BREAKING NEWS: Large Scale Terrorist Attack in France -- Multiple Explosions, Gunfire! Death toll at
1,725 replies, posted
In response to the many people advocating this idea:
I think closing the borders is, at best, only a short-term mitigation. It won't solve things even in the short term, and will do a lot more damage in the long run.
Terrorism is not genetic. You aren't born a terrorist. Terrorism is but a means toward a goal. Any cause that's worth supporting will almost inevitably attract people who will use random violence to support it. We have terrorist attacks against clinics and biology labs in this country, from fundamentalist Christian groups and animal-rights groups. There have been terrorist attacks on churches from atheists and racists and other religions. Almost every long-running struggle for independence has resorted to terrorism - remember the IRA? Muslim Arabs don't have a monopoly on terrorism.
Isolating Europe from the rest of the world doesn't keep terrorists out. It only keeps out the ones that aren't already there. Remember Breivik, the Norway shootings and bombings? Exact same methodology as being used here, exactly the same motivations (fear "his" culture was being destroyed by others), just swap around the names a bit in their manifestos.
And what about those who would have committed terrorism? Even if you could somehow magically keep them all out of Europe (and closing the borders to that level is a much more difficult task than many seem to appreciate, bordering on impossible, for reasons that are obvious if you actually think about them), they're still out there, still devoted to their cause and willing to employ whatever means necessary to make the world fit their twisted vision. They're still going to inflict pain and suffering - just on their own people, not Europe or America. The same people you callously would wall away from safety.
Some will say "who cares about them?". I do. I don't care if your American or French or German or British or Russian or Chinese or Turkish or Syrian or Afghani, you're still human, and you shouldn't be left to suffer under the heels of tyrants just because you had the misfortune to be born on that patch of dirt instead of this one. If it is sad that scores of people are dead from a terrorist attack in Paris, it would be just as sad if scores of people died in a terrorist attack in Damascus.
And if you want a selfish reason to care about what terrorists do to other countries, look at al-Quaeda about... fourteen years, two months, and two days ago. They [I]will[/I] attack eventually - you can be separated by half the world, and they'll find a way to strike. The only reason they need is that you're different from them (which, ironically, is the instinctive motivation behind the close-the-borders knee-jerk reaction).
Closing the borders - isolating Europe from the terrorist menace - is not an answer. It just feels like one. It feels like it should be the easy answer - just don't let them in, we'll be safe. Well, unfortunately there are no easy answers to this problem. If there were easy answers, don't you think they'd have been done by now?
But I do think there are answers. The first big step needs to be this: We need to stop terrorism before people even decide to become terrorists - by giving them better means. Random violence is the resort of the desperate - so let's keep people from being desperate. Topple dictators and replace them with democracies - [I]real[/I] democracies, where the people have an actual say. Develop the undeveloped third world - ISIS and al-Quaeda and the like thrive on poor, unemployed recruits who join simply to have a roof over their heads, a meal in their bellies, and a sense of family, so helping the third-world economies will [I]devastate[/I] their recruiting efforts. Educate them, so they learn to think for themselves well enough to not fall for the extremist's lies and rhetoric. This won't stop all of them - again, look at Breivik, he certainly wasn't poor and starving - but it means we'll be dealing with one or two crazed nutjobs, not dozens of organized actors. I'd say that's a good first step.
No, it will not be easy. It will not be fast. It will not be cheap. It will not even be completely effective. But if you want to actually fight terrorism, instead of just ignore it, this is what needs to be done.
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;49112177]people blaming muslims, people blaming the police
why do tragedies like this always bring out the inner retard in people?[/QUOTE]
Those kind of retards will appear in any situation, what worries me is the amount of "piggybacking" that's about to unleash from several EU anti-terrorist forces, maybe even US.
Piggybacking a tragedy like this, and retargeting the "correct" targets, by all means?!
That's trully retarded, if you ask me.
Any word on who and why could have done it? Some facts and not opinions (please stop with blind islamists blaming unless there's some official info on that).
From facebook:
[quote]"UPDATE 2: The wife of Eagles Of Death Metal drummer Julian Dorio has told The Washington Post that the band members are safe.
“We are just holding our breath and saying prayers for everyone,” she says.
“He called to say that he loved me and he was safe. Everyone on stage was able to get off.”
