Obama wants to bust your balls, and heads for renewing the assault weapons ban - Polidicks

my answer is because the statistics correlate and there's no other explanation which is [B]exactly whats going on with the gun control graph[/B] [editline]8th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=King Tiger;37130983]No, you cannot prove that the high death toll of a starving nation is because of lack of food because, if that is the only evidence, you don't know that starvation is necessarily the thing causing the higher death rates.[/QUOTE] ugh alright you win you've pounded my skull into the cement too long, i might be just as brain damaged as you right now

There's no evidence supporting the graph that states that the ban is what decreased murder rates, it's just a correlation, it could be coincidence. Maybe the murder rate went down because the police force stepped up. Notice how in 1970 the murder rate drops significantly despite their not being any ban in place, how do you explain that? If the ban was so effective why after the initial drop did murders continue to rise? I could use the same graph and replace the ban with "End of the Vietnam War" with the explanation that ending the Vietnam war made people happy and less likely to murder one another and it would be just as valid. Graphs and statistics are only so reliable.

[QUOTE=Pig;37130997]There's no evidence supporting the graph that states that the ban is what decreased murder rates, it's just a correlation, it could be coincidence. Maybe the murder rate went down because the police force stepped up. Notice how in 1970 the murder rate drops significantly despite their not being any ban in place, how do you explain that? If the ban was so effective why after the initial drop did murders continue to rise? I could use the same graph and replace the ban with end of the Vietnam war with the explanation that the end of Vietnam war with the explanation that ending the Vietnam war made people happy and less likely to murder one another and it would be just as valid. Graphs and statistics are only so reliable.[/QUOTE] it's causation until you prove it was coincidence [editline]8th August 2012[/editline] what possible evidence do you want? really think about your incomprehensibly stupid idea and think to yourself "what would he have to show me to prove for a fact that it was caused by this"

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131003]it's causation until you prove it was coincidence [editline]8th August 2012[/editline] what possible evidence do you want? really think about your incomprehensibly stupid idea and think to yourself "what would he have to show me to prove for a fact that it was caused by this"[/QUOTE] You would have to show (as I've previously stated) that less murders were committed with guns targeted by the gun control laws.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37131026]You would have to show (as I've previously stated) that less murders were committed with guns targeted by the gun control laws.[/QUOTE] that's not possible.. how would you know a crime wasn't committed because it was taken away by the gun control law.. the gun would have never been involved in a crime so you would never have been able to look at that gun and say whether it was used in a (nonexistent) crime or not are you starting to understand why this is fucking stupid [editline]8th August 2012[/editline] the crime didn't happen in the first place so you can't say "ah yes, this crime that DOESNT EXIST, DIDNT HAPPEN because we took the gun away"

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131040]that's not possible.. how would you know a crime wasn't committed because it was taken away by the gun control law.. the gun would have never been involved in a crime so you would never have been able to look at that gun and say whether it was used in a (nonexistent) crime or not are you starting to understand why this is fucking stupid[/QUOTE] That's not what I'm asking. I'm saying: Find out which guns were targeted by the gun control law. Find out how many murders were committed with those guns prior to the law being passed. And compare it to how many murders were committed with those guns after the law was passed. If the amount of murders are lower, that would be causation and the argument would be valid. As you can see, this requires a lot more evidence that what you currently have presented.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37131055]That's not what I'm asking. I'm saying: Find out which guns were targeted by the gun control law. Find out how many murders were committed with those guns prior to the law being passed. And compare it to how many murders were committed with those guns after the law was passed. If the amount of murders are lower, that would be causation and the argument would be valid. As you can see, this requires a lot more evidence that what you currently have presented.[/QUOTE] I'm surprised. Someone who knows how to do their research.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37131055]That's not what I'm asking. I'm saying: Find out which guns were targeted by the gun control law. Find out how many murders were committed by those crimes prior to the law being passed. And compare it to after the law was passed. If the amount of murders are lower, that would be causation and the argument would be valid. As you can see, this requires a lot more evidence that what you currently have presented.[/QUOTE] i can't even explain how terrible you are dude by your own logic that'd be bull because you can't prove it was the gun control law's fault for causing less crimes. it's still possible that gun owners decided to just throw their guns in the trash, or hide them from confiscators but decide in the back of their minds not to commit crimes. you're arguing a stupid philosophical point for the sake of arguing, and at it's core your point is flawed because it invalidates the entire concept of evidence and analysis. [editline]8th August 2012[/editline] you're asking for a form of nonsensical evidence using logic that we can reuse over and over again until we're trying to find the location of individual atoms in somebody's brain to prove that it wasn't a "coincidence" that less crime happened.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131090]i can't even explain how terrible you are dude by your own logic that'd be bull because you can't prove it was the gun control law's fault for causing less crimes. it's still possible that gun owners decided to just throw their guns in the trash, or hide them from confiscators but decide in the back of their minds not to commit crimes. you're arguing a stupid philosophical point for the sake of arguing, and at it's core your point is flawed because it invalidates the entire concept of evidence and analysis.[/QUOTE] You're right. You also have to find how many guns were confiscated and compare that to the lower amount of murders.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;37131078]I'm surprised. Someone who knows how to do their research.[/QUOTE] the only thing worse than this dude's philosophy 101 reasoning is you chiming in with nothing but a pat on the back for someone's deteriorating mental health

