BREAKING NEWS: Large Scale Terrorist Attack in France -- Multiple Explosions, Gunfire! Death toll at - Polidicks

[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;49113093]When a section of culture turns radical to the point of harming innocent people, that's when that ideology crosses the line. But that's my opinion. I also believe it's acceptable to dislike, hate, and ignore certain parts of religion and culture (as is commonly seen in Christianity), but to hate an innocent people who follow a moderate religion is an entirely different story.[/QUOTE] I might have missed something before entering the thread but I think we've been mostly critical of Islam itself up to this point [QUOTE=ultra_bright;49113110]Literally everyone in my family said this is what would happen when you open the floodgates and let millions of refugees in, the terrorists get in as well.[/QUOTE] Gating any culture, race or religious affiliation from entering a country will never happen in any western first-world nation

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;49113102]Why are we talking about the hypotheticals when we should be talking about the reality of the situation. The fact France has been subject to two major terrorist attacks by religiously-motivated individuals in less than a year is something we simply cannot sweep under the rug anymore, not with the potential for more of these attacks to occur in pretty much every part of Europe now that the migrations are hitting full-swing.[/QUOTE] Radical Islam is a threat that I can definitely see being tackled in the very near future. However, it's near impossible to kill an ideology, unfortunately. This problem has been around for decades now. [editline]Edited: [/editline] [QUOTE=Duck M.;49113114]I might have missed something before entering the thread but I think we've been mostly critical of Islam itself up to this point[/QUOTE] Which is what I've been arguing against. If you want to hate something, then hate Radical Islam, the section of Islam that actually is doing this. Also I've been arguing against people who flat out claim Muslims (the people following Islam) should be barred from the West because they are "incompatible."

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;49112954]Anyone wanna point out that these were coordinated with terrorist bombings in Lebanon and Iraq? Or do we just not care about those innocent civilians because they're not white.[/QUOTE] Are you fucking serious? You're seriously going to try and pull this shit NOW of all times?

[QUOTE=ultra_bright;49113081]France is going to war. [url]https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/665348285620723712[/url][/QUOTE] this won't end well

Sorry if late, but apparently ISIS claimed it was their doing, saying this is vendetta for Syria.

[QUOTE=ultra_bright;49113081]France is going to war. [URL]https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/665348285620723712[/URL][/QUOTE] Welp. Deus Vult, I guess. Either way, this a horrible tragedy, and I sincerely hope that this gets the EU to start introducing strict border policies and more rigid screening on immigrants, as well as possibly dealing with domestic training camps and recruitment groups for terrorist groups.

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;49113127]Sorry if late, but apparently ISIS claimed it was their doing, saying this is vendetta for Syria.[/QUOTE] Regardless of whether they did it or not ISIS will probably claim credit for every major terrorist attack in the foreseeable future

[QUOTE=AaronM202;49113123]Are you fucking serious? You're seriously going to try and pull this shit NOW of all times?[/QUOTE] Attacking innocent civilians is a horrible thing to do. I just find it noteworthy and sad that so many people are willing to overlook a large portion of the victims of today's attacks because they want to push their xenophobic agenda.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49113082]And if the roles were reversed I would be happily criticizing Christianity for the exact same reasons I criticize Islam.[/QUOTE] What do you suggest we do? Abolish the tenets of Islam that allow for radicalization? I'm not being argumentative we can criticize it all day we need solutions though. Hindsight is 20/20, but as someone else said earlier in the thread, the U.S. could've had a hand in diffusing the situation by equal parts hunting down Bin Laden/WMD and truly attempting to be on good terms with the Middle East. Again though, hindsight.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;49113137]Attacking innocent civilians is a horrible thing to do. I just find it noteworthy and sad that so many people are willing to overlook a large portion of the victims of today's attacks because they want to push their xenophobic agenda.[/QUOTE] What the [b]Fuck.[/b] Are you blind to context? Do you not understand the difference between Lebanon and Iraq, and France? No, seriously, whats wrong with you.

this is not fucking good

[QUOTE=Duck M.;49113091]The worst part is that both doing nothing and retaliating are both gonna just make it worse, thanks extremism[/QUOTE] Gonna repeat in brief something I said earlier in depth: You want to hurt Islamic terrorism? Turn the Third World into the First World. Build up the Middle-East's economy - the actual economy, not the "we're selling off all our oil as fast as we can pump it out, everything's free but unemployment is like 80%" they currently have in parts. Give people jobs, that pay enough money for a house, and food, and clothes, and to start a family. This cuts off the supply of recruits with nothing left to lose. Topple the dictatorships, and build up real democracies - I'm talking "America should learn some things from" democracies. This gives their social problems a way to relieve themselves peacefully. Educate the people. This makes them smarter and harder to manipulate. Expose them to a variety of cultures, so they see foreigners as people and not animals. You won't need to erase their culture - they'll erase the parts they see are wrong, and keep the parts that are fine. And probably spread those parts on to us, because it is exceedingly improbable that they don't have some good ideas.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;49113137]Attacking innocent civilians is a horrible thing to do. [B]I just find it noteworthy and sad that so many people are willing to overlook a large portion of the victims of today's attacks because they want to push their xenophobic agenda.[/B][/QUOTE] Are you fucking serious? Over a hundred people were killed in Paris today and you're trying to play the moral superior by pointing out other people were killed in other parts of the world too? Yeah, tell those French users who they should feel sorry for, Mr. American.

