[QUOTE=Gishank;35053164]Where's the evidence that they rigged their elections? Putin has just as many supporters as protestors which would confirm what the elections said. Anyway, as for this - to be honest, what's the problem? The US is known to be one of the biggest human rights violators in the world.[/QUOTE]Only on the planet Loony does Chechnya have a voter turnout of 99% that votes almost entirely for Putin.
Yes, the West has done some really nasty shit in the past, but for fuck's sake that doesn't mean it's right to side with [I]absolutely anyone[/I] that goes against the West. Just because Assad isn't fond of the West, it doesn't mean he isn't a murderous dictator, nor does it mean any intervention to stop him is only to get their oil. Protip: despite Libya and Iraq's oil infrastructure returning to pre-war levels, the West has seen fuck all increase in oil imports from there or drops in oil prices. The vast majority of the West's oil consumption comes from politically stabler countries like Saudi Arabia or from it's own borders.
[editline]8th March 2012[/editline]
And I swear to god i'm going to beat the next person to death who says RT isn't at all a severely biased news source on par with the likes of Fox News. Relying on a single news source in general is a bad idea, easier to get a clearer picture comparing multiple sources, inconsistencies between them, known biases for certain sources, past histories of particular types of falsifications or inaccuracies etc.
ITT all amuricans are politicians...
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Starpluck))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Marbalo;35053908]Or they want to further prevent any Western intervention and influence in the Middle East but I guess that's a completely impossible scenario because the West are glorious, just, freedom fighters with no hidden motives and the East are all arms-trading, orphan raping commies.[/QUOTE]
Ok, lets let Syria continue to slaughter civilians using tanks, jets, rocket and artillery attacks, and mortars. Honestly, how can you say it's OK for Russia and China to veto any intervention into Syria? If the US wants oil who gives a shit, at least they're stopping genocide and not selling weapons to a fucking monster.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;35054990]Ok, lets let Syria continue to slaughter civilians using tanks, jets, rocket and artillery attacks, and mortars. Honestly, how can you say it's OK for Russia and China to veto any intervention into Syria? If the US wants oil who gives a shit, at least they're stopping genocide and not selling weapons to a fucking monster.[/QUOTE]
You are right on this, even if the only reason we went to Iraq was oil, we still removed a dictator hell bent on exterminating the Kurds from power.
Russia has a terrible human rights record, two wars in Chechnya that drew international commendation (1994 and 1999). In 2003, Grozny, the capital city of Chechnya was called the most destroyed city in the world by the United Nations (this is during the US's Iraq war). In Russia, if a protest does not have the proper papers, the police arrest organizers and shut down the protest (See the recent protests). In the US, many cities let Occupy protestors stay for weeks if not months without any kind of documents. Both the US and Russia have free press, but more than a few journalists have been beaten or killed in Russia for the stories they broke ([url]http://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/[/url]). Unlike the US, Russia does not allow gay marriage at all, nor do they grant LGBT people any legal protection against discrimination or harassment (I know only some US states allow gay marriage, but all LGBT people are legally protected.) Don't get me wrong, the US is not the perfect role model for respecting human rights but this idea that Russia is any better is far off.
RT is crap by the way. As polarized, sensationalized, and short sighted like Fox News in the US. Not to mention RT is often just plain inaccurate like Fox is too.
[QUOTE=Aerkhan;35053265]Russia.
Telling the USA to respect human rights.
Wow, USA, you have sunk.
Very, very deep.[/QUOTE]
Hell,even Castro called the GOP race a competition of ignorance and bigotry.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;35054016]
Source.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16797818[/url]
I got more if you want it.
[QUOTE=znk666;35055104]Hell,even Castro called the GOP race a competition of ignorance and bigotry.[/QUOTE]
Luckily for Cuba, they don't have any elections with which there to be competitions of ignorance and bigotry.
[QUOTE=Hidole555;35053524]Like I said, when it doesn't come to politics.
Besides, in a way, we did [B]both at the same time.[/B]
[IMG]http://www.soldierstudies.org/images/webquest/civil%20war%20soldiers.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
There is distinct difference between a Civil War and acts of mass political killing and engineered starvation. The Civil War had some exterminatory aspects of a total war, such as Sherman's march to the sea, but it barely compares to what Stalin did.
On the subject of Bradley Manning, the Russians are a bit late on this one, aren't they? Last April we moved Manning to a medium security custody with fairly normal conditions for a pre-trial prisoner. Besides, and while this is subjective, I think exceptionally poor treatment of a capital offender is a bit below the scale of human rights abuses from cheating your entire people out of fair elections.
Manning would've probably been shot on the spot in Syria, if not Russia considering how they treat mere dissenting journalists.
Worth mentioning that Bradley Maning has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Price... twice.
It's quite a statement when a country far worse off tells another country to work on human rights.
This is good though, the guy deserves the support of a nation.
Everyone says the US wants oil from the Middle East.
Nobody says anything about the weapons contractors and PMCs that get paid the big bucks by the US government to ship their own soldiers overseas and develop a better way to bomb brown people.
Don't trust those communist russians...
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35053496]Yep when America was segregating blacks from whites, the Soviet Union was killing millions of its own people. If only America could have followed their shining example.[/QUOTE]
And when Americans were offering money for slaughtering natives and giving their Scalps for cash and conducting military operations to wipe out entire native villages and blowing each other up, the Russians were busy fighting Napoleon, industrializing, and increasing trade.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;35054016]Cool, which is next to nothing considering what the US, UK and France has been doing in the region for about a decade now.
