• "Hatred" is a genocide simulator developed by Neo-Nazis
    271 replies, posted
Unless they have enemies fight back, or an awesome soundtrack, this is about as good as spawning a bunch of npcs in gmod.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;46260150]You mean the game doesn't give you fucking points for killing everyone on the level flawlessly, doesn't it reward you with storyline progression?[/QUOTE] Ironically Hotline Maimi's main character's compulsion to kill (and he's pretty clearly depicted as not playing with a full deck) is directly shown to lead to him never learning what's really going on.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;46260150]You mean the game doesn't give you fucking points for killing everyone on the level flawlessly, doesn't it reward you with storyline progression?[/QUOTE] missing all of the context of the game [QUOTE=H4ngman;46256313]The thing is, in Postal the rampage and misanthropy setting actually works because every npc in the game is trying really hard to provoke you into killing them. The message is 'you should really kill these people because, well, just LOOK at them, they even hate you back'. They are all annoying parodies that actually TRY to push you over the edge with their comically hate-able behavior. It's a fun take on mass murder. As fun as you can possibly make it. This game just supplies you with regular people and assumes you already did the math and agree with its message of 'durr, humanity bad because ppl=shit weak vermind maggots'. It assumes you already have found your own personal motivation to kill perfectly normal random strangers, that you have already built up some sort of frustration that justifies this silly logic of "I think everyone should be killed because x". It doesn't make sense and seems disturbing when you actually have a mature, emotionally balanced mind. But the trailer just goes 'Everything is shit and should be killed, you with me? You probably know why already, right?" That's what disturbs me about this. I have no reason to believe that random people on the street deserve to be killed for any reason imaginable. Then again, the opposite trope is VERY popular in games. When you get an arsenal of gruesome ways to graphically kill an army of people and the narrative assures you that you're dealing with VERY EVIL PEOPLE that have VERY EVIL INTENTIONS that they need to voice in every spoken line of dialogue they have as NPCs to the point where it comes off as a REALLY forced way to supply a justification to commit clean conscience killings and let off some steam without having to feel disturbed or reflect critically about your own behavior. This seems like a kind of reversal of that trope. But while this trope bothers me for being a lazy, unrealistic and shallow way to justify excessive violence and avoid any ACTUAL moral debate, HATRED just goes one step deeper into lazy-land and doesn't even bother to do that. If the intention of this game (which I find hard to believe) was to supply a look at what a 'badly justified violence' game looks like with the pretense stripped off for the sake of discussion I could see where they were coming from but it wouldn't justify throwing this bad media nuke out there. I doubt it will spakt the RIGHT discussions often enough, if that was even intended which I doubt. Nevertheless, I don't think it should be banned or anything. To me, it serves as a cynical reminder of what some games would look like with the flimsy, badly written narrative stripped away. But not a fun think I would want to play to pass time[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;46255547]That's pretty disturbing. I mean honestly even in a game that's very similar to this, Hotline Miami we see not a glorified mass killing spree, but an assault on people who are armed, dangerous, hostile to you, and once the blood and gore settles you're left with a creepy, unsettling atmosphere that makes you question whether you're the good guy or the bad guy. Whereas with this it's just 'kill innocent people for no reason'. It just makes me uncomfortable. I mean sure, go ahead and make it, the act of creation should never be denied, but you should think about the consequences of the art you make, and I can't help but feel this isn't going to be doing anything constructive for anyone.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=milkandcooki;46257743]it's because hotline miami starts out really vague and makes the player wonder [I]why[/I] he's killing. it has a story. it has characters. it has a moral dilemma. this game is just "kill guys because... WAKE ME UP!!! WAKE ME UP INSIDE!"[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;46256121]in hotline miami you're being paid to do a job. you're fighting armed men in some sort of criminal gang. the odds are even and you're fighting to come out on top after each pumping murder fest, the music stops and you're forced to retrace your steps through the gore in silence by the time you're murdering policemen for your bloody revenge quest, the character has completely fallen. i mean the first mission in the game has you murder a dude who doesn't fight back for his briefcase and then throw up in an alleyway. it's obviously not a glorification of violence the entire game is literally themed around violence in games and why we commit to acts we're asked to do by video games gta punishes you for breaking the rules. the police come, the swat come, the army come. it's very hard to survive and escape from 6 stars. there's also no reward for senseless killing in gta. yeh you can pick up like $100 off the ground but you'd get more than that for being a fireman for 5 minutes. the game allows for destruction and murder but it isn't centered around it at all[/QUOTE] Hotline miami tries to make a point against killing innocent people. this just kind of seems to be all about killing innocent people just because. Sure, you play a mass murdering psychopath, but you're killing very different people who are already violent criminals, instead of innocent unarmed people, and being rewarded for killing innocent victims. it's demonizing criminals and thugs and a russian mafia VS demonizing random people on the street. [QUOTE=Grindigo;46260137]You could kill innocents in Hitman games too, it got quite a bit of heat too especially when big crowds have been introduced in Blood Money and you could take a machine gun and plow through the crowds if you wanted.[/QUOTE] the also punishes you for doing that though does it not? even GTA punishes you for killing civilians.
