[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31768378]Gives them a deterrent.[/QUOTE]
lmao
not even the death penalty works as a deterrent
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31768378]Gives them a deterrent.
It's far more important to prevent the crime before it happens.[/QUOTE]
Statistics show that crime rates and recidivism rates don't go down the harsher a "deterrent" you have. That's precisely why places like Scandinavia have lower overall crime rates as well as recidivism rates, and states without the death penalty in the US have lower crime rates than those that do. It's not all a coincidence, man.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31768488]Statistics show that crime rates and recidivism rates don't go down the harsher a "deterrent" you have. That's precisely why places like Scandinavia have lower overall crime rates as well as recidivism rates, and states without the death penalty in the US have lower crime rates than those that do. It's not all a coincidence, man.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't talking about the death penalty.
I highly doubt giving them a free house is going to prevent crime either to be honest.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31768572]
I highly doubt giving them a free house is going to prevent crime either to be honest.[/QUOTE]
yes because that's all rehabilitation is
a free house
[QUOTE=Sanius;31768641]yes because that's all rehabilitation is
a free house[/QUOTE]
And maybe a talk from a psychiatrist
Thought this was quite interesting and relevant: [url]http://internationalbusiness.wikia.com/wiki/Norway's_Legal_System_Affects_the_Crime_Rate[/url]
[QUOTE=Hellduck;31768805]Thought this was quite interesting and relevant: [url]http://internationalbusiness.wikia.com/wiki/Norway's_Legal_System_Affects_the_Crime_Rate[/url][/QUOTE]
Oh look, the UK's mixture of rehab and punishment is better.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31767574]By the look of norways prisons, I'd rather go there than actually be on the outside.[/QUOTE]Look, Norway is the richest country on this planet, even the poorest members of the Norwegian society have a higher life standard than inmates in Norwegian prisons. Besides, their rehabilitation-oriented prison system is more successful than the punishment-oriented prison system that America has.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;31768991]Look, Norway is the richest country on this planet, even the poorest members of the Norwegian society have a higher life standard than inmates in Norwegian prisons. Besides, their rehabilitation-oriented prison system is more successful than the punishment-oriented prison system that America has.[/QUOTE]
Yes and because Norway is richer, there is less crime. It has nothing to do with their prison system.
If Norway's prison system was implemented in the UK no one would take the authorities seriously, because they'd be getting a better house than they already own.
Norway also has a much smaller population than the UK and US which would increase the standard of living.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31769029]Yes and because Norway is richer, there is less crime. It has nothing to do with their prison system.[/QUOTE]But you said "I'd rather go there than actually be on the outside.", showing that you have no perspective of the Norwegian society.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;31769076]But you said "I'd rather go there than actually be on the outside.", showing that you have no perspective of the Norwegian society.[/QUOTE]
Compared to UK standard housing I would.
The main reason the UK has a lower standard is because of it's higher population density.
That's a bit oversimplified don't you think? Germany has approximately the same population density and yet manages to have a significantly higher standard than the UK.
double innocence multiplier
young and disabled.
Is he in a death penalty state?
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;31769184]That's a bit oversimplified don't you think? Germany has approximately the same population density and yet manages to have a significantly higher standard than the UK.[/QUOTE]
It's also a larger land mass, allowing for a more spaced out population.
Plus it has a better economy than the UK
[QUOTE=kaine123;31758434]This guy deserves the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
He should have to sit in jail for the rest of his life, death penalty seems like the easy way out.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31769029]If Norway's prison system was implemented in the UK no one would take the authorities seriously, because they'd be getting a better house than they already own.
[/QUOTE]
It's far more related to cultural norms (and that includes criminal subcultures) than the deterrence factor, which has been proven to be negligible at best.
None of the solutions are easy, in any case.
[editline]17th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=gammagon^2;31769241]He should have to sit in jail for the rest of his life, death penalty seems like the easy way out.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention death penalty would probably end up costing more, and all the ethical arguments against state sanctioned killing.
I find it interesting that many people find this far more abhorrent than the killing of individuals with more worth (I'm talking purely in productive terms). Do people think it's because of the cultural more of protecting the weak, or something else entirely?
