world, cultures are going to mix and change at a pace never before seen. i don't think any amount of effort could really do much to slow it down.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;50033608]in an age where many individual peoplr can get in contact with and share ideas instantaneously with anyone else across the world, cultures are going to mix and change at a pace never before seen. i don't think any amount of effort could really do much to slow it down.[/QUOTE] and that's what i find depressing. [editline]30th March 2016[/editline] i [I]like[/I] the current cultures that exist in the world.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;50031116] There was also an intellectual shift; early-mid 20th century writers on political speech and freedom got replaced with mid-late 20th century french hacks called [I]The Postmodernists[/I]. These guys basically said that reality is a social construct. This means that there is no objective reality, no one true narrative or scope with which to view the world, only the narrative or scope you get to make up. Postmodernism, then, can be a synonym for "special-snowflake-ism". Suddenly being gay or black or a woman was no longer a biological fact, it was a [B]political identity[/B]. Identity politics is like when republicans hate democrats and democrats hate republicans, but instead of political parties, it's anybody not in your group. Since reality is socially constructed, anybody outside of your group or who disagrees with you is an affront to your own reality. Postmodernism can also, then, be a synonym for "narcissism", where you are the center of the universe and everything is an affront to your existence simply by existing. (a funny philosophical side note; postmodernism, above all, stands in opposition to the philosophy and binary dialectics of GWF Hegel, who wrote about exactly the scenario in which one persons existence seems to negate the Other's ego, leading to (violent) conflict)[/QUOTE] This is why we need Ayn Rand. Jk but for real.

[QUOTE=Qaus;50033610]and that's what i find depressing. [editline]30th March 2016[/editline] i [I]like[/I] the current cultures that exist in the world.[/QUOTE] they'll still exist, geologic closeness is still a big part of how cultures became unique in the forst place, there will just be a layer of global culture on top that will grow thicker as more people can connect to, interact with, and add to. but the individual cultures will remain.

[QUOTE=Qaus;50033563]Yes they do.[/QUOTE] Cultures do not have intrinsic value, they have sociological value as they are sociological constructs. They only exist so long as the social conditions allow them to exist, and they change as the sociological conditions change. If they held intrinsic value, they would be naturally occurring and distinct from social factors.

Christ. [img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/epVQa4r3ykY/hqdefault.jpg[/img] They even dress the same.

[QUOTE=Qaus;50033563]Yes they do.[/QUOTE] Okay. How do you quantify it? Do some cultures have more value than others? [QUOTE]Yeah and it's not limited to Caucasian races. There's also loads of black people that will socially 'shun' (for a lack of a better term) their friends and family that date, marry, or have kids with a white/asian/hispanic/latino partner. Same results, half black and half white is neither entirely white nor entirely black. But race mixing isn't an issue, it's cultural loss. These aren't related. (?????)[/QUOTE] These are related because you and other people's reaction to cultural loss is the same as people's reaction to the disappearance of a race through mixing. No individual rights are violated either way but you perceive it as a problem nonetheless. [QUOTE]Cultures being mixed isn't the same as being spread thin or present where they don't make sense. Going back to my example of St. Patrick's day, what would your reaction be if you saw a bunch of Basotho people drinking green Guinness and decorating their huts with shamrocks, rainbows, and leprechauns? My guess is confusion, because in no way does the history, context, or subject matter of this holiday have any significant meaning or purpose to these people. It's not [I]offensive[/I] like the SJW/cultural appropriation crowd would claim it to be (or not lol, st patty's is a 'white man's' holiday), but it doesn't make any sense and should probably be avoided for both the sake of the Irish/Catholics and the people of Lesotho.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't care at all. Why should it be avoided for their sake? How is the adoption of Irish customs hurtful to either the Irish or the Lesothians? Adoptions of foreign traditions in ways that don't make sense in context have already happened countless times. The Romans worshiped whatever divinity they pleased regardless of their origins, whether Egyptian, Greek, Saxon... There was a pretty big cult of Isis at some point. [QUOTE]also following your logic, nothing of value would be lost by having everyone be a bit lighter skinned too.[/QUOTE] Yes. [QUOTE]i'm not gonna say that's racist but it sure sounds like it.[/QUOTE] Uh. Why? If it happens as a result of peoples naturally mixing with others because they want to, who exactly are being discriminated against because of their race here? You seem to consider races and cultures like entities with a consciousness and rights of their own. They have no rights, only the individuals in them have human rights. It's entirely possible for a race or a culture to disappear without harming the people they belong to in any way. [QUOTE]This is also an important thing to discuss but also difficult to articulate properly, thanks for bringing it up! Learning and experiencing cultures is exciting and interesting and everyone should get the opportunity to do it. Expressing cultures personally or socially can also be a good thing too, but can be a touchy and weirdly specific thing. Like Native American Halloween costumes are inherently offensive, you're putting on a race as a costume. But something like a Knight or a Ninja are up for debate, [B]I would lean towards inoffensive because despite having cultural connotations, they're simply professions or job titles.[/B][/QUOTE] That could be said of Native American costumes as well. For instance you could say a costume with a headdress represents the profession of chieftain.