[QUOTE=J!NX;46260177]missing all of the context of the game Hotline miami tries to make a point against killing innocent people. this just kind of seems to be all about killing innocent people just because. Sure, you play a mass murdering psychopath, but you're killing very different people who are already violent criminals, instead of innocent unarmed people, and being rewarded for killing innocent victims. it's demonizing criminals and thugs and a russian mafia VS demonizing random people on the street. the also punishes you for doing that though does it not? even GTA punishes you for killing civilians.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=J!NX;46260177]missing all of the context of the game[/QUOTE] Because that was more of a question forgot to put "?" Holy crap that's like watching Dexter tvshow and trying to justify why he kills other murderers while other murderers killed innocents.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;46260198]Because that was more of a question forgot to put "?" Holy crap that's like watching Dexter tvshow and trying to justify why he kills other murderers while other murderers killed innocents.[/QUOTE] I don't watch dexter, and I'm not justifying anything, I'm just pointing out that the context of the objective is a lot, lot more reasonable to be killing criminals rather than random pedestrians as the primary mission. and that wasn't a question. [editline]17th October 2014[/editline] if these games glorify anything then it sure as shit is better to glorify vigilantism than to glorify outright mass murder
[QUOTE=Grindigo;46260113]I still find it funny how some people justified Postal 2 on last page because the game gave you choice not to kill or it was humorous, then what the point of playing this game, walking around? Listening to boring cheap humour? The entire point of the game is doing silly violent shit, pissing on corpses, burning stuff, making people around puke, chopping their limbs off, sticking guns into cat anuses there is a ton of obscene stuff, but yet people justify it because it's in the name of humour, a really poor one it's a matter fact.[/QUOTE] Well... but still, Postal 2 gave itself a reason to get away with the violence and I must say it worked as a satire and over the top cartoony action game. It's not about having a choise or having no choise at all, it has a humorous and social critical context around it that justified violence. You have arabs blowing themselfes up, every 3rd citizen carries a gun, people use you as sex slave, etc It was a more chaotic representation of the world we life in with wackier rules like "Steal something from my store and I'll turn into a miniboss" The shown violence of "Hatred" is absolutely no problem at all, you had the possibility of kill civilians in horrible ways in "Scarface The Game", "Godfather" and "Godfather II" the problem with "Hatred" is the buildup. It has a context that tries to justify the killings and the context is an angry guy in a trenchcoat talking about mass murder... you force the player into this role and that's what creates the outrage. I think if they would build it up like a survial game with a character editor(or a mute character) for instance and letting you killing random people without the whole "characterisation" of the main character as we see in the trailer, it would have gotten away with it because then you can say that it's nothing more that brainless entertainment. I have no problem killing random people, hell, from time to time I plan and execute mass shootings in videogames like the GTA series, Saints Row or even Garrys Mod or do even worse in Postal 2. But I do not feel comfortable playing with this main character in "Hatred" because he glorifies the ideology of mass murder. The presentation is dull and words like "Genocide Crusade" coming out of the characters mouth are really tryhard and wasted potential. They should have just dopped the whole idea of a main char and have a mute character as a projection space for yourself and not force an ideology upon you because that raises the whole game into a context that TRIES justifies it. Even I think that this is not okay while I do think that the game itself looks very polished, done with a lot of craftsmansship and of course FUN.
