Cloning? Who Cares? - Polidicks

[QUOTE=faze;19282486]Create what? Earth or the Universe?[/QUOTE] Obv the universe. :downs:

[quote]fool (fl) n. [B]1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.[/B] [B]2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion: I was a fool to have quit my job.[/B] [B]3. One who has been tricked or made to appear ridiculous; a dupe: They made a fool of me by pretending I had won.[/B] 4. Informal A person with a talent or enthusiasm for a certain activity: a dancing fool; a fool for skiing. 5. A member of a royal or noble household who provided entertainment, as with jokes or antics; a jester. 6. One who subverts convention or orthodoxy or varies from social conformity in order to reveal spiritual or moral truth: a holy fool. 7. A dessert made of stewed or puréed fruit mixed with cream or custard and served cold. 8. Archaic A mentally deficient person; an idiot.[/quote] Yep, believing in a god does make you a fool.

I think God is a silly person for creating earth. It's a very silly place.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19282450]How do you tell when your faith has gone too far? And believing in god certainly is illogical.[/QUOTE] It may be illogical, but there's no line as to where your faith goes too far. I'd say that when your faith impacts your thinking is when it's a problem. The bible thumpers and extremists obviously take it too far, but what about the people that just go to church every sunday? There's nothing wrong with them.

[QUOTE=faze;19282486]Create what? Earth or the Universe?[/QUOTE] Whichever. As I recall, god created the heavens and the earth. The heavens being the universe, no?

Anyway, back on topic, Cloning could be used as a way of research (Instead of using test subjects, and could be used when drug testing. Maybe even military personnel could be replaced by them.

[QUOTE=faze;19282486]Create what? Earth or the Universe?[/QUOTE] Lol have you even rad Genesis the universe hasn't always existed according to it. Also, the bible ignores the fundamental properties of matter IE matter can't be created or destroyed, something that we've proven.

[QUOTE=goblineat4;19282503]WTH happened to your original post? :ninja:[/QUOTE] I ninja'd it away. I can put it back up if you want.

[QUOTE=Cheesemonkey;19282527]It may be illogical, but there's no line as to where your faith goes too far. I'd say that when your faith impacts your thinking is when it's a problem. The bible thumpers and extremists obviously take it too far, but what about the people that just go to church every sunday? There's nothing wrong with them.[/QUOTE] Yes there is, Faith is a ridiculous, irrelevant concept. It refutes evidence, and is based not on rational judgement based on available information but an assumption.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19282537]Whichever. As I recall, god created the heavens and the earth. The heavens being the universe, no?[/QUOTE] Another question that can't just be "answered." Another article: [url]http://www.theomegareport.com/articles/duncan_conner_0802.shtml[/url]

[QUOTE=Yuskolov123;19282540]Anyway, back on topic, Cloning could be used as a way of research (Instead of using test subjects, and could be used when drug testing. Maybe even military personnel could be replaced by them.[/QUOTE] Firstly, the use of cloned humans in testing would be immoral unless they were brain-dead or something. Secondly, millitary cloning is a bad idea. It's better to use machines in combat anyway.

[QUOTE=Cheesemonkey;19282527]It may be illogical, but there's no line as to where your faith goes too far. I'd say that when your faith impacts your thinking is when it's a problem. The bible thumpers and extremists obviously take it too far,[B] but what about the people that just go to church every sunday? There's nothing wrong with them.[/B][/QUOTE] What a waste of Sunday. I could argue that going to church impacts your thinking. What about when parents make their kids go to church, is that going too far? You can't tell when your faith impacts your thinking or goes too far. Only someone else can tell you that, based on society, and event that wouldn't be completely accurate as they would be basing it off their own experiences. All in all it's relative, but faith is still a broken and useless concept. (you can't tell when it goes too far because you believe it, does a terrorist think he's going too far with blowing himself up? no, but we think he does.)

[QUOTE=faze;19282563]Another question that can't just be "answered." Another article: [url]http://www.theomegareport.com/articles/duncan_conner_0802.shtml[/url][/QUOTE] That article says "Why". You said that god didn't create the universe, but the Bible contradicts you. [editline]04:32PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;19282615]I could argue that going to church impacts your thinking. What about when parents make their kids go to church, is that going too far?[/QUOTE] I'm trying to tell my parents that I'm an atheist. I decided to wait till after Christmas because I don't want to hurt them during the holiday :(

[QUOTE=faze;19282563]Another question that can't just be "answered." Another article: [url]http://www.theomegareport.com/articles/duncan_conner_0802.shtml[/url][/QUOTE] tehehee... [quote]a modern, Western, and [B]quit immature[/B] viewpoint I might add)[/quote] Having read it, it doesn't answer my question. Did the universe always exist or did god come before it, according to your faith?