People wearing Native American costumes isn't offensive because it's cultural appropriation, it's offensive because it's largely inaccurate and stereotypical, in the same way that black face is considered offensive.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50033792]People wearing Native American costumes isn't offensive because it's cultural appropriation, it's offensive because it's largely inaccurate and stereotypical, in the same way that black face is considered offensive.[/QUOTE] Then you could say that knights and ninja costumes are offensive too because they are inaccurate and stereotypical? From what I understand, black face is offensive because it caricatures an entire race and mocks it. Being inaccurate isn't the main problem.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50033792]People wearing Native American costumes isn't offensive because it's cultural appropriation, it's offensive because it's largely inaccurate and stereotypical, in the same way that black face is considered offensive.[/QUOTE] Ignorance shouldn't be offensive though. It should depend on intention. Theres a game called rise of nations which has 2 of the north american native tribes, both have that stereo typical headress thing. Its not done with bad intention, if anything it celebrates their power and individuality. Those things should be embraced and used as a jumping point to learn/teach more about those cultures, if someone doesn't want to be misrepresented by something they should correct and educate "No my culture doesn't/didn't do that, but thanks for showing interest" Going nuts at someone for dressing up is only going to make them defensive and get everyone all riled up and polarised.

Since no one gives a fuck about religion apparently people now get angry about culture

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50033852]Ignorance shouldn't be offensive though. It should depend on intention. Theres a game called rise of nations which has 2 of the north american native tribes, both have that stereo typical headress thing. Its not done with bad intention, if anything it celebrates their power and individuality. Those things should be embraced and used as a jumping point to learn/teach more about those cultures, if someone doesn't want to be misrepresented by something they should correct and educate "No my culture doesn't/didn't do that, but thanks for showing interest" Going nuts at someone for dressing up is only going to make them defensive and get everyone all riled up and polarised.[/QUOTE] Yeah, once you start considering dressing up as something offensive, then why wouldn't you consider any fictional representation offensive as well? Does that mean we should completely censor any fictional representation of Native Americans in media? Even stuff like historical reconstitutions or fictional pieces that help empathize with Native American tribes like Little Big Man? That just doesn't make sense.

Beyoncé is culturally appropriating white hair.

I think Cultural Appropriation is a very complex, multi-faceted issue that many people over simplify and use to attack others. I have not once, ever seen someone who culturally appropriates in a malicious way. It's almost always out of ignorance and admiration. The reason people culturally appropriate is because they use other cultures traditions as they enjoy or admire them without being aware of their cultural significance. Take, for instance, Native American Headdresses. In my opinion, it's very disrespectful for certain people to wear them because they are reserved for Native American men and elders that have earned the right to wear them. I doubt anyone who culturally appropriates them is doing so in an effort to be disrespectful, and if they were told why doing so is disrespectful they would apologize and not do so in the future. I think that cultural appropriation should be met not with hatred and vitriol, but with teaching the offender why doing what they're doing is disrespectful to the original culture that it originates from.

[QUOTE=_Axel;50033816]Then you could say that knights and ninja costumes are offensive too because they are inaccurate and stereotypical? From what I understand, black face is offensive because it caricatures an entire race and mocks it. Being inaccurate isn't the main problem.[/QUOTE] People don't tend to perceive all asian people as ninjas and all europeans as knights in the same way people perceive native american's. It's all about context.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50034318]People don't tend to perceive all asian people as ninjas and all europeans as knights in the same way people perceive native american's. It's all about context.[/QUOTE] Then the problem lies more with people believing all Native Americans still live the way they did 200 years ago than with people dressing up as chieftains?