[QUOTE=Lord of Awesome;31757894]White. Why does it matter? He cut his disabled son's head off and left it in front of his wife's house to leave a message. Ethnicity doesn't factor in here.[/QUOTE]
Probably asking due to the mexican cartel beheading shit
I like how you guys ask to see psychology degrees (which is bullshit anyway because asking to see a degree in neurobiology would be a much better idea given that it's much more of a science than psychology is), then use the argument, "you can't just claim he's a psychopath/sociopath because he displays 'x number' of tendencies!"
You realise that's exactly HOW someone with a degree in psychology would profile a criminal, right? A lot of the time criminals are caught when they're psychologically profiled and the cops know how to narrow their search down. [i]In general[/i] if someone displays many of the traits of a psychopath/sociopath then they probably are one.
[QUOTE=sltungle;31775553](which is bullshit anyway because asking to see a degree in neurobiology would be a much better idea given that it's much more of a science than psychology is)[/QUOTE]
hahahaha
ha
Let it be known, that my previous somewhat humorous post was meant to cut some of the serious tension in the thread...
Besides, this is so damn brutal, I'd rather laugh than cry. :/
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31770045]How do you people always manage to miss sarcasm.[/QUOTE]
No, I picked up the sarcasm. Just, why though?
[QUOTE=sltungle;31775553] A lot of the time criminals are caught when they're psychologically profiled and the cops know how to narrow their search down. [i]In general[/i] if someone displays many of the traits of a psychopath/sociopath then they probably are one.[/QUOTE]
Criminal profiling is junk' science', for the most part. Tbh that was a shocking post.
[quote]There is a belief that criminal profilers can predict a criminal's characteristics from crime scene evidence. In this article, the authors argue that this belief may be an illusion and explain how people may have been misled into believing that criminal profiling (CP) works despite no sound theoretical grounding and no strong empirical support for this possibility. Potentially responsible for this illusory belief is the information that people acquire about CP, which is heavily influenced by anecdotes, repetition of the message that profiling works, the expert profiler label, and a disproportionate emphasis on correct predictions. Also potentially responsible are aspects of information processing such as reasoning errors, creating meaning out of ambiguous information, imitating good ideas, and inferring fact from fiction. The authors conclude that CP should not be used as an investigative tool because it lacks scientific support.[/quote]
[quote]The difficulty with CP and its trait based characteristic being considered an empirically supported theory, are the documented flaws in any trait based model theory (TBM) which claims to have a scientific basis in its predicting ability (Mischel, 1996). Mischel et al. have shown that TBM are not a reliable source for predicting personality and behavioral predispositions, TBM typically have low correlations, are unable to predict behavior very well and all this leads to the conclusion that behavior is not consistent across situations; the paper shows that situational factors have just as much of an affinity to the prediction of personality and behavioral propensity of an unknown suspect. In any case the predictive ability of CP is lacking as published in a 2007 meta-​​analysis, which synthesizes results by combining the results of a number of independent studies, performed by Snook, Eastwood, Gendreau, Goggin and Cullen (2007). Possibly the most damaging conclusion in their analysis of the predictive accuracy between experienced profilers and college students/​psychologists, showed there is no statistical difference in predicting behavior between the two groups. If there is no difference in predicting ability between so called ‘professionals’ and un-​​professionals then it would seem that all probative value is lost. The meta-​​analysis did show that professional profilers were only slightly better at predicting overall offender characteristics but this is to be expected as this is the profilers supposed expertise, they should be much more familiar with the CP literature providing them with a wider range of options, ideas and hypotheses. If criminal profiling is greater than chance, there should be a statistically significant different between the two groups and there simply is not.
The scientific literature does not seem to largely support criminal profiling as an empirically verifiable technique. Mischel’s research shows CP relies on an outdated theory and this conclusion can be supported independently by its disappointing profiling accuracy expressed in the literature. CP desperately lacks a fundamental aspect which can be found in any valid science, a worthy falsifiable feature to its methodology. Criminal profiling has a well founded scholarly frame work but the profilers conclusions are opinions not facts and this seems to be supported in the scientific literature, these opinions must have reliability otherwise there is little probative value to such a technique. The profiling process at best maximizes the potential of existing evidence but should not be used as the first and/​or main approach to crime scene investigation, there is just not enough empirical support for this.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Contag;31784302]Criminal profiling is junk' science', for the most part. Tbh that was a shocking post.[/QUOTE]
In fact, there's a good chance that most of it is bullshit anyway. They did a test (sorry for lack of sources) that showed the profilers caught the suspect just as frequently as a group of people making educated guesses.
