Shit's about to go down in California in November, Marijuana legalization up on the ballot - Polidicks

It'll never pass.

[QUOTE=Cael;21008197]Erowid begs to differ:[/QUOTE] Full source please? [quote]NEGATIVE nausea, especially in combination with alcohol, some pharmaceuticals, or other psychoactives [B]Don't mix drugs, it goes for all of them.[/B] coughing, asthma, upper respiratory problems [B]Holy shit smoking causes respiratory issues.[/B] difficulty with short-term memory during effects and during periods of frequent use (Ranganathan M, D'Souza DC, Psychopharmacology, 2006) [B]Okay, mental functions impaired while stoned. No shit.[/B] racing heart, agitation, feeling tense [B]Also see: working out, sex, and anything more interesting then watching paint dry in general.[/B] mild to severe anxiety [B]Yes, while stoned, it's a drug, it wouldn't be anything if it didn't affect anything, now would it?[/B] panic attacks in sensitive users or with very high doses (oral use increases risk of getting too much) [B]Anything in wrong quantities is bad for you, no shit.[/B] headaches [B]While stoned, this is point is just dumb.[/B] dizziness, confusion [B]While stoned, this is point is just dumb.[/B] lightheadedness or fainting (in cases of lowered blood pressure) [B]While stoned, this is point is just dumb.[/B] paranoid & anxious thoughts more frequent [B]While stoned, this is point is just dumb.[/B] possible psychological dependence on cannabis [B]Also see: internet, video games, sex, and anything a person enjoys doing.[/B] clumsiness, loss of coordination at high doses [B]While stoned, this is point is just dumb.[/B] can precipitate or exacerbate latent or existing mental disorders [B]This point is semi-valid, if it was legal, we could get some proper studies done on it.[/B] HANGOVER / DAY(S) AFTER dry mouth tired, red, dry, or itchy eyes joint stiffness fatigue, drowsiness, foggy or slow thinking reduced memory skills, slower speed of recall WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS ([B]after stopping heavy use[/B]) [B]Also "Withdraw Symptoms" should actually be grouped with "Hangover / Day(s) after[/B] mild to moderate, non-life-threatening withdrawal symptoms occur after daily use in some users. Withdrawal symptoms normally last [B]2-4 days, up to six weeks with long term use[/B]. Severity of symptoms is related to frequency and duration of use and individual sensitivity. anhedonia (reduced experience of pleasure) [B]No shit.[/B] headaches, general unease/discomfort difficulty sleeping desire to smoke cannabis [B]No shit.[/B] slight loss of appetite [B]Keyword: Slight[/B] finding non-stoned life a bit dull, increased boredom [B]No shit.[/B] fatigue, lethargy [B]This is the same this as the one above.[/B] slow thinking, talking [B]This is the same this as the one above.[/B] stoned-like abstract thinking, impatience with or annoyance at linear thinking [B]God damn different thinking, can't have that now can we?[/B][/quote] All it does is fear-monger and make mountains out of molehills. Bolded responses and keywords of source.

Don't forget, a lot of those respiratory problems could be stopped by consuming cannabis using alternative means.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008294]All it does is fear-monger and make mountains out of molehills. Bolded responses and keywords of source.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml[/url] Source has been referenced by pro-marijuana posters in this thread.

[QUOTE=Cael;21008332][url]http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml[/url] [B]Source has been referenced by pro-marijuana posters in this thread[/B].[/QUOTE] That part is pretty irrelevant. It really proves nothing, I mean, lets say that you convince us all that it is a harmful drug. It should still be legalized, because there is substantial evidence showing that prohibition of something only makes people more likely to do it, and that countries where it's legal, have a lower percentage of users. You have absolutely no point to go on, the only logical conclusion is to legalize it.

Legalizing it can cause problems too, like a higher crime rate.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008381]That part is pretty irrelevant. It really proves nothing, I mean, lets say that you convince us all that it is a harmful drug. It should still be legalized, because there is substantial evidence showing that prohibition of something only makes people more likely to do it, and that countries where it's legal, have a lower percentage of users. You have absolutely no point to go on, the only logical conclusion is to legalize it.[/QUOTE] So this applies to anything prohibited, right? Like homicide, robbery, rape, right? Make 'em legal, and then we'll have a division of people, those who do it who were going to do it anyway, and those who do it because it's illegal. [i]There is no other reason, amirite?[/i]

[QUOTE=squeaky024;21008465]Legalizing it can cause problems too, like a higher crime rate.[/QUOTE] Prohibition creates an illegal industry where there is a lot of money to be made in trading the illegal commodity. See 1920s prohibition, drugs today, and how most gangs make money selling drugs, like pot. I have a friend who got into that shit starting by selling pot. Legalizing would lower the crime rate.