Source.[/QUOTE]
Hey, he's just calling them out. Why does it matter what the U.S. has been doing in the Middle East? Does that justify Russia's support of Syria? This is the same logic you were using.
You just made yourself look like a hypocritical fool. You did and said the same thing you criticized in this post.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;35053733]Everyone completely ignores this fact in these threads, and would rather say "yeah well russia is shit with human rights too!" instead of acknowledging their problems.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Gundevil;35058781]And when Americans were offering money for slaughtering natives and giving their Scalps for cash and conducting military operations to wipe out entire native villages and blowing each other up, the Russians were busy fighting Napoleon, industrializing, and increasing trade.[/QUOTE]
And living with enormous portions (far greater than our proportions) of their population enslaved, their press censored, and an ancient feudal absolutist monarchy ruling over them. Comparing Tsarist Russia favorbly in Human rights to [I]anyone[/I] is ludicrous.
[QUOTE=Gundevil;35058781]And when Americans were offering money for slaughtering natives and giving their Scalps for cash and conducting military operations to wipe out entire native villages and blowing each other up, the Russians were busy fighting Napoleon, industrializing, and increasing trade.[/QUOTE]
If you actually read to what I was responding too you would have saw that he was specifically addressing how the Soviet Union has always lead the U.S in human dignity. Considering the Soviet Union didn't even exist during the Indian Removal Act they could not have been leading the U.S in human dignity during that time.
[QUOTE=Gundevil;35058781]And when Americans were offering money for slaughtering natives and giving their Scalps for cash and conducting military operations to wipe out entire native villages and blowing each other up, the Russians were busy fighting Napoleon, industrializing, and increasing trade.[/QUOTE]
First of all, why are you even talking about things that happened hundreds of years ago? How do the Indian Wars have any relevance? And secondly, what Spooter said.
[QUOTE=Gishank;35053164]Where's the evidence that they rigged their elections?[/QUOTE]
I'd start with the fact that he got over 100% of the vote in certain areas, most notably Chechnya, an area that by the sound of it he's pretty hated in.
[QUOTE=Gishank;35053164]Anyway, as for this - to be honest, what's the problem? The US is known to be one of the biggest human rights violators in the world.[/QUOTE]
:v: Once again: Chechnya.
[QUOTE=Gishank;35053164]Where's the evidence that they rigged their elections? Putin has just as many supporters as protestors which would confirm what the elections said. Anyway, as for this - to be honest, what's the problem? The US is known to be one of the biggest human rights violators in the world.[/QUOTE]
I lived in that country
Only few (1) of the people my family knows voted for Putin
[QUOTE=Aerkhan;35053265]Russia.
Telling the USA to respect human rights.
Wow, USA, you have sunk.
Very, very deep.[/QUOTE]
Hypocrisy:
Noun
Applying criticism to others that one does not apply equally to oneself;
They're insulting the U.S.'s human rights record to distract from their own.
[QUOTE=Greenmaster12;35057856]Don't trust those communist russians...[/QUOTE]
you are a horrible poster.
This just in: Saudi Arabia tells the United States to have a less religiously influenced government.
Ahem. Yes, Russia sucks at human rights. However, that does not make their point any less true.
To assert that it does make their point less true is a form of ad hominem fallacy, specifically the [I]tu quoque[/I] fallacy.
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque"][I]Tu quoque ( /tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/), (Latin for "you, too" or "you, also") or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting his failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This dismisses someone's point of view based on criticism of the person's inconsistency, and not the position presented. Thus, it is a form of the ad hominem argument.[/I][/URL]
russia world police
[QUOTE=Spooter;35058899]And living with enormous portions (far greater than our proportions) of their population enslaved, their press censored, and an ancient feudal absolutist monarchy ruling over them. Comparing Tsarist Russia favorbly in Human rights to [I]anyone[/I] is ludicrous.[/QUOTE]
the motherland will silence you with polonium now
enjoy your next vodka, it might be your last
[QUOTE=Marbalo;35061647]Uh, because the reason Russia docked its warship there was to prevent Western intervention? What the fuck do you mean "why does it matter". It clearly matters when Ridge stated the fact that the warship was docked as a counterpoint on its own - as if to say it was some horrible, inexcusable deed.[/quote]
It's the same thing that you criticize "The West" for - meddling in the Middle East for their own gain. Except Russia tends to back dictatorships that kill their own people while "The West" usually aims to remove said dictators.
[quote]Whether the support is justified or not is up for debate, but at least I dont jump to the conclusion that the West should intervene. Sure, they'll stop the civilians being killed but you also have to think long-term, and consider the possibility that the US might bully the country around - "it's our way or the highway" - thus resulting in more civilians overall suffering after the conflict was resolved. They could use the excuse of liberating their country as a valid reason to dictate their own rules and sanctions on the nation. It's not just about oil.[/QUOTE]
You're despicable. You'd leave a mass murdering dictator on his throne just to keep stability? Yeah, more like just to keep Russia's influence in the region. And who said anything about oil? Like another user already posted, "The West" hasn't gotten any more oil from Iraq or Libya since the interventions there.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;35055082]In Russia, if a protest does not have the proper papers, the police arrest organizers and shut down the protest (See the recent protests). In the US, many cities let Occupy protestors stay for weeks if not months without any kind of documents. [/QUOTE]Not true.
Remember that [URL="http://facepunch.com/threads/1168466"]LGBT march[/URL] in Mississippi? It was shut down immediately after discovering they didn't have the necessary papers, the article claims one police officer even stated "its illegal to be gay in Mississippi"
I bring up that incident specifically as well since people seem keen on pointing out Russia's dispersal of LGBT parades, while the U.S. is purported to be more than welcoming.
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