I wish for once that everyone could just shut the hell up and just get along, the world would be a much better place if everyone stopped yelling/shooting at each other over pointless things all the god damn time and actually did something productive instead.
Ah, they are all just angry cause they have sand down their pants.
they are saying we are offending and making fun of them while their own holy book throws shit at everyone who isn't a muslim. great logic.
[QUOTE=KlaseR;37843131]they are saying we are offending and making fun of them while their own holy book throws shit at everyone who isn't a muslim. great logic.[/QUOTE]
BUT THEY DON'T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS LIKE WE DO TO THEM~ oh wait, right, they do and we dont.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37842517]no the problem is economics.
we in the west enjoy our privileges only because of our economic supremacy. look at the middle eastern states that have democracy and a high GDP and you'll find them far more stable and socially liberal than their relatives.
i think we tend to forget that a lot of middle eastern nations are not stable and constantly switch governments. it becomes impossible to sustain an economy; that's also why so many Islamist groups become popular, they provide welfare and a political voice to people who have neither.[/QUOTE]
Then everybody in Saudi Arabia should be happy as clams right?
[QUOTE=gudman;37843351]BUT THEY DON'T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS LIKE WE DO TO THEM~ oh wait, right, they do and we dont.[/QUOTE]
Who are 'they'? and who are 'we'?
[QUOTE=KlaseR;37843131]they are saying we are offending and making fun of them while their own holy book throws shit at everyone who isn't a muslim. great logic.[/QUOTE]Like how Judaism does the same thing, or how Christianity does the same thing? Here's a tip: They all fucking do it.
[quote]They fear a more austere version of Islam could hijack the protest movements. Most Western speakers at the United Nation defended freedom of speech, but shied away from calls by Muslim leaders for an international ban on blasphemy.[/quote]
eh it's not much to worry about, this kind of shit gets proposed and rejected all the time in the UN
also I'm cool with banning hate speech as long as they ban the bible and the qu'ran as well :v:
[QUOTE=gudman;37843351]BUT THEY DON'T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS LIKE WE DO TO THEM~ oh wait, right, they do and we dont.[/QUOTE]Err, yeah, Christianity/Judaism are terrible about doing that. Similarly, the U.S. and Western culture does everything it can to try and influence and change their culture and force them to conform to our ideals.
[editline]29th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=KlaseR;37843131]they are saying we are offending and making fun of them while their own holy book throws shit at everyone who isn't a muslim. great logic.[/QUOTE]And also, Islam is a pretty damn accepting religion. Hell, in the past it has been more accepting of Judaism and Christianity than Christianity has been of Judaism and some sects of Christianity.
Intolerance for other beliefs is the main issue with all religions. It's about as primeval and outdated as racism, yet gets away with it due to having more believers.
I really think it's scary that this kind of hostility-over-nothing still exists in the 21st Century.
[i]Edited to provide a more balanced argument[/i]
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;37843473]Islam is the worst religion, seriously.[/QUOTE]
I really don't know how you can make judgements like that when the islamic east was once upon a time [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age]the hub of learning for the entire world[/url]
[quote]The Abbasids were influenced by the Qur'anic injunctions and hadith such as "the ink of a scholar is more holy than the blood of a martyr" stressing the value of knowledge.[/quote]
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;37843473]Islam is the worst religion, seriously.
Intolerance is the main issue. It's like they're literally as bad as racists on the intolerance chart.
Literally the only Christian extremists are those idiots who are always on TV about 'God hates X'.. but I think you could probably find hundreds (if not thousands) of Muslims who take their religion about that seriously in pretty much any City in the world.
I know Muslims who don't even take their religion that seriously but they still take huge offence at anyone who disagrees with them, to the point where they tense up and violence is audibly carried in their words.