[QUOTE=gammagon^2;31769241]He should have to sit in jail for the rest of his life, death penalty seems like the easy way out.[/QUOTE]
No, no, no, he should have a nice luxury apartment and his own swimming pool.
What would you do without the rating system sanius? Would you actually put some effort in and refute people rather than taking the lazy way?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31769528]No, no, no, he should have a nice luxury apartment and his own swimming pool.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=gammagon^2;31769241]death penalty seems like the easy way out.[/QUOTE]
Well I explained myself.
It would not matter if I was a Green Beret or a Garbage Collector, I would probably cry if i saw this.
[QUOTE=gammagon^2;31769695]Well I explained myself.[/QUOTE]
How do you people always manage to miss sarcasm.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31769528]No, no, no, he should have a nice luxury apartment and his own swimming pool.[/QUOTE]
If you honestly believe that's all rehabilitation-oriented prisons consist of, you're even more naive than I thought.
[QUOTE=Sanius;31767580]that's a given, american prisons do nothing in the way of rehabilitation[/QUOTE]
Ever wonder why?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31771472]If you honestly believe that's all rehabilitation-oriented prisons consist of, you're even more naive than I thought.[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about rehab n general, im specifically attacking the notion that norways style of prison would work everywhere.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31772472]I'm not talking about rehab n general, im specifically attacking the notion that norways style of prison would work everywhere.[/QUOTE]
Norway-style rehab centers, or just Norway-style prisons, would mean more money spent in prisons, more than they do already in America. And for what? To have the millions and millions of more or less violent scumbags serving their time more comfortably?
Anyway, if you do some violent crime and you are up for, say 10 years in prison and you could appeal on mental illness or something, but you won't because it's a long shot, so.. Even without rehab, you will get out of prison as long as you are not stabbed to death while inside. And once you are out, regardless of how much rehabilitation you went through, getting sent right back in to prison lays in your hands.. again.
I don't know if that means anything to you.. I mean there is a whole other perspective to this, the inmates' perspective and not just talking about them as if they are some livestock.
That's... uhm...
Why...
I hope he gets a fair trial.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;31772600]Norway-style rehab centers, or just Norway-style prisons, would mean more money spent in prisons, more than they do already in America. And for what? To have the millions and millions of more or less violent scumbags serving their time more comfortably.[/QUOTE]
People like you and Carcarcargo continue to spout about how they live in luxury and that's all it's good for, when that's not what it's about. It's about putting criminals in an environment where when they get out, they become productive members of society again. If you can find me a country that employs this system and has higher recidivism rates (whether indicating crimes still being committed, or criminals just wanting to go back to jail, if you can prove it), I'll concede my point.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31773821]People like you and Carcarcargo continue to spout about how they live in luxury and that's all it's good for, when that's not what it's about. It's about putting criminals in an environment where when they get out, they become productive members of society again. If you can find me a country that employs this system and has higher recidivism rates (whether indicating crimes still being committed, or criminals just wanting to go back to jail, if you can prove it), I'll concede my point.[/QUOTE]
The only countries that have these places also have good economies and low populations.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;31773621]That's... uhm...
Why...
I hope he gets a fair trial.[/QUOTE]It's going to be fairly unfair. There is indisputable evidence.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31773821]People like you and Carcarcargo continue to spout about how they live in luxury and that's all it's good for, when that's not what it's about. It's about putting criminals in an environment where when they get out, they become productive members of society again. If you can find me a country that employs this system and has higher recidivism rates (whether indicating crimes still being committed, or criminals just wanting to go back to jail, if you can prove it), I'll concede my point.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't really complain about the conditions of a prison if I was convicted for a serious offense. I would just hope to get the fuck out and not ever get convicted again.
So, I hope you are not saying that a luxury prison is mandatory for overall reduced crime rates and shit.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;31774130]So, I hope you are not saying that a luxury prison is mandatory for overall reduced crime rates and shit.[/QUOTE]
What's needed for reduced crime rates is an environment that facilitates mental healing, psychology evaluation, and moral reflection. Whether you deem that "luxurious" is none of my concern.
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