Obama wants to bust your balls, and heads for renewing the assault weapons ban - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;37119932]Of course gun homicide rates are going to be [i]slightly higher[/i], seeing as they are legal in the U.S. But over all, our homicide rates are much, much lower because we have guns to protect ourselves. I don't see how this isn't obvious.[/QUOTE] It's nothing but cherry-picking statistics and it's annoying as hell.

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;37119793] If widespread gun ownership was truly the primary contributing factor to firearm homicides then Switzerland wouldn't have a lower homicide rate than Great Britain.[/QUOTE] Except switzerland has a HUGE number of firearm homicides compared to the UK. I don't care what your wikipedia tables say, the ONS says Switzerland has much more firearm crime. [url]https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByctosVIgSciMDJ2TkZMTzJhMlE/edit[/url] I'm really tired of linking this, but you all keep arguing claiming bullshit about firearm and crime correlation when you have no idea what you're even talking about.

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;37119932]Of course gun homicide rates are going to be [i]slightly higher[/i], seeing as they are legal in the U.S. But over all, our homicide rates are much, much lower because we have guns to protect ourselves. I don't see how this isn't obvious.[/QUOTE] [img]http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2012620/reg_634.jamesholmes.mh.072012.jpg[/img] Because guns stopped him.

[QUOTE=AngryChairR;37119942]Except switzerland has a HUGE number of firearm homicides compared to the UK. I don't care what your wikipedia tables say, the ONS says Switzerland has much more firearm crime. [url]https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByctosVIgSciMDJ2TkZMTzJhMlE/edit[/url] I'm really tired of linking this, but you all keep arguing claiming bullshit about firearm and crime correlation when you have no idea what you're even talking about.[/QUOTE] You keep focusing on "firearm homicides" like no other kind of homicide exists. Stop it.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37119915]How are you going to commit mass murder with one? Oh wait, an automatic rifle is a perfect fit for mass murder. Funny how you never hear about crazed gunman in Switzerland though.[/QUOTE] This may be perhaps due to the wealth of the country, political, social, economic, etc stability and the fact that the borders are sealed very tightly to immigration. I.e the guns don't get rid of crime. It's very /possible/ that another reason may exist.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;37119958][img]http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2012620/reg_634.jamesholmes.mh.072012.jpg[/img] Because guns stopped him.[/QUOTE] Appeal to emotion. It's a fallacy, look it up. [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;37119961]This may be perhaps due to the wealth of the country, political, social, economic, etc stability and the fact that the borders are sealed very tightly to immigration. I.e the guns don't get rid of crime. It's very /possible/ that another reason may exist.[/QUOTE] Then how about we look for that other factor instead of blindly banning scary things?

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37119960]You keep focusing on "firearm homicides" like no other kind of homicide exists. Stop it.[/QUOTE] I think people are talking about firearm homicides not because they believe no other homicides happen, but because this thread isn't about knives, swords, or frying pans. It's about firearms.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;37119958][img]http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2012620/reg_634.jamesholmes.mh.072012.jpg[/img] Because guns stopped him.[/QUOTE] christ this post is like an entire daily mail article seriously, good job, not in all my days of sarcasm could i ever pull it off like you

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37119960]You keep focusing on "firearm homicides" like no other kind of homicide exists. Stop it.[/QUOTE] Didn't you just claim 3 different incorrect facts about firearm homicides last page? I think you did. Therefore you get to look at that big graph and inform yourself before you continue blabbing.

I always laugh when a gun related article is posted, because there's ALWAYS a 4+ page argument.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;37119958][img]http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2012620/reg_634.jamesholmes.mh.072012.jpg[/img] Because guns stopped him.[/QUOTE] The theater he opened fire in was one of those lovely "gun free zones."

[QUOTE=Raidyr;37119976]I think people are talking about firearm homicides not because they believe no other homicides happen, but because this thread isn't about knives, swords, or frying pans. It's about firearms.[/QUOTE] It's a debate about whether banning them would lower violent crime. People keep pointing to lower gun homicide rates like it proves something, but when overall homicide numbers go up, it doesn't prove anything.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37119966]Appeal to emotion. It's a fallacy, look it up. [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] Then how about we look for that other factor instead of blindly banning scary things?[/QUOTE] I am not trying to utilize your emotions, I am trying to make a point. he had weapons, I dunno if they were legal or not, but that's besides the point I am making. Guns didn't stop him. That's the point I am making here. I bet at least 10 people in that theatre were armed (i have no actual numbers, but it would seem plausible) and yet, I cant recall him being shot back at

[QUOTE=dogmachines;37119966]Then how about we look for that other factor instead of blindly banning scary things?[/QUOTE] Well the way I see it, the best solution would be restrictive use of firearms AND social/political/economic reforms that would help get rid of crime.