I really think it's scary that this kind of hostility-over-nothing still exists in the 21st Century.[/QUOTE]Wow, can you be anymore uninformed and ignorant? Please, I'd actually be surprised to see it. Like I just said, Islam actually has a history of being a very accepting religion and the Muslim world has historically been an open one. The problems we have now are the result of people who follow assholes like Mohammed Al Wahab taking advantage of the political and social turmoil in the early half of the 1900s to spread what was a dying sect of Islam and make it massive. It would be like if the U.S. were to be devastated by a war and the Westboro Baptist Church came in afterwards and said "Guys, we told you this would happen! This is all because of the faggots! Kill them all!"
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37843524]Wow, can you be anymore uninformed and ignorant? Please, I'd actually be surprised to see it. Like I just said, Islam actually has a history of being a very accepting religion and the Muslim world has historically been an open one. The problems we have now are the result of people who follow assholes like Mohammed Al Wahab taking advantage of the political and social turmoil in the early half of the 1900s to spread what was a dying sect of Islam and make it massive. It would be like if the U.S. were to be devastated by a war and the Westboro Baptist Church came in afterwards and said "Guys, we told you this would happen! This is all because of the faggots! Kill them all!"[/QUOTE]
Balanced my argument.
That's just how easy believers-in-something are to exploit.. If a major branch of Christianity started some kind of insurgent uprising, whilst 75% of believers might say 'hey this is wrong' there would still a good portion of devout followers who would go along with it.. and that's never a good thing.
Even self-help like Dianetics can turn into a cult very quickly when people see that something they believe is reinforced as being 'truth'.
It's like Animal Farm/ Lord of the Flies just on a larger scale.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;37843512]I really don't know how you can make judgements like that when the islamic east was once upon a time [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age]the hub of learning for the entire world[/url][/QUOTE]
Don't forget the part where it was explicitly enforced that a good muslim would defend any other religion that came under attack in their empire and it was seen as their duty to protect minorities at least in the Ottoman empire.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Judaism_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#Civil_status[/url]
[QUOTE=Turnips5;37843512]I really don't know how you can make judgements like that when the islamic east was once upon a time [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age]the hub of learning for the entire world[/url]
The Abbasids were influenced by the Qur'anic injunctions and hadith such as "the ink of a scholar is more holy than the blood of a martyr" stressing the value of knowledge.
[/QUOTE]
It says on literally the first page in the Bible that Knowledge is the root of all sin.
Can we please just all go into space on a big ship already and not let any religions come with us?
They can have their own planet and be all happy on their own whilst I'm sat on another with a nice glass of zero gravity whiskey and no oxygen.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;37843561]Balanced my argument.
That's just how easy [b]believers-in-something[/b] are to exploit.. [/QUOTE]
People who are hopeless in general are exploitable.
You like to think, "Nah, I'd never fall for something like that," but that's because you have never been truly hopeless. I'm pretty sure if you had everything stripped from you, had to live under a bridge cold and hungry with no signs of things ever getting better, just like everyone else you'd be willing to follow anyone who promises you a better future. A guy could come up to you and say, "The jews did this to you, look at this 'proof,' let's kill all the jews," and it would be a reasonable proposition to you.
Religion is one way to exploit people but it is not the only way, nor is it required for a person to be religious before they can be exploited.
[QUOTE=Shovelpass;37843711]People who are hopeless in general are exploitable.
You like to think, "Nah, I'd never fall for something like that," but that's because you have never been truly hopeless. I'm pretty sure if you had everything stripped from you, had to live under a bridge cold and hungry with no signs of things ever getting better, just like everyone else you'd be willing to follow anyone who promises you a better future. A guy could come up to you and say, "The jews did this to you, look at this 'proof,' let's kill all the jews," and it would be a reasonable proposition to you.
Religion is one way to exploit people but it is not the only way, nor is it required for a person to be religious before they can be exploited.[/QUOTE]
I've authored more dark places in my lifetime than Garth Marenghi, during my spiritual adventures.
I get what you're saying though.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37843442]Err, yeah, Christianity/Judaism are terrible about doing that. Similarly, the U.S. and Western culture does everything it can to try and influence and change their culture and force them to conform to our ideals.