[QUOTE=gammagon^2;31776576]No, I picked up the sarcasm. Just, why though?[/QUOTE]
I wasn't attacking you
[QUOTE=Cone;31784457]In fact, there's a good chance that most of it is bullshit anyway. They did a test (sorry for lack of sources) that showed the profilers caught the suspect just as frequently as a group of people making educated guesses.[/QUOTE]
Well I'd say that assuming someone is pretty messed up because they decapitated someone (a handicapped child at that) is a pretty educated guess.
I mean... do you know how hard it is to decapitate someone? It ISN'T easy like you might be led to believe from movies. It isn't something that's swift and bloodless, it's not something that's easy to watch (let alone do).
For anyone with a strong enough belly, there's a link here to an actual person being decapitated (and is fucked the hell up):
[url]http://goregrish.com/chechclear-beheading-video/[/url]
I know people still disagree with me here, but I don't believe anyone with a perfectly normally structured brain would be capable of doing something this fucked up. They'd probably have freaked out and stopped mid-decapitation and would have went and threw up everywhere. It's hard to WATCH. Imagine being the person doing it.
I maintain the guy must be a fucking psychopath.
Of course he's a psycho fuck, you can use that as a name really, no need to go deeper than that.
Also about the "normally structured brain" that would mean a good birth, good parents, good youth life in a good home, you know the kind of glossy photo of a perfect family.
But some just don't get to live like that, and your life as an experience will add up to your brains/thoughts like no other, so it's no wonder some people turn out to be crazy psychos. And even then there are "good" psychos, like in the war, fighting on your side. different people.. kind of simple.
[QUOTE=sltungle;31784716]Well I'd say that assuming someone is pretty messed up because they decapitated someone (a handicapped child at that) is a pretty educated guess.
I mean... do you know how hard it is to decapitate someone? It ISN'T easy like you might be led to believe from movies. It isn't something that's swift and bloodless, it's not something that's easy to watch (let alone do).
For anyone with a strong enough belly, there's a link here to an actual person being decapitated (and is fucked the hell up):
[url]http://goregrish.com/chechclear-beheading-video/[/url]
I know people still disagree with me here, but I don't believe anyone with a perfectly normally structured brain would be capable of doing something this fucked up. They'd probably have freaked out and stopped mid-decapitation and would have went and threw up everywhere. It's hard to WATCH. Imagine being the person doing it.
I maintain the guy must be a fucking psychopath.[/QUOTE]
Of course he's fucked up, he just had his head chopped off!
Nah, srsly, don't generalize people by saying that we all think a decapitation is easy stuff. And you seem to think that anybody decapitating something will be sane enough to stop. If it's gone that far, then they're not going to stop, are they?
Oh, and I wanted to watch you video, but the WOT rating's pretty low. Don't want a virus now, do I?
[QUOTE=Cone;31785241]Of course he's fucked up, he just had his head chopped off!
Nah, srsly, don't generalize people by saying that we all think a decapitation is easy stuff. And you seem to think that anybody decapitating something will be sane enough to stop. If it's gone that far, then they're not going to stop, are they?
Oh, and I wanted to watch you video, but the WOT rating's pretty low. Don't want a virus now, do I?[/QUOTE]
I'm not generalising, I'm just pointing out that it IS difficult because things like TV and movies make it out to be incredibly easy. Like one swing of a sword. In reality it takes a lot of hacking basically to remove a head, and it ain't a pretty site.
And yes, that's my EXACT point. If someone is crazy enough to begin decapitating someone then they have something seriously wrong in their head. As in their brain doesn't function correctly. Normal people who are able to experience emotions and empathise with people, people who are able to consider the consequences of their actions do NOT do things like this. Sure, sane, normal people kill sometimes (revenge killings out of grief and anger for example), but not in the way that this guy killed his son. This is too fucked up to have been done by a normal person. Normal people will shoot one another. Run them over. Stab them maybe. But not decapitate them.
Chrome, Avast and AVG were all cool with the site. No warning bells went off for me.
[QUOTE=sltungle;31784716]I know people still disagree with me here, but I don't believe anyone with a perfectly normally structured brain would be capable of doing something this fucked up. They'd probably have freaked out and stopped mid-decapitation and would have went and threw up everywhere. It's hard to WATCH.[/QUOTE]
I disagree that someone with a 'normally structured brain' is incapable of decapitating another person, considering decapitation has a rather long tradition, and our view of decapitation being morally wrong isn't even consistent across western society.
I would imagine a great deal of people who would not be classified as psychopathic would have no issue with decapitating, say, Osama Bin Laden after the events of 9/11.
