Gun retailers stop selling guns and ammo to police - Polidicks

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39703140]Now you're putting words in my mouth, I didn't say he made any claims. I'm retaliating against what he is putting out as his beliefs; i.e. that America is full of mindless gun zealots, which he associated with himself by quoting and agreeing with the person who actually [I]did[/I] say that And now I'm criticizing his desire to start shit by making that associating and then saying "well I didn't say that"[/QUOTE] Oh, I see what you mean. That wasn't what you said, but I see what you mean. And you're still wrong, rilez already addressed this.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39703140][B]Now you're putting words in my mouth[/B], I didn't say he made any claims. I'm retaliating against what he is putting out as his beliefs; i.e. that America is full of mindless gun zealots, which he associated with himself by quoting and agreeing with the person who actually [I]did[/I] say that And now I'm criticizing his desire to start shit by making that associating and then saying "well I didn't say that"[/QUOTE] i feel like i've heard you say this at least like 4 times in this thread when nobody has done it just a heads up, when someone follows an obvious train of thought and asks you a question like "so are you saying.." that isn't putting words in your mouth, its them trying to clarify your ridiculously vague and dodgy stance on a subject its kinda the entire reason they phrased it as a question in the first place

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39703472]i feel like i've heard you say this at least like 4 times in this thread when nobody has done it just a heads up, when someone follows an obvious train of thought and asks you a question like "so are you saying.." that isn't putting words in your mouth, its them trying to clarify your ridiculously vague and dodgy stance on a subject its kinda the entire reason they phrased it as a question in the first place[/QUOTE] Except I'm not the one being ridiculously vague and dodgy and nobody's asked me "so are you saying". Are you sure you're quoting the right person?

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39703522]Except I'm not the one being ridiculously vague and dodgy and nobody's asked me "so are you saying". Are you sure you're quoting the right person?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hellduck;39703111]Quoting and agreeing is claiming to be a pro debater? I'm not following.[/QUOTE] he asked you a question to clarify what you're trying to say thats not putting words in your mouth so calm down and quit being so hypersensitive to everything people say to you

Not to mention I've said that once

I personally think this is really silly. It's not like the police support such legislation, most officers I know openly oppose gun restrictions.

The biggest point I seem to see is that people seem to think if they don't have guns they'll be in danger. I moved to Australia recently and there is are some pretty strict gun laws here, and I don't get mugged or beaten everytime I go out because of it.

[QUOTE=plunger435;39704494]The biggest point I seem to see is that people seem to think if they don't have guns they'll be in danger. I moved to Australia recently and there is are some pretty strict gun laws here, and I don't get mugged or beaten everytime I go out because of it.[/QUOTE] Unless you can prove that's because of firearms your point isn't really valid.

[QUOTE=Hellduck;39704590]Unless you can prove that's because of firearms your point isn't really valid.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/261-280/tandi269/view%20paper.html[/URL] The time of the gun buy back goes right along side a 47% decrease in firearm related violence. [URL]http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/952361A2A29BDBB4CA25729D001C09CF/%24File/33090_2005.pdf[/URL] Firearm related suicides fell from 22% of suicides to 7% of suicides after the gun buy back as well. [img]http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/facts/2008/2008/fig012.png[/img]

[QUOTE=plunger435;39704671][URL]http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/261-280/tandi269/view%20paper.html[/URL] The time of the gun buy back goes right along side a 47% decrease in firearm related violence. [URL]http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/952361A2A29BDBB4CA25729D001C09CF/%24File/33090_2005.pdf[/URL] Firearm related suicides fell from 22% of suicides to 7% of suicides after the gun buy back as well. [url]http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/facts/2008/2008/fig012.png[/url][/QUOTE] What exactly are you trying to prove here ? most of those are suicides, homicides were barely affected according to your source and you're not showing overall homicides and suicides. People are not going to kill themselves less because their guns were taken away, and suicides were on a steady decline anyways.

