• Scientology doc 'Going Clear' shocks Sundance filmgoers
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[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;47021384]I don't know about you, but Scientology is way worse than any sects of Islam.[/QUOTE] Bodycount [QUOTE=Last or First;47021400]You don't have to pay huge sums of money to be Muslim. And Islam has a multitude of sects, while there's only one Church of Scientology. I mean, I guess there's a small handful of independent Scientologists, but people aren't talking about them when they're saying Scientology is a criminal organization. The vast majority of Scientologists are in the Church of Scientology, whereas the vast majority of Muslims [I]aren't[/I] in terrorist organizations.[/QUOTE] [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakat]Zakat[/url] [QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;47021474]Well its more of that the Church of scientology reminds me of a cult is of their practices, complete control of your money, complete isolation from your family, and forcing children to adopt to their accustoms, and basically, making sure that whoever leaves their organization to basically shut their mouth and would send threats and death threats if not.[/quote] Some forms of Islam include control over personal finances, control of education, and mandate the death penalty for apostates. [quote]And why are you comparing Islam to Scientology, Islam is a thousand year old religion that is worshipped by over a billion people in the world. It is a very organized religion and most of the people in the religion are sane and are not a bunch of crazy terrorist nut jobs. But you have scientology, a "religion" that just shows up in the middle of nowhere in the 20th century. It's mostly centered around the "contribution of money from the community". Usually, past members of the organization (if they get in the pubic eye alive) usually say how controversial and how cruel their treatments were to people that were part of the organization. And also, how fishy is it that a religion believes that humanity was created by Alien overlords. Sounds more like a science fiction author tried to create a "religion" for a good amount of cash. And trust me, i've encountered cults before, i was with a group of people that helped break apart a cult's sanctuary in my town. The whole building was full of satanic imagery and they had their own "bible".[/QUOTE] So your metric for the validity of a religion is how old it is? Let's imagine a new cult springs up right now. It is small, with a few thousand followers at most. It centers around the veneration of a man who died two centuries ago, its members creepily refer to one another as "brother" and "sister," and there are rumors that cannibalism is practiced! They hold weekly meetings in secret locations away from the public eye. Attempts to question or gain information about this mysterious cult are resisted, as all information is withheld until you join the cult yourself. The cultists refuse to participate in any civic duties and it is suspected that they plan to overthrow the government. The cult members preach the end of the world and say that they can save you if you join them. Sound spooky? I've just described Christianity in the 3rd Century. As for your disdain for the particulars of Scientology's dogma, how is it any more ridiculous than talking snakes, virgin births, or flying horses?
[QUOTE=Explosions;47021191]What is the difference between the two? Cult is just the label the big church puts on the little one. What's funny is that you can have a guy on a street corner with a cardboard sign ranting about magical happenings and the end of the world and he's just a crazy person. Then, if you get a few dozen or hundred people to believe in it then it's a "cult." If you get some thousands or millions it becomes a religion. Imagine the comments in this thread if we replaced Scientology with Islam Suddenly, everyone in the thread is a huge bigoted racist who doesn't understand the intricacies of the religion. It's Islamophobia to say these things about Islam, a bannable offense. But since it's a less popular religion it's fair game now.[/QUOTE] Bloody Hell, you're insufferable.
[QUOTE=Deathtrooper2;47021858]Well its a Money scam more than anything, and it was created by a Science fiction author instead of a grand prophet or a Priest or rabbi.[/QUOTE] What credentials does being a priest offer to the validity of the dogma? Why could an author not have been correct but an expert in mythology could be?