[QUOTE=Warriorx4;49113139]What do you suggest we do? Abolish the tenets of Islam that allow for radicalization? I'm not being argumentative we can criticize it all day we need solutions though. Hindsight is 20/20, but as someone else said earlier in the thread, the U.S. could've had a hand in diffusing the situation by equal parts hunting down Bin Laden/WMD and truly attempting to be on good terms with the Middle East. Again though, hindsight.[/QUOTE] Welcome to the problem every modernized country has been facing for the past few decades now. You can't really kill an ideology, which is why a solution has yet to be found.

I hear all the time that Islamic State isn't real Muslims and they are insulting the real one. So why do all these "refugees" do not fight back? Why don't Saudi Arabia fight IS? As soon as someone makes a joke about Muhammad or draws him, he becomes a target (rip) because he is insulting Islam, yet while there is a REAL insult (killing kids, raping and etc in the name of Muhammad or Islam)... it's okay not to do anything.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;49113152]Gonna repeat in brief something I said earlier in depth: [/QUOTE] But how man? The U.S. has enough of its own problems to deal with.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;49113152] Topple the dictatorships, and build up real democracies - I'm talking "America should learn some things from" democracies. This gives their social problems a way to relieve themselves peacefully. [/QUOTE] God no, it was toppling dictators that caused this in the first place. The dictators where the only people keep these nutters at bay. Islam just doesn't work with democracy.

Is most terrorist action attributable to Islam because Islamic countries are bad places to live with a number of them in eternal conflict, or is it just because the religion tells them to do these things? These are the questions we must ask.

[QUOTE=Nicolas;49113159]I hear all the time that Islamic State isn't real Muslims and they are insulting the real one. So why do all these "refugees" do not fight back? Why don't Saudi Arabia fight IS? As soon as someone makes a joke about Muhammad or draws him, he becomes a target (rip) because he is insulting Islam, yet while there is a REAL insult (killing kids, raping and etc in the name of Muhammad or Islam)... it's okay not to do anything.[/QUOTE] Probably because they are a part of the population who don't believe in fighting fire with fire. Nor do they have the capability to take on a terrorist organization like the IS.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;49113137]Attacking innocent civilians is a horrible thing to do. I just find it noteworthy and sad that so many people are willing to overlook a large portion of the victims of today's attacks because they want to push their xenophobic agenda.[/QUOTE] You're literally using this to push your agenda right now lmao

[QUOTE=Warriorx4;49113139]What do you suggest we do? Abolish the tenets of Islam that allow for radicalization? I'm not being argumentative we can criticize it all day we need solutions though. Hindsight is 20/20, but as someone else said earlier in the thread, the U.S. could've had a hand in diffusing the situation by equal parts hunting down Bin Laden/WMD and truly attempting to be on good terms with the Middle East. Again though, hindsight.[/QUOTE] I am completely at a loss when it comes to solving the problem. Unfortunately, the world is really fucking unfair, and sometimes problems can't be solved. That doesn't mean they don't exist. If people believe with religious fervor that they're right and that death doesn't matter because they go to heaven and that the will of their god is that they bomb cafes and execute concert attendees then you can't fucking do anything to stop them short of killing them. And we can't feasibly kill them all so I guess there just isn't anything we can do.

This is over. Now for the aftermath...

Let's just agree to ignore asteroidrules and talk about what might happen in the future because of this, where do you think we stand in the UK? For some reason France is leaving the Eurostar tunnel open all weekend (despite the borders being closed)!

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;49113165]God no, it was toppling dictators that caused this in the first place. The dictators where the only people keep these nutters at bay. Islam just doesn't work with democracy.[/QUOTE] Maybe because when we toppled dictators we replaced them with our own instead of attempting to build organic democracies.

[QUOTE=Cypher_09;49113174]Let's just agree to ignore asteroidrules and talk about what might happen in the future because of this, where do you think we stand in the UK? For some reason France is leaving the Eurostar tunnel open all weekend (despite the borders being closed)![/QUOTE] The fools.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49113170]I am completely at a loss when it comes to solving the problem. Unfortunately, the world is really fucking unfair, and sometimes problems can't be solved. That doesn't mean they don't exist. If people believe with religious fervor that they're right and that death doesn't matter because they go to heaven and that the will of their god is that they bomb cafes and execute concert attendees then you can't fucking do anything to stop them short of killing them. And we can't feasibly kill them all so I guess there just isn't anything we can do.[/QUOTE] gman's solution is likely the most viable and the one I agree with the most. Unfortunately it becomes nigh-impossible when you have these radicals impede this kind of progress and prevent any form of democratization. Also minus the fact that there's a lot of disputes over the type of government to be in power in the Middle East right now.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Tibbles;49113184]The fools.[/QUOTE] Friends of mine are coming up north for the weekend I really hope they reconsider that worrying decision soon before it's too late.

[QUOTE=Warriorx4;49113183]Maybe because when we toppled dictators we replaced them with our own instead of attempting to build organic democracies.[/QUOTE] How are you supposed to build an organic democracy in a place full of nutty radicals? Democracy requires stability, something the middle east doesn't have any more.

[QUOTE=Antlerp;49113166]Is most terrorist action attributable to Islam because Islamic countries are bad places to live with a number of them in eternal conflict, or is it just because the religion tells them to do these things? These are the questions we must ask.[/QUOTE] Perhaps it's both. And maybe one is the cause of the other.

[QUOTE=Antlerp;49113166]Is most terrorist action attributable to Islam because Islamic countries are bad places to live with a number of them in eternal conflict, or is it just because the religion tells them to do these things? These are the questions we must ask.[/QUOTE] You really need to consider culture as much, if not more, than religion, since it's culture that gives power to the religion and allows it as much or as little leeway in interpretation as they want. I mean shit, you got migrants going to clubs in Germany and being huge creeps because they think Western women are easy whores. This isn't something religion teaches you, it's culture.