I haven't heard this from anyone else yet. If this is true, this is absolutely outrageous and I'm going to flip a shit.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;37119510]That's stupid. I'm sure even Australians collect knives and stuff like that. Either one has kill potential along with a lot of other things that aren't even considered weapons.[/QUOTE] I don't think many Australians would collect knives. And how is what I said stupid? People have rated me dumb without providing an answer.

[QUOTE=AngryChairR;37119984]Didn't you just claim 3 different incorrect facts about firearm homicides last page? I think you did. Therefore you get to look at that big graph and inform yourself before you continue blabbing.[/QUOTE] I looked at murders per capita and saw that Australia has about twice the murder rate of the US despite it's strict gun laws. [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Marbalo;37120011][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide[/URL] So who's word will you take for it? Wikipedia or NationMaster? Furthermore, in the same article;[/QUOTE] So wikipedia says US crime is going down consistently, and has actually been cut in half since 1990 despite the fact that our gun laws are quite loose.

So apparently, my very nice, fun to shoot Saiga falls under the category of an "Assault Weapon". It's got a pistol grip and a folding stock. I paid good money for that rifle. If that bill gets reinstated, and they want this weapon, they'll have to come take it from me. I am sure I'm not the only one who says that there is no way in [i]HELL[/i] they are taking away my freedom to own these weapons. I don't care [i]who[/i] they are!

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37120006]Well the way I see it, the best solution would be restrictive use of firearms AND social/political/economic reforms that would help get rid of crime.[/QUOTE] Restricting firearms hasn't been shown to do anything, and statistics suggest it makes things worse for many areas.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;37119781][URL="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims"] Yay Violent Crime Victims [/URL][/QUOTE] [quote]DEFINITION: People victimized by crime (as a % of the total population). Data refer to people victimized by one or more of 11 crimes recorded in the survey: robbery, burglary, attempted burglary, car theft, car vandalism, bicycle theft, sexual assault, theft from car, theft of personal property, assault and threats. [B]Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.[/B][/quote] You should read what you post more carefully. A lot of those crimes aren't preventable with guns anyway, most people don't steal your bike or from your car while you are using it.

And guns don't cause homicide. That's the people that do. Restricting guns is not going to cut down on homicide, because if someone [i]really[/i] wants someone dead, they're just going to use more barbaric methods.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;37120040]False, the US has gotten stricter and stricter gun control laws ever since the 70's. [url]http://usgovinfo.about.com/blguntime.htm[/url][/QUOTE] Heller v DC. Assault weapons ban expiring. Shouldn't the assault weapon ban expiration alone have caused a spike in crime?

[QUOTE=Marbalo;37120040]False, the US has gotten stricter and stricter gun control laws ever since the 70's. [url]http://usgovinfo.about.com/blguntime.htm[/url][/QUOTE] And yet Washington DC which has the harshest restrictions on civilian firearms ownership still has the highest homicide rate in the US. Also, funny enough, when the DC handgun ban was deemed unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court in 2008, the homicide rate for DC dropped from 31.5 per 100,000 to 24 per 100,000 in 2009 and 2010.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;37120045]And guns don't cause homicide. That's the people that do. Restricting guns is not going to cut down on homicide, because if someone [i]really[/i] wants someone dead, they're just going to use more barbaric methods.[/QUOTE] this is very true to an extent. while drugs are illegal, people still make millions off of them and are in constant circulation in most first world and third world countries alike. the same principle can be applied for guns; it's about creating a society where it's people are happy enough and have a high enough standard of living to not have to resort to any gun violence whatsoever.

The point is this: I can go out today and buy an AR-15. I can't do any such thing in the UK or Australia, yet my country has a declining violent crime rate.

I love how instead of arguing further people just rate each other dumb. I wish we could just admit the other guy was wrong when it was proven, but we can't.

[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;37120159]I love how instead of arguing further people just rate each other dumb.[/QUOTE] It's an Ad Hominem Fallacy. Instead of having a civilized argument, people just insult each other. It's stupid. [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;37120159]I wish we could just admit the other guy was wrong when it was proven, but we can't.[/QUOTE] Narcissism is a bitch, ain't it? [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] I'm just going to take a guess, and say no one is winning.

It is far too easy for criminals to get their hands on illegal guns because they can be bought legally and are everywhere but it is necessary for citizens to have them because illegal guns are so common and easy to get a hold of. It is a classic example of the solution fueling the problem and creating a vicious cycle that can't be broken easily. Banning them will do fuck all, it will just turn all the legal gun owners into illegal gun owners when they don't want to turn them in.

[QUOTE=Kartoffel;37120171]It's an Ad Hominem Fallacy. Instead of having a civilized argument, people just insult each other. It's stupid. [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] Narcissism is a bitch, ain't it? [editline]7th August 2012[/editline] I'm just going to take a guess, and say no one is winning.[/QUOTE] when arguing on the internet, everybody loses

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;37120079]And yet Washington DC which has the harshest restrictions on civilian firearms ownership [b]still has the highest homicide rate in the US[/b].[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.]Washington, D.C. has not had the distinction of having the highest homicide rate in the United States since the mid 1990s[/url].