[QUOTE=squeaky024;21008465]Legalizing it can cause problems too, like a higher crime rate.[/QUOTE] See prohibition of alcohol.

[QUOTE=Cael;21008513]So this applies to anything prohibited, [B]right[/B]? Like homicide, robbery, rape, right? Make 'em legal, and then we'll have a division of people, those who do it who were going to do it anyway, and those who do it because it's illegal. [i]There is no other reason, amirite?[/i][/QUOTE] Wrong. Nice try at a straw-man argument though. The most significant difference in the butchering of my point was that those are all things you do to someone else to better yourself. While smoking pot is something you do to yourself, therefor not entrenching on anyone's rights.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008525]Prohibition creates an illegal industry where there is a lot of money to be made in trading the illegal commodity. See 1920s prohibition, drugs today, and how most gangs make money selling drugs, like pot. I have a friend who got into that shit starting by selling pot. Legalizing would lower the crime rate.[/QUOTE] Only because it would stop being a crime. If we made everything legal, there would be [i]0 Crime.[/i]

[QUOTE=Cael;21008548]Only because it would stop being a crime. If we made everything legal, there would be [i]0 Crime.[/i][/QUOTE] Yes because I'm definitely going to go buy from ShadyMcGangsta, when I could go to the 7/11 or grow it myself.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008538]Wrong. Nice try at a straw-man argument though. The most significant difference in the butchering of my point was that those are all things you do to someone else to better yourself. While smoking pot is something you do to yourself, therefor not entrenching on anyone's rights.[/QUOTE] You're implying that less people will perform an act if it's allowed. My point has nothing to do with the morality of an act, simply the idea that making something legal will make less people do it. What about all of the people who wont do it because it's illegal? [editline]03:05AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;21008566]Yes because I'm definitely going to go buy from ShadyMcGangsta, when I could go to the 7/11 or grow it myself.[/QUOTE] You could still grow it yourself now, or buy it from 7/11, if the guy at the store was dealing it. Those are both illegal things, the same as buying from a gang.

[QUOTE=Cael;21008606]You're implying that less people will perform an act if it's allowed. My point has nothing to do with the morality of an act, simply the idea that making something legal will make less people do it. [B]What about all of the people who wont do it because it's illegal?[/B][/QUOTE] Where are you going with this, I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't murder because it's illegal, which personally, scares me. But murder is societally detrimental, smoking pot isn't, so what does it matter if people do it or not?

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008630]Where are you going with this, I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't murder because it's illegal, which personally, scares me. But murder is societally detrimental, smoking pot isn't, so what does it matter if people do it or not?[/QUOTE] But, see, it's your opinion that it isn't detrimental. Second hand smoke is the most obvious side-effect, but pregnancy complications, and accidents related to activity done while under the influence are easily feasible.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008630]Where are you going with this, I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't murder because it's illegal, which personally, scares me. But murder is societally detrimental, smoking pot isn't, so what does it matter if people do it or not?[/QUOTE] Well if someone is high, they probably wont be thinking straight, so they would be more likely to hurt people or property.

[QUOTE=Cael;21008606]You're implying that less people will perform an act if it's allowed. My point has nothing to do with the morality of an act, simply the idea that making something legal will make less people do it. What about all of the people who wont do it because it's illegal? [editline]03:05AM[/editline] [B]You could still grow it yourself now, or buy it from 7/11, if the guy at the store was dealing it. Those are both illegal things, the same as buying from a gang[/B].[/QUOTE] buying from a gang fiances their other fronts, you know, the ones that are actually bad and illegal for good reasons. Growing it yourself, illegal, and I'd be afraid of getting in trouble. It's illegal, and it's illegal for no good reason, and there are benefits from legalizing it, furthermore, there are negatives from keeping illegal. What is your thesis on why pot should be illegal? [editline]03:09AM[/editline] [QUOTE=squeaky024;21008669]Well if someone is high, they probably wont be thinking straight, so they would be more likely to hurt people or property.[/QUOTE] are you 10? Weed doesn't make people violent at all, quite the opposite actually.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008671] are you 10? Weed doesn't make people violent at all, quite the opposite actually.[/QUOTE] Lack of knowledge on a subject does not lower my age, I am 15, thank you very much.