I also disagree that the concept of a 'normally structured brain' can exist in a universal sense, as per the prior examples of acceptable (by not insignificant sectors) decapitation.
[QUOTE=sltungle;31785369]I'm not generalising, I'm just pointing out that it IS difficult because things like TV and movies make it out to be incredibly easy. Like one swing of a sword. In reality it takes a lot of hacking basically to remove a head, and it ain't a pretty site.
And yes, that's my EXACT point. If someone is crazy enough to begin decapitating someone then they have something seriously wrong in their head. As in their brain doesn't function correctly. Normal people who are able to experience emotions and empathise with people, people who are able to consider the consequences of their actions do NOT do things like this. Sure, sane, normal people kill sometimes (revenge killings out of grief and anger for example), but not in the way that this guy killed his son. This is too fucked up to have been done by a normal person. Normal people will shoot one another. Run them over. Stab them maybe. But not decapitate them.
Chrome, Avast and AVG were all cool with the site. No warning bells went off for me.[/QUOTE]
Well I don't get your point then. I can't see any reason anybody would dispute that the man's crazy.
Oh, and about the site: you seem to have forgotten that it's a site filled with snuff films. Upon going to the link, I saw a comment reading: "You should have invited me, I torture a lot better.".
Doesn't sound particularly respectable, does it?
[QUOTE=sltungle;31785369]And yes, that's my EXACT point. If someone is crazy enough to begin decapitating someone then they have something seriously wrong in their head. As in their brain doesn't function correctly. Normal people who are able to experience emotions and empathise with people, people who are able to consider the consequences of their actions do NOT do things like this. Sure, sane, normal people kill sometimes (revenge killings out of grief and anger for example), but not in the way that this guy killed his son. This is too fucked up to have been done by a normal person. Normal people will shoot one another. Run them over. Stab them maybe. But not decapitate them.[/QUOTE]
You presume that a disabled seven year old constitutes a person, and once again, that idea is wholly dependent on cultural factors. An appropriate analogy is abortion.
If you take the entirely possible premise that the father did not view his son as a real person, then it's plausible for the father to be sane.
[QUOTE=Contag;31785473]You presume that a disabled seven year old constitutes a person, and once again, that idea is wholly dependent on cultural factors. An appropriate analogy is abortion.
If you take the entirely possible premise that the father did not view his son as a real person, then it's plausible for the father to be sane.[/QUOTE]
Man, I'd never thought about it like that.
This is getting a whole lot more philosophical than expected.
[QUOTE=Cone;31785517]Man, I'd never thought about it like that.
This is getting a whole lot more philosophical than expected.[/QUOTE]
Of course, if he is capable of such rational thought, then he is also fully aware that he resides in a state which recognizes the disabled as individuals (to some extent anyhow), and that you can't go around decapitating your children, because that's viewed as intensely morally abhorrent.
And so he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
[QUOTE=Contag;31785565]Of course, if he is capable of such rational thought, then he is also fully aware that he resides in a state which recognizes the disabled as individuals (to some extent anyhow), and that you can't go around decapitating your children, because that's viewed as intensely morally abhorrent.
And so he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.[/QUOTE]
Oh, THAT'S what this was about? I thought we were just over-complicating things.
I feel really, really stupid now. I need a box to hide in.
[QUOTE=Contag;31785402]I disagree that someone with a 'normally structured brain' is incapable of decapitating another person, considering decapitation has a rather long tradition, and our view of decapitation being morally wrong isn't even consistent across western society.
I would imagine a great deal of people who would not be classified as psychopathic would have no issue with decapitating, say, Osama Bin Laden after the events of 9/11.
I also disagree that the concept of a 'normally structured brain' can exist in a universal sense, as per the prior examples of acceptable (by not insignificant sectors) decapitation.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying people with normally structured brains can't do it, I mean of course they can, but the longer it takes and the messier it gets the harder it'd be to deal with. Plus a regular person probably wouldn't choose it as their preferred method of killing over something less fucked up like shooting someone. The fact that he clearly stated his reasoning for doing it was, "to make her [his wife] feel stupid," just proves that the guy has an incredibly loose grip on reality.
And there IS a generalised model of the 'normal brain'. Most peoples have relatively similar brains in terms of their physical make-up, size, density, the way in which they react to certain stimuli, etc - hence why terms like "severely diminished frontal lobe," can be used in the first place (because there's a very well documented size which has an incredibly small deviation in the majority of people).
