[QUOTE=TH89;19996579]Man who cares there's nothing on the moon except rocks and dust
It's a pretty shitty planet[/QUOTE]
There's trace amounts of helium-3 in the regolith, but that's not really useful until we get fusion figured out. Otherwise, there isn't a whole lot up there. There are much more interesting places in the solar system to go, the Moon is just cheap and convenient.
We are beyond broke, we in dept up to our ears. To think that we would even consider a moon trip is silly.
First things first, balance the books.
For fuck's sake, we'll never get to Pandora now!
Guys guys guys!
US isn't cancelling space research all together.
They are simply cancelling the outdated constellation program that deals with the moon. They are still aiming for mars - in fact, they said NASA budget would rise by 6 million over five years. And instead of old shuttles that fly like sausages there would be robots, lots of them.
Now stop panicking. US isn't the center of the world and if it quits doesn't mean Russia and China aren't going to space.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19981773]Good.
Space is stupid.[/QUOTE]
"The Final Frontier"
[QUOTE=Miyamoto;19988774]I apologize ahead of time for the long post...
I've spent the afternoon and evening thinking about the whole matter, taking into account all the different pros and cons, getting an idea of why one option is better or worse than another. And after all this time thinking I have to say in all honesty -
- I don't know how I feel about it.
Clearly there were major, major problems with the Constellation program. The entire thing was essentially doomed from day one. The program was built on the idea of an Apollo Redux, using the same basic spacecraft design with updated technology, and unfortunately it's 'goals' outlined in the 2004 Vision for Space Exploration amounted to 'let's go to the Moon... or whatever'. And then of course on top of all this is the fact that for all it's ambition, the program never received anywhere near the necessary funding or support to pull it off. Constellation was, as the Augustine Commission, Bolden, and a lot of people at NASA have been saying for a long time - unsustainable, and reworking it or scrapping it was the best option. That said, there's concern about the number of jobs and more importantly experts lost in such a move. Frankly I think the best option to minimize job loss and get more congressmen on board is to compromise and allow for a program like Direct to develop, which would allow for some of those shuttle jobs to be saved.
I'm extremely pleased to see NASA getting a budget increase (yes, let me clear this up for some of you who seem to be misinformed, NASA is not being gutted, it is in fact receiving an additional six billion dollars over the next five years, a modest increase but given the current economic situation I was actually surprised to find out NASA wasn't up for budget cuts) and am especially glad to see that the ISS will be funded through 2020 and perhaps beyond. This means that some of the unfinished and canceled modules could be revived and the station could continue to expand. It also means that rather than finish building it only to deorbit it a year or two later, we actually get to use the ISS as what it was intended to be - a lab.
I think the decision to have NASA working with the private sector instead of trying to compete with it is brilliant. SpaceX is launching it's rocket in a month, Bigelow Aerospace is nearly done with it's long awaited module prototype, and dozens of lesser known private space companies are gaining quick ground. Within a few years it's likely NASA (and other country's space agencies) will be contracting all their LEO work to AMERICAN space companies which will be good for the economy and especially good for space exploration and development. However I want to know more about how this cooperation between the public and private sector will work. Will NASA still be closely involved? And while I'm excited that turning LEO over to the private industry will free up NASA to focus on new developments, I want to know what their backup plans are in case the private industry doesn't come through. A lot of NASA's new budget is aimed at research and development, but it hasn't been made clear yet if that will involve the development of an HLV now or what that HLV would be (Direct? ULA?). Still it's nice to see that NASA will finally have the funding to focus on advancing propulsion and other technologies rather than just recycling older concepts.
The part I'm most uncertain about is the direction, the long term goals NASA and it's private partners will take. NASA, nor the President has made it clear what the long term mission is so I'm eagerly awaiting some information on that. While we may not be going to the Moon, there's a lot of options from near Earth objects like asteroids and comets, Phobos and Deimos, etc. The long term vision for the new proposal will be key, I think, to the plan being successful and to getting Congress on board.
While there's still a lot of emotion and hysteria, mostly from people who haven't sat down and stared over budget and project proposals for several hours (ugh, tired), I'm certain that the details will be made more clear over the next several weeks as Congress examines and negotiates the 2011 budget.[/QUOTE]
A brilliant and well-thought out post my good Sir. :golfclap:
fuck space anyway earth needs the money more and nasa was formed by jealousy so fuck it
[QUOTE=don818;19981768]Obama is getting worse and worse. I hope that fucker does something that forces us to impeach him.[/QUOTE]
Man. I sure hope Russia declares war on us and blows up the entire country, that'll show Obama!