[QUOTE=Explosions;47017013]You can't make fun of their religion. You're being a Scientolophobe and a racist.[/QUOTE] We're just dealing with the extreme "radical" minority of Scientologists anyway, the moderate majority are normal people.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47021926]What credentials does being a priest offer to the validity of the dogma? Why could an author not have been correct but an expert in mythology could be?[/QUOTE] Its considering the fact that Scientology is not a religion at all, its more of the fact that is a terrible cult that is torturing, stealing, and causing hell to the people who are apart of it and are trying to escape it. And I'm not saying all cults are bad, say if there is a cult that worships like the Christian religion, but has some stuff changed, but treats their people normally. Thats a good cult. Scientology, even though it is a cult, shouldn't be considered a cult at all considering that they are just a guise to steal people's money.
There is a difference between Islam/ Christianity (huge, widespread religions, absolutely no control over who can claim to be one, non-unified apart from individual organisations which are often not associated with each other, interpretation varies wildly) and Scientology (single unified group, requires payment to join and you'll get sued into oblivion if you badmouth it, almost every single action has been directly approved by high-ranking individuals, still commits atrocities equivalent to some terrorist organisations despite its relatively small size). If Scientology was some big thing with lots of different denominations, with over a billion followers, I could see your point. But Scientology isn't even 100 years old- the issue behind that isn't that 'tradition excuses horrible things', it's that 'tradition allows variation'. 'Islam' cannot be held responsible for the actions of Muslims because it is, at this point, more of a religious concept than an explicit set of rules which must be followed. Scientology [I]can[/I] be held responsible as it is one group, in which membership must be earned somehow (ie money), and members do not or cannot speak out against its actions. Comparing one of the world's most widespread religions with an exorbitantly corrupt cult is like comparing Classical music with Nickelback- some similarities but one is merely a 'type' of thing, whereas the other is a specific item.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;47021384]I don't know about you, but Scientology is way worse than any sects of Islam.[/QUOTE] Worse than ISIS? Okay
[QUOTE]Scientology vehemently opposes psychiatry and psychology.[/QUOTE] No wonder, they're basically fuck ups.
Now for an expose of the Catholic Church...I bet Scientology's controversy is a joke compared to the shit we don't know about it in the Vatican.
I think Explosions has a point in that religion has some control and some corruption when it comes to people's lives. However, it's nowhere near comparable to Scientologys' mastery on trapping and abusing it's followers in one official, unavoidable sect.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47021191]What is the difference between the two? Cult is just the label the big church puts on the little one. What's funny is that you can have a guy on a street corner with a cardboard sign ranting about magical happenings and the end of the world and he's just a crazy person. Then, if you get a few dozen or hundred people to believe in it then it's a "cult." If you get some thousands or millions it becomes a religion. Imagine the comments in this thread if we replaced Scientology with Islam. Suddenly, everyone in the thread is a huge bigoted racist who doesn't understand the intricacies of the religion. It's Islamophobia to say these things about Islam, a bannable offense. But since it's a less popular religion it's fair game now.[/QUOTE] Are you fucking daft? Is any sort of criticism of any sort of beliefs whatsoever too far now? Do you really think one, specific, very hierarchical and very organised group is the same as something as vague as "Islam"? Do you think I'm not allowed to criticize ISIS because they're just ONE group in Islam and you're unable to see the difference between a group and a whole? Is it impossible to criticize UKIP without being accused of being an anti-democracy fascist who hates all the other political parties as well? EDIT: like forgive me for being rude but if you're just going to replace my words so you can make a hamfisted point then why bother ever saying anything? I could have criticized Israel's settlement policy and you could have replaced my words and said "aha! Antisemitism is still alive and well!!" or I could have criticized Hezbollah and you could have accused me of islamophobia.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47017013]You can't make fun of their religion. You're being a Scientolophobe and a racist.[/QUOTE] Are you seriously trying to use this to legitimize how much you angst over Islam.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;47032696]Are you seriously trying to use this to legitimize how much you angst over Islam.[/QUOTE] That first post was kinda funny, but then to just start throwing punches at Islam is a little unwarranted.