[QUOTE=Cael;21008548]Only because it would stop being a crime. If we made everything legal, there would be [i]0 Crime.[/i][/QUOTE] By crime rate they mean violence you numbskull

[QUOTE=Cael;21008667]But, see, it's your opinion that it isn't detrimental. Second hand smoke is the most obvious side-effect, but pregnancy complications, and accidents related to activity done while under the influence are easily feasible.[/QUOTE] Second-hand smoke, is implying that smoking it directly has serious affects in the first place, which it doesn't. Pregnancy complications, and accidents relating to the activity are fucking common sense. Should we ban texting because you can text while driving and kill yourself/someone? No, but it should be illegal to text while driving. Same fucking thing, do drugs responsibly, it's common fucking sense. [editline]03:12AM[/editline] [QUOTE=squeaky024;21008696]Lack of knowledge on a subject does not lower my age, I am 15, thank you very much.[/QUOTE] If you lack knowledge about a subject then maybe you shouldn't be discussing it, before you gain some knowledge.

[QUOTE=squeaky024;21008669]Well if someone is high, they probably wont be thinking straight, so they would be more likely to hurt people or property.[/QUOTE] :sigh: Ever been high before? No, so just stop right there. When I'm (and pretty much all other stoners I know) high, I'm very calm and laid back; not out murdering people. FFS.

[QUOTE=squeaky024;21008669]Well if someone is high, they probably wont be thinking straight, so they would be more likely to hurt people or property.[/QUOTE] Sure they don't think too straight, lol, I couldn't even unlock my friend's phone when I was high once, but that's a story for another day, but during that time I didn't have the urge to curb stomp him (he was black too!(don't ban me you moderator you! it's an American History X reference))

[QUOTE=Gummylamb;21008761]Sure they don't think too straight, lol, I couldn't even unlock my friend's phone when I was high once, but that's a story for another day, but during that time I didn't have the urge to curb stomp him (he was black too!)[/QUOTE] Nice 1500th post, lol. [editline]02:17AM[/editline] ^^ adds much content to the thread. :v:

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008671]buying from a gang fiances their other fronts, you know, the ones that are actually bad and illegal for good reasons. Growing it yourself, illegal, and I'd be afraid of getting in trouble. It's illegal, and it's illegal for no good reason, and there are benefits from legalizing it, furthermore, there are negatives from keeping illegal. What is your thesis on why pot should be illegal?[/QUOTE] My thesis is that marijuana should stay illegal because of the negative impacts it causes to the mind, the possibility of incidents while under the influence, the damage it could deal to children from their mother during pregnancy, and of the more-than-possible future of recreational marijuana use replacing other more productive uses of time. Call me a fascist, but if I had a genie, my first wish would be to make it impossible to use any substance that wasn't needed for normal body processes or for medical reasons. My second would be a paradox-proof time machine that I could use to avert assassinations... [QUOTE=Kybalt;21008671]are you 10? Weed doesn't make people violent at all, quite the opposite actually.[/QUOTE] Alcohol is a depressant, but people still get violent because of it. [editline]03:21AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;21008716]Second-hand smoke, is implying that smoking it directly has serious affects in the first place, which it doesn't. Pregnancy complications, and accidents relating to the activity are fucking common sense. Should we ban texting because you can text while driving and kill yourself/someone? No, but it should be illegal to text while driving. Same fucking thing, do drugs responsibly, it's common fucking sense.[/QUOTE] Did we just forget the part where use of marijuana causes you to not be in the perfect state of mind? You overestimate us as a species, [i]especially[/i] when we aren't in total control of our bodies. Once again, Alcohol, allowed for consumption, but you can't be under its influence while driving, yet people still drive while completely smashed out of their minds, because they're not saying 'I'm gonna go run naked through the mall! Wait, nevermind, I'd have to drive there.'

[QUOTE=Cael;21008777]My thesis is that[B]1.[/B] marijuana should stay illegal because of the negative impacts it causes to the mind ,[B]2.[/B] the possibility of incidents while under the influence ,[B]3.[/B] the damage it could deal to children from their mother during pregnancy ,[B]4.[/B] and of the more-than-possible future of recreational marijuana use replacing other more productive uses of time. [B]5.[/B]Call me a fascist, but if I had a genie, my first wish would be to make it impossible to use any substance that wasn't needed for normal body processes or for medical reasons. My second would be a paradox-proof time machine that I could use to avert assassinations... [B]6[/B]Alcohol is a depressant, but people still get violent because of it.[/QUOTE] 1. The only one permanent one that I can think of is psychosis, but this comes down to safety and responsibility. 2. Again responsibility, having a friend there with you to stop you from doing stupid shit. 3. More responsibility, it's the parents responsibility to not do something like that. 4. Right, because me playing video games is so much more productive then me playing video games stoned. 5. You are a fascist, very self righteous, you are a prime example of someone who doesn't have an open mind to anything, and will defend something despite opposing arguments. 6. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know weed isn't a depressant, so comparing it to one, is like comparing apples to oranges.