[QUOTE=Deep;39704997]What exactly are you trying to prove here ? most of those are suicides, homicides were barely affected according to your source and you're not showing overall homicides and suicides. People are not going to kill themselves less because their guns were taken away, and suicides were on a steady decline anyways.[/QUOTE] The bottom graph of my first post is overall homocides, and you can note how it declines after 96'. [IMG]http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi2/tandi269-4.gif[/IMG] Keep in mind that firearms are still allowed for hunting, target shooting, and sports shooting, etc. Just not for self defence.

[QUOTE=plunger435;39705080]The bottom graph is overall homocides, and you can note how it declines after 96'.[/QUOTE] And then it sharply increases to be more than it [I]ever was before[/I]

[QUOTE=plunger435;39705080]The bottom graph is overall homocides, and you can note how it declines after 96'.[/QUOTE] where

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39705103]And then it sharply increases to be more than it [I]ever was before[/I][/QUOTE] Only to fall to an all time low, and stay there. And Deep if your counter argument is that total homocides remain at the same rate before and after the banning of guns, even though firearm related deaths decrease, then what's the point of owning guns for self defence if it doesn't affect the homocides rates either.

[QUOTE=Hellduck;39703111]Quoting and agreeing is claiming to be a pro debater? I'm not following.[/QUOTE] In regards to this from earlier, I misunderstood part of this exchange. When I said "that's exactly what he's doing" I was referring to him being slippery by quoting Rusty and agreeing, not claiming to be a pro debater. Sorry for fucking that up and jumping on you about it. I still think rilez was being a slippery fuck.

[QUOTE=plunger435;39705080]The bottom graph is overall homocides, and you can note how it declines after 96'. [/QUOTE] "Trends in handgun and other firearms deaths in Australia" It includes suicide and it's not overall homicide.

[QUOTE=plunger435;39705080]The bottom graph is overall homocides, and you can note how it declines after 96'. [Img]http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi2/tandi269-4.gif[/img][/QUOTE] what

[QUOTE=Deep;39705178]"Trends in handgun and other firearms deaths in Australia"[/QUOTE] The bottom graph in the first post, not that one, which you seemed to have ignored completely.

[QUOTE=plunger435;39705127]Only to fall to an all time low, and stay there. And Deep if your counter argument is that total homocides remain at the same rate before and after the banning of guns, even though firearm related deaths decrease, then what's the point of owning guns for self defence if it doesn't affect the homocides rates either.[/QUOTE] What's the point of banning them? Having a gun gives you a chance. I'd rather have a chance.

[QUOTE=plunger435;39705208]The bottom graph in the first post, not that one, which you seemed to have ignored completely.[/QUOTE] So it begins to go down 6 years later, are you sure that's related.

[QUOTE=Deep;39705306]So it begins to go down 6 years later, are you sure that's related.[/QUOTE] Are you unable to read? It's helpfully labelled on the graph for you.

[QUOTE=Deep;39705306]So it begins to go down 6 years later, are you sure that's related.[/QUOTE] Considering it happens a year after the ban as well it can be seen as related. Do you have any statistics presenting the opposing views, because I noticed I was asked for mine, but no one else presented any after I did. [QUOTE=teh pirate;39705301]What's the point of banning them? Having a gun gives you a chance. I'd rather have a chance.[/QUOTE] There were quite a lot of people who said they simply wanted theirs for targeting shooting, hunting, etc. who have a legitimate reason to have them, and can get them in places like Australia.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39705365]Are you unable to read? It's helpfully labelled on the graph for you.[/QUOTE] I don't understand. Are you surprised that a government buyback program reduced the number of firearms in circulation? [t]http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi2/tandi269-4.gif[/t] This graph appears to relate to ownership, not murders committed by type (since it's not labeled and the poster didn't provide any information on it; if I'm wrong, sorry). The other graph doesn't show me anything other than a massive increase in homicides shortly after the buyback and then a slow decrease. [editline]25th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=plunger435;39705372]There were quite a lot of people who said they simply wanted theirs for targeting shooting, hunting, etc. who have a legitimate reason to have them, and can get them in places like Australia.[/QUOTE] That's all I want mine for. That's all anyone wants theirs for. Nobody [I]wants[/I] to have a gun to kill somebody else, but in the event of a home invasion or a robbery/assault outside of the home, my right to own and carry a firearm can potentially save my life and the lives of my family members.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39705389]I don't understand. Are you surprised that a government buyback program reduced the number of firearms in circulation? [t]http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi2/tandi269-4.gif[/t] This graph appears to relate to ownership, not murders committed by type (since it's not labeled and the poster didn't provide any information on it; if I'm wrong, sorry). The other graph doesn't show me anything other than a massive increase in homicides shortly after the buyback and then a slow decrease. [editline]25th February 2013[/editline] That's all I want mine for. That's all anyone wants theirs for. Nobody [I]wants[/I] to have a gun to kill somebody else, but in the event of a home invasion or a robbery/assault outside of the home, my right to own and carry a firearm can potentially save my life and the lives of my family members.[/QUOTE] I'm glad to see you didn't actually read any of the sources I posted at all, because if you did you'd have seen the title for that graph in it. Figure 4. What's the point of people asking me to post statistics, and sources if no one actually bothers to look at them? Except self defence wasn't in the list I made, and isn't a valid reason to purchase one in a lot of countries, and can I see your statistics on that last point?