[QUOTE=OutLawed Blade;46260147]The context is completely different, comparing this crap to Hotline Miami because they are both top down shooters is dumb. The entire problem is context.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=J!NX;46260144]Except Hotline Miami actually doesn't glorify murder in the same way as this it shows killing innocents as horrible (You kill a man in an alleyway, and the main character pukes in horror) and you kill armed thugs, not innocent people. missing the point really.[/QUOTE] The context is exactly the same, you're in a videogame where the goal is to kill people.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;46260198]Because that was more of a question forgot to put "?" Holy crap that's like watching Dexter tvshow and trying to justify why he kills other murderers while other murderers killed innocents.[/QUOTE] I mean if you look at the de facto example of condemning violent player agency in video games, the only way to progress in spec ops: the line is to kill a lot of people, some of them innocent. but that doesn't mean that the thematic message of the game aligns with the trivialization of killing folks, even though mechanically you're constantly rewarded with progression. the thematic message of both spec ops: the line and hotline miami largely condemns the trivialization of murder in videogames even though they've both got a lotta murder in em and are essentially Videogames Where Your Goal Is To Kill People
[QUOTE=AlexDeviant;46260223]The context is exactly the same, you're in a videogame where the goal is to kill people.[/QUOTE] because Russian mafia thugs are exactly the same thing as random innocent people on the street right? You may as well say that the context of Morrowind is the same as well then, and Shadow of Mordor, and doom. You kill people, so it's exactly the same. you COMPLETELY missed the entire point though. The point is WHO you are killing and WHY. [QUOTE=DMGaina;46260219]long.[/QUOTE] that and postal 2 essentially tries to make FUN of everything that hatred is it tries to make fun of raging murderers and make fun of their insane, warped mind by making everything so clearly based on a satire and so clearly drawn out as false.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;46260198]Because that was more of a question forgot to put "?" Holy crap that's like watching Dexter tvshow and trying to justify why he kills other murderers while other murderers killed innocents.[/QUOTE] You're still missing or ignoring what is being said about context here. Hotline Miami tells a story as does GTAIV, and they're about characters who do bad things. It doesn't look like this game is anything other than creepy juvenile wish fulfillment. I don't think the postal games are a whole lot better (and I've never seen or played 1 so I can't speak for it) but they're at least [I]clearly[/I] not serious.
Overall I think there are way too many games about killing, it's like you start understand why people liked Portal and Portal 2 a lot.
[QUOTE=Grindigo;46260251]Overall I think there are way too many games about killing, it's like you start understand why people liked Portal and Portal 2 a lot.[/QUOTE] I do as well, which is why I try and get so many games against it + try and play the pacifist, even in postal 2. It's a challenge to not kill in a game where killing is so easy and that makes it fun. Of course, the more violent the better, which is why I also LOVE hotline miami. In the end though it's all about taste and how the game does it.
[QUOTE=J!NX;46260230]because Russian mafia thugs are exactly the same thing as random innocent people on the street right? You may as well say that the context of Morrowind is the same as well then, and Shadow of Mordor, and doom. You kill people, so it's exactly the same. you COMPLETELY missed the entire point though. The point is WHO you are killing and WHY. that and postal 2 essentially tries to make FUN of everything that hatred is it tries to make fun of raging murderers and make fun of their insane, warped mind by making everything so clearly based on a satire and so clearly drawn out as false.[/QUOTE] No you missed the point bro, VIDEO GAMES, there get it when I capslock?
[QUOTE=AlexDeviant;46260294]No you missed the point bro, VIDEO GAMES, there get it when I capslock?[/QUOTE] So what you're saying is, the context of any game with killing involved is the same as any other game with killing involved that makes no sense at all. That's making everything totally black and white. "You're killing this person and therefore it's the same as killing anyone else" there is a very obvious difference between killing criminals in gta/hotline miami or bandits in morrowind, and killing random pedestrians as the primary goal in hatred. hell, you may even as well say the context of dark souls and alien isolation is the same. You're killing people right? must be the same thing! you're ignoring the entire tone games set out to make, which is just plain silly. Some games, you have to kill to survive, others, you kill because they are criminals, and in others, you kill because they have been driven insane and the choice is forced onto you, or you are given the choice. In Hatred, you kill because you have been driven insane, and you commit mass murder of innocents. It's clearly not the same.
[QUOTE=J!NX;46260316]So what you're saying is, the context of any game with killing involved is the same as any other game with killing involved that makes no sense at all. That's making everything totally black and white. "You're killing this person and therefore it's the same as killing anyone else" there is a very obvious difference between killing criminals in gta/hotline miami or bandits in morrowind, and killing random pedestrians as the primary goal in hatred. [B]hell, you may even as well say the context of dark souls and alien isolation is the same. You're killing people right? must be the same thing![/B] you're ignoring the entire tone games set out to make, which is just plain silly.[/QUOTE] Exactly, we're talking about pixels here.