It's funny how the only reason people in this thread have been able to give for why it's acceptable to criticize Scientology is that they disagree with its specific beliefs and effects.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47021926]What credentials does being a priest offer to the validity of the dogma? Why could an author not have been correct but an expert in mythology could be?[/QUOTE] It's not about wether or not their religion can/might be right, it's the fact that time, and time again Scientology has shown itself as an organized criminal organization that'll slander, intimidate, sue and sleaze its way into silencing any noteable critisism. People have been followed and harassed, their followers have been literally enslaved and tortured. They use very common cult tactics to rope in and radicalize their members while isolating them from others, everything about this cult (yes) is disgusting and should be illegal. Read some of this shit: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White"]Snow White[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout"]Freakout[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29"]Fair game policy[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Base"]Gold base 100 hour/week work shifts for 50$ & more[/URL] Scientology can't be reasonably justified, and I'm confident in saying that.
[QUOTE=NoOnE#235;47032758]It's not about wether or not their religion can/might be right, it's the fact that time, and time again Scientology has shown itself as an organized criminal organization that'll slander, intimidate, sue and sleaze its way into silencing any noteable critisism. People have been followed and harassed, their followers have been literally enslaved and tortured. They use very common cult tactics to rope in and radicalize their members while isolating them from others, everything about this cult (yes) is disgusting and should be illigal. Read some of this shit: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White"]Snow White[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout"]Freakout[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29"]Fair game policy[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Base"]Gold base 100 hour/week work shifts for 50$ & more[/URL] Scientology can't be reasonably justified, and I'm confident in saying that.[/QUOTE] You're judging all of Scientology by the actions of its radicals. Racist. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Dumb shit posting/trolling. Quit being dumb in SH threads already, last warning." - postal))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Explosions;47032751]It's funny how the only reason people in this thread have been able to give for why it's acceptable to criticize Scientology is that they disagree with its specific beliefs and effects.[/QUOTE] Also the government infiltration, blackmailing, tampering with authentic documents and intimidation of people, along with trying to ruin the lives of people who try to leave or investigate Scientology. [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;47032764]You're judging all of Scientology by the actions of its radicals. Racist.[/QUOTE] You can't be serious, you're just trolling. I refuse to believe you aren't.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47032764]You're judging all of Scientology by the actions of its radicals. Racist.[/QUOTE] Yeah, this is downright trolling.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47032764]You're judging all of Scientology by the actions of its radicals. Racist.[/QUOTE] oh come the fuck on, man, scientology are money launderers, not a religion
[QUOTE=OutspokenGolf;47032781]oh come the fuck on, man, scientology are money launderers, not a religion[/QUOTE] What is your definition of religion?
Just ignore explosions. He's on a one man crusade to extole the evils inherent to Islam, and you're only wasting your time.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47032784]What is your definition of religion?[/QUOTE] Genuine faith in something other than literally fuckin aliens. Granted most religions make a heck of a lot of dosh but that usually goes back into the community. They usually give something back. Scientology just keeps it to themselves, like one of those mormon megachurches or something. It's a personal enrichment scheme, dude, not a religion.