I'm sure my dad will be okay with it.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19282673]tehehee... Having read it, it doesn't answer my question. Did the universe always exist or did god come before it, according to your faith?[/QUOTE] God came before the universe.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;19282677]I'm sure my dad will be okay with it.[/QUOTE] Good luck. When me and my mom go to China Buffet we always end up having some religious argument or whatever, it's pretty fun. [editline]04:34PM[/editline] [QUOTE=faze;19282691]God came before the universe.[/QUOTE] But earlier you said they both always existed.

[QUOTE=faze;19282691]God came before the universe.[/QUOTE] There was no ''before''. Without matter or observers there is no time.

[QUOTE=Reborn9;19282720]There was no ''before''. Without matter or observers there is no time.[/QUOTE] Maybe to human recollection.

[QUOTE=Derubermensch;19281116]If you even knew the story of Adam and Eve well enough you would know that god put the tree there to test the loyalty of Adam and Eve. Also god didn't create evil, Satan was an angel who rebelled against god and created sin. The entire argument you proposed is based upon misunderstandings.[/QUOTE] How could they have known what they were doing was good or bad before gaining the knowledge of it? How were the suppose to know the repercussions of the their actions when they didn't know they were doing something wrong. Very unfair. [QUOTE=faze;19281435]How about four, read this link: [url]http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/proof-that-god-exists-faq.htm[/url][/QUOTE] :allears: [QUOTE=Diet Kane;19281511]Why don't we just fucking let people believe what they want to believe and get over it? Jesus, people like you are as bad as bible thumping catholics. There's no difference.[/QUOTE] Well, if it was just a belief. I'm sure my fellow atheists here wouldn't have much of a problem. But if your beliefs tell you to kill a certain group of people to allow access to heaven, or halt the growth of certain fields of science (stem cells, cloning, etc) that could save or improve the lives of millions, it stops being so harmless, doesn't it? Beliefs aren't very harmless when it's telling people in Africa that condoms are ineffective against aids and pregnancy, causing countless deaths from HIV and complications during childbirth. Beliefs aren't harmless when it's telling people to fly planes into buildings and start holy wars, is it? I have no problem with people who want to believe there is a god and an afterlife, but when it starts to affect the lives and rights of those around them, things must change. Don't forget those religious who oppose genetic research and alteration of plants, which could potentially feed millions of people in third world countries AND our own, making food cheaper and more abundant. They say we shouldn't play god, but it seems we're already playing god by doing nothing. Some of the pious like to speak against science... See More, but without it, not only would our life spans not be in 80s, but the child mortality rate would be incredibly high, and death during childbirth would be commonplace. If we did not have inorganic farming methods, we would only be able to feed 2/3rds of the world's population, and I find it unlikely that 2 billion people would agree to starve. To all the other atheists out there preaching that this is the reason why atheist have no respect and don't label themselves as such. Does atheism deserve any respect, and did it even receive any in the first place? As Carl Sagan says, if we don't speak up now and allow such ideals to continue. Our society will fall back into the darkness of a dogmatic world where critical thinking and science is strongy discouraged.

[QUOTE=faze;19282732]Maybe to human recollection.[/QUOTE] Do you even know what you're talking about. No you don't.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19282615]What a waste of Sunday. I could argue that going to church impacts your thinking. What about when parents make their kids go to church, is that going too far? You can't tell when your faith impacts your thinking or goes too far. Only someone else can tell you that, based on society, and event that wouldn't be completely accurate as they would be basing it off their own experiences. All in all it's relative, but faith is still a broken and useless concept. (you can't tell when it goes too far because you believe it, does a terrorist think he's going too far with blowing himself up? no, but we think he does.)[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's a waste of a sunday to you. But to them, it makes them feel better about themselves. And most parents who make their children go to church HAVE crossed the line :eng101: You never really explained why it's broken and useless other than comparing it to an extremist, which does not prove the point at all.