[QUOTE=AlexDeviant;46260330]Exactly, we're talking about pixels here.[/QUOTE] I was being sarcastic and rhetorical. what the fuck are you going on about here? you really don't get it it seems. I was pointing out that your argument may as well compare 2 things that have literally no similarities when it comes to the morals of killing people. The context still exists, regardless of if they are pixels or not. there is still a difference between killing criminals in mass or killing people because they are desperate and have lost any moral fiber, and killing people because you feel like it
[QUOTE=Episode;46259411]Where's the racist part in the game?[/QUOTE] It's fucknovideogames, a blog with a history for sensationalism and not being honest to its readers. Like for fucks sake they claimed WD was a white supremacist game based on a gameplay video from /POL/ OF ALL PLACES
I don't really see why any of you are trying to argue about the morality in this game. I think both sides are really being completely silly about this. It is a video-game, you're not "killing" anything or anyone and not for any "good reason or context". Its a game and its completely fictional. Why are any of you trying to prove its bad to kill out of context, or good to kill in context, or whatever other variation of? Its fictional. What you should be concerned about is the creator, their intentions, and if there is any clear mental instability or disturbed thought process that has entered the game. If so, then the game is a product/symptom of a very real problem affecting very real people.
[QUOTE=dark soul;46260070]Yeah smart move by them, their going to be rich off all this publicity.[/QUOTE] Well, they do have a video game product to sell, too..
too bad they decided to go the edgy i hate everyone route and not have any psychotic and disturbing imagery. postal 1 works because you can feel the insanity in the character in the music and loading screens, as well as somewhat in the rick hunter quotes which are a voice in his head.
This game will probably end up being sold cheaply, they can possibly even manage distribution for copies themselves or set up a web shop, obviously this isn't the type of game for a large demographic but for small specific one, hence why it fits into indie category too.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;46260633]too bad they decided to go the edgy i hate everyone route and not have any psychotic and disturbing imagery. postal 1 works because you can feel the insanity in the character in the music and loading screens, as well as somewhat in the rick hunter quotes which are a voice in his head.[/QUOTE] the edgelord route is literally the most boring and dumbest way you could take with a controversial game like this
[QUOTE=AlexDeviant;46260330]Exactly, we're talking about pixels here.[/QUOTE] It's just paint on a wall. I don't see what the big deal is.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;46259989]so much of facepunch would never buy a phil fish game even if it was the best game in the world just because it's phil fish, but they will defend the rights of a game about murdering people made by literal nazis #facepunchproblems[/QUOTE] I'd defend both this game and Phil Fish's game under the basis of free speech. I dislike both Phil Fish and Neo Nazis, but I believe both should have the right to make a video game, or a book, or a movie, or any piece of art regardless of message. (Doesn't mean it's going to be good art.) "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Can I fuck hookers to regain health then kill them with a huge dildo to get my money back?
Holy fucking hell, this source. They claim Żołnierze Wyklęci are connected to Freikorps. Now, let's head to the best source available, Wikipedia, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursed_soldiers"]let's see[/URL] Nothing about Freikorps, didn't exist before mid-war, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freikorps"]let's see Freikorps then[/URL] Existed up till 1934. Great job. Though PLO seems kind of islamophobic, won't deny that, though I know worse existing and working organisations. On the topic of the game - it will probably be shit, they aimed to use controversy and it seems to have worked wonders. The thing that bothers me - nobody has seen anything else than this trailer and yet somehow everybody knows what the game is about and how it plays. I mean, after Watch Dogs I assumed most peopled ceased to believe trailers. [editline]17th October 2014[/editline] Now I thought about it and I think I just got trolled by the source. Fuck me.
The game looks fucking sick definitely getting it
I'm not too sure how I feel about this one. The trailer actually caused me to feel slightly disturbed/disgusted which is quite the feat because I didn't know I was able to feel that way about a game before. I'm going to pass on it; but I can't wait for the media to jump on it, giving the game more free publicity.
[QUOTE=Lance99;46260984]Holy fucking hell, this source. They claim Żołnierze Wyklęci are connected to Freikorps. Now, let's head to the best source available, Wikipedia, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursed_soldiers"]let's see[/URL] Nothing about Freikorps, didn't exist before mid-war, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freikorps"]let's see Freikorps then[/URL] Existed up till 1934. Great job.[/QUOTE] If you checked the polish vesion of this page you would have found out nothing at all because you probably don't speak polish anyway, here is says that several divisions the cursed soldiers committed a number of quasi-genocidal crimes, such as killing Belorussian(about 70 people total) and Ukrainian (about 200 people total) civilians. Granted, in general cursed soldiers had good intentions (there are several memorials dedicated to them in poland) but I can understand why they are controversial.
Massive controversy aside. The shooting mechanics and bullet physics look really solid, when you or people shoot guns it tears up the environment and destroys it. Anyway we really don't know what the message is? What if its horrifying mass killings or shoot outs? Didn't you feel horrified when you watched that? Maybe that's the reaction they're provoking. But then again there dev team has some pretty conservative people to put it lightly. Atleast if I were to make a game like this thats how I would go about it. To make you see through the eyes of a killer and see how he becomes that man and maybe make you sympathseize with him. If its just edgey dark bullshit then its dumb and a wasted opportunity.
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