For example the frontal lobe is known to control of a lot of emotion based functions in our brain and if you put someone who is some fucked up, deranged, serial killer under an MRI or something you'll usually find one of two things (of course there are exceptions, but in the majority of cases you find these traits): either their frontal lobe is severely diminished, or their frontal lobe doesn't function correctly (correctly being how the vast majority of the world's does).
Show a regular person a picture of two people hugging and a certain part of their brain will be active; it's in the frontal lobe if memory serves correctly. Same when you say a word like 'rape'; most people will feel disgust/sorrow/anger and that's reflected by those parts of their brain associated with those emotions lighting up. Some people, though? Nope. No reaction. When you say 'rape' or show them an image of two people hugging the part of their brain responsible for [i]language processing[/i] lights up instead. Those words and their associated context to a psychopath are... well just that: words. They have no feelings tied to them at all.
There [b]is[/b] an average, 'normal' brain, and some people (usually people that do terrible things like this or kill/rape multiple people) just don't have one.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31772472]I'm not talking about rehab n general, im specifically attacking the notion that norways style of prison would work everywhere.[/QUOTE]
Every single time rehab is brought up, you make a stupidly naive post consisting of how Norway prisoners get sunshine and bunnies with their happy meals and everyone's all nice n shit, when that isn't the case. And every single time you do this, you get proven wrong and explained what rehabilitation ACTUALLY consists of.
It's getting old and childish when you continue to make those shit posts anyway.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;31789723]Every single time rehab is brought up, you make a stupidly naive post consisting of how Norway prisoners get sunshine and bunnies with their happy meals and everyone's all nice n shit, when that isn't the case. And every single time you do this, you get proven wrong and explained what rehabilitation ACTUALLY consists of.
It's getting old and childish when you continue to make those shit posts anyway.[/QUOTE]
But they have a bed and reasonable food, clearly it's luxury!
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31790772]But they have a bed and reasonable food, clearly it's luxury![/QUOTE]
And a flat screen TV
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31790936]And a flat screen TV[/QUOTE]
you realise it's not the early '90s anymore, right? flat screen TVs are cheap
[QUOTE=Sanius;31790958]you realise it's not the early '90s anymore, right? flat screen TVs are cheap[/QUOTE]
Better than what some people have.
we're talking about norway here, a country with a relatively small population with citizens that are well off
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31791041]Better than what some people have.[/QUOTE]
It's Norway, a pretty wealthy country. When the standards of living for most citizens are higher, the standards for prisons will be higher too.
And a flat screen TV for what, watching public access shows and nature documentaries? Is that really what you're shitting your pants over?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31791215]It's Norway, a pretty wealthy country. When the standards of living for most citizens are higher, the standards for prisons will be higher too.
And a flat screen TV for what, watching public access shows and nature documentaries? Is that really what you're shitting your pants over?[/QUOTE]
Point taken.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31791344]Point taken.[/QUOTE]
I'm glad you understand.
The main point I'm making here is that it seems like your dislike of this system stems from some perception that criminals should not receive amenities in prison, and this is where a disagreement occurs. I think that criminals, when thrown in prison, need to be given an opportunity to reform, whether that be through psychological help or time to reflect on what they've done, neither is going to be accomplished in a punishment-oriented system.
I would show statistics for places that use the rehabilitation system, but it seems like every time I do, you dismiss it based on the country it's from, and at some point I run out of countries. The results don't lie, you're not going to have repeat offenders anywhere near as often as in the US/UK/EU/etc. and it even goes by your logic.
If the prisons are so nice, comfortable, and better than most people have why wouldn't they commit crime again to go back? No matter what the scenario, you are pretty much guaranteed better results.
However, I know you probably won't agree with me even now. Just look at any homicide thread, you see a mass of "I hope he gets raped" or "put him in with a big black guy" comments, and it's completely irrational. I only hope you take what I've said into consideration, and even if it doesn't change your mind, at least think about the alternative side to punishment.
Actually, American prisons wouldn't probably even be so punishment-oriented, harsh and tough n shit if they didn't have any reason for it. I mean the tight security measures and discipline aren't there for nothing. So the prisoners, they are half of the whole equation. And in America, there are a whole lot of prisoners so it's no wonder.
In other words, the prison guards would lay off a little if the prisoners did too. Kindness goes a long way..
This is one of the most sickening, sad and utterly depressing things I've seen in awhile.
In addition to that, the previous six pages of bitching were pretty awful themselves. Given the subject matter, I'm surprised that some of you (and if you have the urge to ask if it's you, chances are it is) can go on like you have been doing. I sincerely hope that none of you ever sire children, have anything to do with children and their upbringing or run for office of any kind whatsoever. I'm not trying to be dramatic, I'm not trying to be funny, I am entirely serious.
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