[QUOTE=OutspokenGolf;47032805]Genuine faith in something other than literally fuckin aliens. Granted most religions make a heck of a lot of dosh but that usually goes back into the community. They usually give something back. Scientology just keeps it to themselves, like one of those mormon megachurches or something. It's a personal enrichment scheme, dude, not a religion.[/QUOTE] Haha great definition. "All of them [b]EXCEPT[/b] Scientology because aliens are wacky!" Why are aliens so strange compared to the thousands of other hilarious religious nonsense I could mention? Aliens are a disqualifier but magical flying horses are just fine. Basically, any genuine definition of religion is going to have to include Scientology. If you came up with a definition that excluded it, I could easily find other religions that are excluded as well. Also, Scientology runs various drug and alcohol rehab facilities. There's the "giving back" element, although I don't know why that would be a requirement for a religion.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47032819]Haha great definition. "All of them [b]EXCEPT[/b] Scientology because aliens are wacky!" Why are aliens so strange compared to the thousands of other hilarious religious nonsense I could mention? Aliens are a disqualifier but magical flying horses are just fine. Basically, any genuine definition of religion is going to have to include Scientology. If you came up with a definition that excluded it, I could easily find other religions that are excluded as well. Also, Scientology runs various drug and alcohol rehab facilities. There's the "giving back" element, although I don't know why that would be a requirement for a religion.[/QUOTE] I am going to stop posting now as this argument is clearly futile. You are 100% right, religion is evil and there is nothing that an individual could possibly stand to gain by being religious. I'm going to reevaluate my life choices now and weep softly into a pillow because I thought the wrong thing was right. Maybe i'll write a couple of books about how you and I are right and everyone else is wrong. You've won. You've finally won.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47021920][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakat]Zakat[/url][/quote] 2.5% on average. That isn't a huge amount. Scientology requires you to pay money to "upgrade your operating thetan level", which lets you learn more about the belief. You have to pay thousands of dollars to actually learn what you believe. [QUOTE=Explosions;47021920]Some forms of Islam include control over personal finances, control of education, and mandate the death penalty for apostates.[/quote] And those are the sects that everyone hates and makes fun of. Scientology has one main sect. Their only sect is their radical sect. [QUOTE=Explosions;47021920]So your metric for the validity of a religion is how old it is? Let's imagine a new cult springs up right now. It is small, with a few thousand followers at most. It centers around the veneration of a man who died two centuries ago, its members creepily refer to one another as "brother" and "sister," and there are rumors that cannibalism is practiced! They hold weekly meetings in secret locations away from the public eye. Attempts to question or gain information about this mysterious cult are resisted, as all information is withheld until you join the cult yourself. The cultists refuse to participate in any civic duties and it is suspected that they plan to overthrow the government. The cult members preach the end of the world and say that they can save you if you join them. Sound spooky? I've just described Christianity in the 3rd Century. As for your disdain for the particulars of Scientology's dogma, how is it any more ridiculous than talking snakes, virgin births, or flying horses?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=cathal6606;47021564]This is a pretty fucking big point that you all seem to want to ignore, just because Scientology isnt as a well established as other religions doesnt mean its any more or less credible. [sp]Never thought I'd see the day where I argue on behalf of scientology[/sp][/QUOTE] I have to agree with this part. I would say its beliefs aren't that different in legitimacy compared to any other religion, because to me, pretty much all religion is hooey. The problem is, Scientology is exceedingly dangerous and exploitative hooey. To compare, our problem with ISIS isn't that they're Muslim, but that they're killing people.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47032784]What is your definition of religion?[/QUOTE] Ok your trolling at this point.
This is what happens when you combine lots of money and abuse of the freedom of religion. These people are criminals housing psychopaths and murderers. They can get away with anything, so they will do anything they want.
If you guys can't see the point explosions was clearly making, then you're just blind.
[QUOTE=Explosions;47032819]Haha great definition. "All of them [b]EXCEPT[/b] Scientology because aliens are wacky!" Why are aliens so strange compared to the thousands of other hilarious religious nonsense I could mention? Aliens are a disqualifier but magical flying horses are just fine. Basically, any genuine definition of religion is going to have to include Scientology. If you came up with a definition that excluded it, I could easily find other religions that are excluded as well. Also, Scientology runs various drug and alcohol rehab facilities. There's the "giving back" element, although I don't know why that would be a requirement for a religion.[/QUOTE] because scientology was written with clear intent to be monitized by Elron Hubbard, while religions of the world generally didn't start as a way to monetize people. now its true they are a religion in the sense that they have a scripture and faith, but its a clear distinction that you have to pay higher and higher tiers into the church to "belong" while any other religion of the world can be practiced by one's self
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;47035549]If you guys can't see the point explosions was clearly making, then you're just blind.[/QUOTE] and if you can't see why it was refuted then you're dumb, it was clearly nitpicking too
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