[QUOTE=T-Minus10;19282735]How could they have known what they were doing was good or bad before gaining the knowledge of it? How were the suppose to know the repercussions of the their actions when they didn't know they were doing something wrong. Very unfair. :allears: [B]Well, if it was just a belief. I'm sure my fellow atheists here wouldn't have much of a problem. But if your beliefs tell you to kill a certain group of people to allow access to heaven, or halt the growth of certain fields of science (stem cells, cloning, etc) that could save or improve the lives of millions, it stops being so harmless, doesn't it? Beliefs aren't very harmless when it's telling people in Africa that condoms are ineffective against aids and pregnancy, causing countless deaths from HIV and complications during childbirth. Beliefs aren't harmless when it's telling people to fly planes into buildings and start holy wars, is it? I have no problem with people who want to believe there is a god and an afterlife, but when it starts to affect the lives and rights of those around them, things must change. Don't forget those religious who oppose genetic research and alteration of plants, which could potentially feed millions of people in third world countries AND our own, making food cheaper and more abundant. They say we shouldn't play god, but it seems we're already playing god by doing nothing. Some of the pious like to speak against science... See More, but without it, not only would our life spans not be in 80s, but the child mortality rate would be incredibly high, and death during childbirth would be commonplace. If we did not have inorganic farming methods, we would only be able to feed 2/3rds of the world's population, and I find it unlikely that 2 billion people would agree to starve. To all the other atheists out there preaching that this is the reason why atheist have no respect and don't label themselves as such. Does atheism deserve any respect, and did it even receive any in the first place? As Carl Sagan says, if we don't speak up now and allow such ideals to continue. Our society will fall back into the darkness of a dogmatic world where critical thinking and science is strongly discouraged.[/B][/QUOTE] I love you. If you don't mind I'm totally saving that quote so I can bring it up in future discussions.

[QUOTE=T-Minus10;19282735]How could they have known what they were doing was good or bad before gaining the knowledge of it? How were the suppose to know the repercussions of the their actions when they didn't know they were doing something wrong. Very unfair. :allears: Well, if it was just a belief. I'm sure my fellow atheists here wouldn't have much of a problem. But if your beliefs tell you to kill a certain group of people to allow access to heaven, or halt the growth of certain fields of science (stem cells, cloning, etc) that could save or improve the lives of millions, it stops being so harmless, doesn't it? Beliefs aren't very harmless when it's telling people in Africa that condoms are ineffective against aids and pregnancy, causing countless deaths from HIV and complications during childbirth. Beliefs aren't harmless when it's telling people to fly planes into buildings and start holy wars, is it? I have no problem with people who want to believe there is a god and an afterlife, but when it starts to affect the lives and rights of those around them, things must change. Don't forget those religious who oppose genetic research and alteration of plants, which could potentially feed millions of people in third world countries AND our own, making food cheaper and more abundant. They say we shouldn't play god, but it seems we're already playing god by doing nothing. Some of the pious like to speak against science... See More, but without it, not only would our life spans not be in 80s, but the child mortality rate would be incredibly high, and death during childbirth would be commonplace. If we did not have inorganic farming methods, we would only be able to feed 2/3rds of the world's population, and I find it unlikely that 2 billion people would agree to starve. To all the other atheists out there preaching that this is the reason why atheist have no respect and don't label themselves as such. Does atheism deserve any respect, and did it even receive any in the first place? As Carl Sagan says, if we don't speak up now and allow such ideals to continue. Our society will fall back into the darkness of a dogmatic world where critical thinking and science is strongy discouraged.[/QUOTE] "An atheist has to know a lot more than I know." -carl sagan

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19282799]I love you. If you don't mind I'm totally saving that quote so I can bring it up in future discussions.[/QUOTE] Feel free to use it all you wish. [QUOTE=Cheesemonkey;19282815]"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know." -carl sagan[/QUOTE] No truer words have been spoken, I'm reading one of his books now, "Demon-Haunted World." Recommended read to anyone.

[QUOTE=Cheesemonkey;19282765]Yeah, it's a waste of a sunday to you. But to them, it makes them feel better about themselves. And most parents who make their children go to church HAVE crossed the line :eng101: [B]You never really explained why it's broken and useless other than comparing it to an extremist, which does not prove the point at all.[/B][/QUOTE] It's broken, it doesn't help anything, other then making you feel better about eventually dying or whatever, but people can overcome that by themselves, without creating some broken belief that stifles science, which ironically would extend their lives, and perhaps eventually grant us near immortality.

FAZE. If you believe in God, leave this thread now. There is no point trying to enforce your beliefs.

I think that it's a great quote when used against organized religion or people that take it too seriously, but not religion in itself.

[QUOTE=Chad Mobile;19282881]FAZE. If you believe in God, leave this thread now. [B]There is no point trying to enforce your beliefs.[/B][/QUOTE] Yes there is. I can think of no greater use of the internet, other then porn, then for sharing ideas and beliefs, and discussing them.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;19282868]It's broken, it doesn't help anything, other then making you feel better about eventually dying or whatever, but people can overcome that by themselves, without creating some broken belief that stifles science, which ironically would extend their lives, and perhaps eventually grant us near immortality.[/QUOTE] It doesn't stifle science, belief in a deity does not go against any modern scientific evidence. Religion does nothing to stifle science. The science stifling is being done by fundimentalist christians.