[QUOTE=Tigster;19999138]Man. I sure hope Russia declares war on us and blows up the entire country, that'll show Obama![/QUOTE]
But then who will fight China? :ohdear:
[QUOTE=Lankist;19993529]yes we are in desperate need of iron right now we are just running so low on iron here its all over the news[/QUOTE]
that's not the point. the more widespread a resource is, the cheaper it is. the cheaper it is, the more money capital saves investing in production that consumes iron.
this is why us first world countries like oil. we can be self-sufficient and maintain our energy needs, along with production needs, but if we had more we could make these goods cheaper and more available, which in the end both the consumer and the business wins.
Obama is an idiot he spends trillions of dollars we don't have. throwing money at a problem does not make it go away
Do you guys have any idea what you're talking about?
A return to the moon would basically mean we wouldn't be expanding our view of space for a MUCH longer time.
Let's look on the bright side. The next time a big space endeavour is organised, hopefully the economy will be strong enough to support it. And with investment from the private sector there will be competition, which is a good thing.
[QUOTE=Conscript;20000086]that's not the point. the more widespread a resource is, the cheaper it is. the cheaper it is, the more money capital saves investing in production that consumes iron.
this is why us first world countries like oil. we can be self-sufficient and maintain our energy needs, along with production needs, but if we had more we could make these goods cheaper and more available, which in the end both the consumer and the business wins.[/QUOTE]
The cost of getting to the planet that has it and the cost of mining it will make the price either stay the same, or most likely go up.
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;20000509]The cost of getting to the planet that has it and the cost of mining it will make the price either stay the same, or most likely go up.[/QUOTE]
that's not the point. i know that cost of mining it would be too high to invest in right now, but lankist is forgetting how a market works.
[QUOTE=Tigster;19999138]Man. I sure hope Russia declares war on us and blows up the entire country, that'll show Obama![/QUOTE]
Or he could just shag a secretary.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19981993]I challenge any of you to name one provable and feasible advantage to visiting the moon again.[/QUOTE]
Beat Russia and China to the moon [b]again[/b]. :smug:.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;19981844]Leave space to Russia and China, the two most glorious nations eyes ever witnessed.
To Communism's triumph lead us on!![/QUOTE]
"COMMUNISM IS A LIE" - Liberty Prime
How dare Obama cancel something that costs a lot and does nothing new.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;19982813]However, with space, you might able to colonize other planets and bring food back.
Or have people move out of Earth and turn all these major cities into farmland.[/QUOTE]
Martian potatoes are good.
[QUOTE=mugofdoom;20000879]Martian potatoes are good.[/QUOTE]
You know potatoes aren't actually from Ireland?
I swear all Lankist ever does is shit on threads
[QUOTE=Robbobin;20000897]I swear all Lankist ever does is shit on threads[/QUOTE]
He is the cynic that balances the majority of Facepunch's blind optimism.
The money should go to reforming the economy.
The money should go towards paying off our debt.
[QUOTE=wildwill;20002044]The money should go towards paying off our debt.[/QUOTE]
Small change considering.
Even if you spent nothing on the US military for 3 years, you'd still have debt.
And the Military gets 40x what NASA gets in terms of budget.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;20000912]He is the cynic that balances the majority of Facepunch's blind optimism.[/QUOTE]
I am not a cynic. I am a romantic and an idealist.
[editline]08:28PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Robbobin;20000897]I swear all Lankist ever does is shit on threads[/QUOTE]
god forbid someone question the populist judgement
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;20002086]Small change considering.
Even if you spent nothing on the US military for 3 years, you'd still have debt.
And the Military gets 40x what NASA gets in terms of budget.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter if it's small change or not. Our country has a bad habit of not paying back its dept and every nickel counts. If we took this approach in all of our financial affairs we'd be back on track one day.
I think huge cuts in the military, and all other branches of the federal and state government are due as well. It would seem that would be obvious due to the fact that we are already buried in dept going at our current pace. I really have no idea why the government hasn't started massive cutbacks already. Not very many people are even wanting to talk about the real mess that we are in financially due to it being so grim.
This is just the way it is when I'm flat broke, why should my government be any different.
[QUOTE=wildwill;20002647]Doesn't matter if it's small change or not. Our country has a bad habit of not paying back its dept and every nickel counts. If we took this approach in all of our financial affairs we'd be back on track one day.
I think huge cuts in the military, and all other branches of the federal and state government are due as well. It would seem that would be obvious due to the fact that we are already buried in dept going at our current pace. I really have no idea why the government hasn't started massive cutbacks already. Not very many people are even wanting to talk about the real mess that we are in financially due to it being so grim.
This is just the way it is when I'm flat broke, why should my government be any different.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
However, you should look at the military before looking at NASA.
[QUOTE=rieda1589;19981774]Sigh....
NASA needs more money ASAP, Fuck the military. Typical politicians, always thinking short term... soon we're not going to have anything left on this planet and then we'll be screwed.[/QUOTE]
You're basically saying that we should be investing in space exploration to get resources from other planets? You have a well thought-out long term plan there.
Reeaaaallly long.
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