[/QUOTE]
I meant insults. These Islamists are on the streets of Europe being annoying dicks they are about gays, women, alcohol and so on, while they're (in their countries) getting offended (!) by something that was filmed very far away from their contries and wasn't forced on them. That's what I meant.
I wonder when they will stop living like it was 2000 years ago
We have laws against slander and libel. You can't use free speech to incite riots or other violence.
So Muslims have a point that limitations on speech are not some crazy idea, it's something we do all the time. The only question is should such type of limitations be extended to slandering a religion.
I'm guessing that since the US is predominantly white Christian that Muslims have an impossible task expecting any cooperation here.
[QUOTE=Fear_Fox;37841737]I don't get why they would care so much. I mean, if I draw a stupid picture of their prophet then it's [I]I[/I] who will go to hell and not them (according to the religion). Why should they care if I go to hell?[/QUOTE]
If they kill you or any other blasphemer then they get a seat reserved in jannat with 72 raisins. That's how it works.
[QUOTE=areolop;37840353]
"Egypt respects freedom of expression, freedom of expression that is not used to incite hatred against anyone," he said. "We expect from others, as they expect from us, that they respect our cultural specifics and religious references, and not impose concepts or cultures that are unacceptable to us."
They fear a more austere version of Islam could hijack the protest movements. Most Western speakers at the United Nation defended freedom of speech, but shied away from calls by Muslim leaders for an international ban on blasphemy.[/QUOTE]
YOU CAN ONLY SPEAK FREELY IF YOU ARE NICE TO US :C
If I believed in a deity that was so unimaginably powerful so as to create literally everything in the known universe, from the mechanics of the smallest atom to the laws of physics that bind galaxies together, I certainly wouldn't be bothered by some idiot making a video insulting my faith.
How weak then must the conviction of these Muslim leaders be, to cry to the UN, an ostensibly secular institution made by mere men, to get other countries to change their laws on free speech?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;37844416]If I believed in a deity that was so unimaginably powerful so as to create literally everything in the known universe, from the mechanics of the smallest atom to the laws of physics that bind galaxies together, I certainly wouldn't be bothered by some idiot making a video insulting my faith.
How weak then must the conviction of these Muslim leaders be, to cry to the UN, an ostensibly secular institution made by mere men, to get other countries to change their laws on free speech?[/QUOTE]
Huh, do you still, to this day, after all "outrage" instances, believe that they actually have any faith? Because they don't they merely using religion as an excuse to make Europe and US bend over. They want everyone to accept that Islamist (I wouldn't call them Muslim) leaders have all the rights in the world to tell anyone what to do and what not to do.
The only ones that have any kind of faith in all this mess - are pawns (who do all the dirty work) who have no particular understanding of Islam. They just believe what they're told by their spiritual leaders. Mullah says: "Allah requires you to protect his beloved Prophet from blasphemy!" - that's as far away from actual Islam as possible, and yet the most devoted fanatics go and wreck shit.
I agree, Muslim nations, people should be allowed to talk except when they say something I don't like.
[QUOTE=The golden;37845043]And if they say something we don't like we can kill them![/QUOTE]
More like, we can kill more of our own people then them, just for the heck of it!
Strange stuff, we Russians have a saying "Бей своих, чтобы чужие боялись" - "Hit your own people to scare others off". I might do a study if it was borrowed from Middle Eastern Islamists.
Christians/Catholics stopped freaking out if you insulting their god a long time ago, why can't the Muslims/Islamics join them?
[QUOTE=Cureless;37845685]Christians/Catholics stopped freaking out if you insulting their god a long time ago, why can't the Muslims/Islamics join them?[/QUOTE]
Christians in America still get mighty upset if you insult their religion. Not Christian's as a group, but the far right fundamentalists.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;37845721]Christians in America still get mighty upset if you insult their religion. Not Christian's as a group, but the far right fundamentalists.[/QUOTE]
I agree, but they don't go parading down the streets saying it [b]must[/b] be criminalized to do so and they don't kill innocent people to get that point across.
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