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131090]i can't even explain how terrible you are dude by your own logic that'd be bull because you can't prove it was the gun control law's fault for causing less crimes. it's still possible that gun owners decided to just throw their guns in the trash, or hide them from confiscators but decide in the back of their minds not to commit crimes. you're arguing a stupid philosophical point for the sake of arguing, and at it's core your point is flawed because it invalidates the entire concept of evidence and analysis.[/QUOTE] On the other hand, it proves the same thing for you. You can't prove that it was gun control that caused the lower crime rates. While it looks that way on the graph, that doesn't mean that that is what happened. [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;37131109]the only thing worse than this dude's philosophy 101 reasoning is you chiming in with nothing but a pat on the back for someone's deteriorating mental health[/QUOTE] Do you need a pat on the back? King Tiger is clearly distressing you in some way.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;37131103]You're right. You also have to find how many guns were confiscated and compare that to the lower amount of murders.[/QUOTE] but how do you know it wasn't a coincidence the number of guns confiscated influenced the number of murders? what if a bunch of cops formed a secret society and illegally confiscated people's guns, or people let them confiscate 1 gun but they kept another under their bed, or space aliens dropped shipments of guns in people's bedrooms after they were confiscated, for them to commit crime with [editline]8th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Kartoffel;37131114]On the other hand, it proves the same thing for you. You can't prove that it was gun control that caused the lower crime rates. While it looks that way on the graph, that doesn't mean that that is what happened.[/QUOTE] congrats on taking my argument, whose entire purpose is that you can never definitely 100% prove something beyond the most ridiculous, fanatical doubt is true, seriously.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131130]but how do you know it wasn't a coincidence the number of guns confiscated influenced the number of murders? what if a bunch of cops formed a secret society and illegally confiscated people's guns, or people let them confiscate 1 gun but they kept another under their bed, or space aliens dropped shipments of guns in people's bedrooms after they were confiscated, for them to commit crime with [editline]8th August 2012[/editline] congrats on taking my argument, whose entire purpose is that you can never definitely 100% prove something beyond the most ridiculous, fanatical doubt is true, seriously.[/QUOTE] Your arguments are starting to sound more and more...disturbed. Just out of curiosity, did you get drunk? You seem a tad more aggressive than your usual.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37130761]no, it's "wishful thinking" because you didn't propose anything but abstract theories and happy thoughts that would magically make criminals not commit crime.[/QUOTE] Okay, you want an actual theory on how to increase jobs, standards of living, and decrease crime? fine. Stop outsourcing jobs to different countries, get rid of our surplus of corn and replace the farmland with facilities for those jobs we took back. Focus on manufacturing items ourselves instead of relying on imports. Place some of those manufacturing plants in places where the standards of living are poor, so that the people who live there have motivation to take jobs there. Stop convincing students that they need a degree to hold a job, so they don't have to waste money getting a piece of paper that tells them they can do stuff. Any of these things can contribute to an increased standard of living, which would make people less desperate to commit crimes, which, surprisingly, would cut down on crime. Of course, you're probably going to claim all these ideas are dumb, unfeasible, or something else, but hey, if you have any better suggestions, please, share them. But don't just say that the concept of trying to reduce crime by reducing poverty and other motivations to commit crime is an abstract "happy thought". You tell me to contribute, so take your own advice.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;37131161]Okay, you want an actual theory on how to increase jobs, standards of living, and decrease crime? fine. Stop outsourcing jobs to different countries, get rid of our surplus of corn and replace the farmland with facilities for those jobs we took back. Focus on manufacturing items ourselves instead of relying on imports. Place some of those manufacturing plants in places where the standards of living are poor, so that the people who live there have motivation to take jobs there. Stop convincing students that they need a degree to hold a job, so they don't have to waste money getting a piece of paper that tells them they can do stuff. Any of these things can contribute to an increased standard of living, which would make people less desperate to commit crimes, which, surprisingly, would cut down on crime. Of course, you're probably going to claim all these ideas are dumb, unfeasible, or something else, but hey, if you have any better suggestions, please, share them. But don't just say that the concept of trying to reduce crime by reducing poverty and other motivations to commit crime is an abstract "happy thought". You tell me to contribute, so take your own advice.[/QUOTE] lol i love how it took you this long to come up with a baby's-first-idea list of ways to increase jobs. you're asking to reform society as a whole and destroy a few industries just so we can avoid passing an assault weapons ban. in the end even if we do everything in your list (which is never going to happen) there'll still be crime, and plenty of it. [editline]8th August 2012[/editline] my better suggestions: assault weapons ban + everything you said we can do both! :)