i have a bow & a crossbow, these were also designed just for killing stuff so what's the verdict on them?

[QUOTE=plunger435;39705471]I'm glad to see you didn't actually read any of the sources I posted at all, because if you did you'd have seen the title for that graph in it. Figure 4. What's the point of people asking me to post statistics, and sources if no one actually bothers to look at them? Except self defence wasn't in the list I made, and isn't a valid reason to purchase one in a lot of countries, and can I see your statistics on that last point?[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, I'm multitasking heavily right now. I can't devote a whole lot of attention to this discussion at the moment. I said all anyone wants a gun for is really for target shooting or hunting. Nobody wants to have to use a gun or anything else to kill somebody. It's not something anyone looks forward to. That doesn't contradict anything that you said. I then said that having a gun in my house serves as a defense measure in the event that someone breaks in. You want statistics for [I]that[/I]? It's a simple if-then statement: if I have immediate access to a firearm, then I can potentially protect myself and my family from a threat.

[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;39700124]i can't help but laff @ america so many things are in a terrible state, and because guns have been the only thing fighting guns for years and years, they feel that they're incapable of not using guns to combat everything a lot of the world seems to be fine not solving gun problems by throwing massive numbers of plastic weapons at the problem until it disappears, and using that to justify having the guns in the first place. look at the likes of the UK, you CAN buy weapons legally, and they're also easy to buy illegally, but gun crime as a whole is tiiiiiiny. Our police force are at risk, but there was this recent survey thing where most police officers said they wouldn't want to have guns. if police have guns, criminals need guns to combat those guns. Then police and normal people need guns to defend themselves, the cycle keeps going. America has dug itself in to a big enough shithole that just outright banning guns out of nowhere would fuck up people who abide by the law, because there are so many illegally owned guns and people who won't give up the ones they own without a fight. good job edit: half the reason they're good for self defense and home defense is because gun crime is so fucking horrific in america. because there's so many guns. because criminals need to outgun police and people with guns. over here in britland, you're lucky if a home invader has a knife, let alone a gun. well, unlucky. we have a trained branch of the police that use firearms, and people are allowed to defend themselves through non lethal means (tazers/defense spray do work, but most people thin otherwise.)[/QUOTE] yeah no. America's rate of violent and armed crime has more to do with socioeconomic issues than it does to do with the presence of firearms. Go ahead explain to me why a country like switzerland can have an ACTUAL assault rifle in the home of almost every male of service age, yet next to no firearm homicide, let alone violent crime in general?

[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;39705690]yeah no. America's rate of violent and armed crime has more to do with socioeconomic issues than it does to do with the presence of firearms. Go ahead explain to me why a country like sweden can have an ACTUAL assault rifle in the home of almost every male of service age, yet next to no firearm homicide, let alone violent crime in general?[/QUOTE] i think you mean switzerland not sweden

[QUOTE=Red Toaster;39705759]i think you mean switzerland not sweden[/QUOTE] shit nice catch

is this a protest? Well thats just alright with me