[QUOTE=Cael;21008777]My thesis is that marijuana should stay illegal because of the negative impacts it causes to the mind, the possibility of incidents while under the influence, the damage it could deal to children from their mother during pregnancy, and of the more-than-possible future of recreational marijuana use replacing other more productive uses of time. Call me a fascist, but if I had a genie, my first wish would be to make it impossible to use any substance that wasn't needed for normal body processes or for medical reasons. My second would be a paradox-proof time machine that I could use to avert assassinations... Alcohol is a depressant, but people still get violent because of it. [editline]03:21AM[/editline] Did we just forget the part where use of marijuana causes you to not be in the perfect state of mind? You overestimate us as a species, [i]especially[/i] when we aren't in total control of our bodies. Once again, Alcohol, allowed for consumption, but you can't be under its influence while driving, yet people still drive while completely smashed out of their minds, because they're not saying 'I'm gonna go run naked through the mall! Wait, nevermind, I'd have to drive there.'[/QUOTE] My name is Cael and I don't like having fun

[QUOTE=Cael;21008777] [B]1[/B]Did we just forget the part where use of marijuana causes you to not be in the perfect state of mind? [B]2[/B]You overestimate us as a species, [i]especially[/i] when we aren't in total control of our bodies. [B][/B]Once again, Alcohol, allowed for consumption, but you can't be under its influence while driving, yet people still drive while completely smashed out of their minds, because they're not saying 'I'm gonna go run naked through the mall! Wait, nevermind, I'd have to drive there.'[/QUOTE] 1. You're oversimplifying the human mind. 2. Same as above. You're also comparing weed to alcohol which makes no fucking sense. Whether or not you ban something, people will do it anyway. To fully enforce any ban, you would have to strip everyone of every right and any privacy, and run a totalitarian regime.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008903]1. You're oversimplifying the human mind. 2. Same as above. You're also comparing weed to alcohol which makes no fucking sense. Whether or not you ban something, people will do it anyway. To fully enforce any ban, you would have to strip everyone of every right and any privacy, and run a totalitarian regime.[/QUOTE] he'd probably like that because he doesn't like fun that means no sports no love, since you don't need that to live [editline]11:34PM[/editline] yes love is a substance leave me alone

[QUOTE=Gummylamb;21008919]he'd probably like that because he doesn't like fun that means no sports no love, since you don't need that to live[/QUOTE] you have a point, both of those effect the human mind and take out of a perfect mental state and people have been killed in sports, and killed over love, so lets ban them. :australia:

[QUOTE=Kybalt;21008864]1. The only one permanent one that I can think of is psychosis, but this comes down to safety and responsibility. 2. Again responsibility, having a friend there with you to stop you from doing stupid shit. 3. More responsibility, it's the parents responsibility to not do something like that. [/QUOTE] You still seem to be ignoring the idea that substance use tends to be one of those things that screws with your judgment calls. [QUOTE=Kybalt;21008864]4. You are a fascist, very self righteous, you are a prime example of someone who doesn't have an open mind to anything, and will defend something despite opposing arguments.[/QUOTE] I like how, before, when someone had high morals, they were considered upstanding, or (In the middle ages or so) Chivalric. Now you're a narc, a square, a dork, or a fascist. You may think I don't have an open mind, but I have friends of every color, creed, and sexual orientation, and I don't judge a person because they smoke marijuana; I think the problem is the act, not the performance. Oh, and I defend something despite opposing arguments? Are you not doing the exact same thing? I could throw hundreds of articles about the 'dangers of marijuana', and you would most likely dismiss them all as ignorant or biased or both. At any rate, isn't defending your position what a debate is? Isn't a debate exactly what we're having? [QUOTE=Kybalt;21008864]5. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know weed isn't a depressant, so comparing it to one, is like comparing apples to oranges.[/QUOTE] Erowid classifies it as a depressant, but that's beside the point, which is that Alcohol isn't supposed to make you violent, yet it does. [editline]03:38AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Gummylamb;21008880]My name is Cael and I don't like having fun[/QUOTE] My name is Cael, and I don't need a plant to have fun.