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131185]lol i love how it took you this long to come up with a baby's-first-idea list of ways to increase jobs. [/QUOTE] Is there some reason you're acting like a massive douchewad to [I]everyone[/I] who disagrees with you in this thread? Seriously, did someone take your lunch money or something? This sort of hostile attitude is [U]NOT[/U] needed, nor does it contribute to the discussion.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;37131200]Is there some reason you're acting like a massive douchewad to [I]everyone[/I] who disagrees with you in this thread? Seriously, did someone take your lunch money or something? This sort of hostile attitude is [U]NOT[/U] needed, nor does it contribute to the discussion.[/QUOTE] i love how you've virtually never made any actual point, it's like you're a bot designed specifically to have it's artificial feelings hurt and do nothing but complain about that and that alone

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131185]lol i love how it took you this long to come up with a baby's-first-idea list of ways to increase jobs. you're asking to reform society as a whole and destroy a few industries just so we can avoid passing an assault weapons ban. in the end even if we do everything in your list (which is never going to happen) there'll still be crime, and plenty of it.[/QUOTE] Of course there will still be crime, there will ALWAYS be crime, but there won't be as much crime as there is now. And I'm not saying we should avoid an assault weapons ban, you should still do that, but simply banning firearms is not going to magically make everything better. You have to do more than that.

[QUOTE=Xenomoose;37131215]Of course there will still be crime, there will ALWAYS be crime, but there won't be as much crime as there is now. And I'm not saying we should avoid an assault weapons ban, you should still do that, but simply banning firearms is not going to magically make everything better. You have to do more than that.[/QUOTE] wow you spent all that time arguing against an imaginary enemy nobody said we should ban firearms outright

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131206]i love how you've virtually never made any actual point, it's like you're a bot designed specifically to have it's artificial feelings hurt and do nothing but complain about that and that alone[/QUOTE] I'm fucking done with your bullshit. You want to act like an ass? Fine with me.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131185]my better suggestions: assault weapons ban + everything you said we can do both! :)[/QUOTE] Wait, you never read the part in my original post where I mentioned the fact that we should still enact some gun control?

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;37131230]I'm fucking done with your bullshit. You want to act like an ass? Fine with me.[/QUOTE] thanks for the heads up

-snip- double post.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131206]i love how you've virtually never made any actual point, it's like you're a bot designed specifically to have it's artificial feelings hurt and do nothing but complain about that and that alone[/QUOTE] He did make a point. He was saying that you're being an ass about all of this. I would suggest that you be more polite. I suspect he probably would too.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131224]wow you spent all that time arguing against an imaginary enemy nobody said we should ban firearms outright[/QUOTE] But they keep phrasing it like they did, which really makes me slip up.

did i start this oh god i'm a horrible person

[QUOTE=Neat!;37131360]did i start this oh god i'm a horrible person[/QUOTE] haha lol! :-) no you didn't start anything you just made yourself look like a moron while some people went about their business

[QUOTE=Neat!;37131360]did i start this oh god i'm a horrible person[/QUOTE] Yes you are. Go hide in a corner and think about what you've done! >:O

[QUOTE=Kopimi;37131366]haha lol! :-) no you didn't start anything you just made yourself look like a moron while some people went about their business[/QUOTE] someone's hiding something

[QUOTE=RichyZ;37131395]why would you even want a good computer i mean everyone with a computer just hacks credit card companies or ddoses government ran websites[/QUOTE] Wrong thread?