French president François Hollande has declared a state of emergency and closed the country’s borders."[/quote]
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;49112177]people blaming muslims, people blaming the police
why do tragedies like this always bring out the inner retard in people?[/QUOTE]
because tragedies like this make people extremely angry and people who are really angry don't think rationally sometimes? i don't blame them to be honest. there needs to be some type of action taken, not saying i agree with them but yeah.
People are being cleared off the streets around the attack sites, more police have arrived.
1,500 French soldiers are on the streets of Paris right now to keep the peace, according to The Telegraph and multiple other news sources.
Reports on BBC, hostages were shot one by one then a grenade was thrown at them just before the police entered.
[QUOTE=soullink;49112099]i was supposed to be there but had to refund my ticket this afternoon and i don't even have a word to describe how i feel right now[/QUOTE]
this is almost enough to bring a tear to my eye
This breaks my fucking heart man.
[QUOTE=D3vils Buddy;49112223]Reports on BBC, hostages were shot one by one then a grenade was thrown at them just before the police entered.[/QUOTE]
i legit don't have words, i don't know what to say
[QUOTE=D3vils Buddy;49112223]Reports on BBC, hostages were shot one by one then a grenade was thrown at them just before the police entered.[/QUOTE]
Fucking disgusting.
[QUOTE=D3vils Buddy;49112223]Reports on BBC, hostages were shot one by one then a [B]grenade was thrown at them[/B] just before the police entered.[/QUOTE]
fucking hell
[QUOTE=_Axel;49111803]That's just as stupid a statement as the one you're criticizing.[/QUOTE]
Rather than species, I would've used the term "civilization" personally. We've walked on the god-damned Moon, for fuck's sake. We're [I]better[/I] than that!
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;49112232]Rather than species, I would've used the term "civilization" personally. We've walked on the god-damned Moon, for fuck's sake. We're [I]better[/I] than that![/QUOTE]
evidently not
well... being a muslim in france is about to get a lot harder.
[QUOTE=D3vils Buddy;49112223]Reports on BBC, hostages were shot one by one then a grenade was thrown at them just before the police entered.[/QUOTE]
i seriously dunno anymore man wtf can i do
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;49112232]Rather than species, I would've used the term "civilization" personally. We've walked on the god-damned Moon, for fuck's sake. We're [I]better[/I] than that![/QUOTE]
No we aren't. Our ideas are better, but we are the same.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;49112232]Rather than species, I would've used the term "civilization" personally. We've walked on the god-damned Moon, for fuck's sake. We're [I]better[/I] than that![/QUOTE]
Civilization shouldn't cease to exist either? I don't see your point.
Julie Bishop - Australian minister for foreign affairs:
- No Australians have been harmed in these attacks
- Australians are advised to not leave where they are until given word from the French President/Govt.
I missed this entirely while I was at work, is there a good recap somewhere? Most articles seem to be from varying times during the events.
Also hope that all the Parisian FPers and their families are safe.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;49112147]Jeb Bush opens his stupid mouth:
[url]http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jeb-bush-paris-attacks-war[/url][/QUOTE]
All those statements are accurate, though. Desert Storm was quick and effective. It just doesn't really relate in today's environment because we left the local governments intact.
What the fuck. I only heard about this now via my father.
[QUOTE=sa2fan;49112126]if it involves many people, vous êtes mes amis would be correct, when it's one guy tu es mon ami is correct[/QUOTE]
I'm glad I know this, but I'll leave the french to the francophones for now. I'd hoped dearly that the rumors that people inside the Bataclan were being massacred we're false and hearing the confirmation has left me more shaken than I expected.
I hope the international community can come together for a short while at least.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;49112238]i seriously dunno anymore man wtf can i do[/QUOTE]
Honestly nothing.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;49112246]I missed this entirely while I was at work, is there a good recap somewhere? Most articles seem to be from varying times during the events. [/QUOTE]
Multiple shootings took place throughout France, explosions occurred and dozens of hostages were reportedly executed. Death toll is believed to be 140+
Wait for tomorrow to get better details.
[QUOTE=Combine 177;49112259]Honestly nothing.[/QUOTE]
no shit but i just wanna fucking cry or something
Holy fuck this is going to be the French 9/11
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