[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;24949808]Rich people really should be taxed more. Socialism isn't that bad at all, anybody who protests it is either a greedy fuck or an idiot stuck in a post-cold-war era.[/QUOTE]
Support your argument with facts please.
[QUOTE=ASmellyOgreV2;24950852]I agree. That way, we can have way too much in taxes for the poor and way too little for the rich. Seriously, if anything, a value-added tax. And then only MAYBE.[/QUOTE]
Everyone should have to contribute the same amount to the running of the country regardless of wealth.
[QUOTE=ASmellyOgreV2;24950852]I agree. That way, we can have way too much in taxes for the poor and way too little for the rich. Seriously, if anything, a value-added tax. And then only MAYBE.[/QUOTE]
i see you want everyone to earn the same amount of money regardless of contributions or importance. I'm sure there are many countries with a system like this that you could move to.
who the fuck rated me agree
Cut the low income and tax the high income, that way the lower incomes are better positioned to make their way up the economic ladder and contribute, and the higher have more incentive to make even more money to keep their wealth large.
[QUOTE=SteelReal;24950456]How?[/QUOTE]
It should be obvious. Try separating the fact that rich contribute more to society. Pretend everyone is on a level playing field. Who gains more from society, someone who has to work 3 jobs to afford food and rent or someone who can afford a house, food, auto insurance, life insurance and much more?
Besides, [url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-13/rich-americans-save-money-from-tax-cuts-instead-of-spending-moody-s-says.html]tax cuts for the rich do not equal more spending from the rich[/url]
[editline]06:56PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=NightmareXx;24950959]i see you want everyone to earn the same amount of money regardless of contributions or importance. I'm sure there are many countries with a system like this that you could move to.[/QUOTE]
are you saying that the rich will disappear if they have to pay a higher tax percentage? That's a load of bullshit.
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;24949808]Rich people really should be taxed more. Socialism isn't that bad at all, anybody who protests it is either a greedy fuck or an idiot stuck in a post-cold-war era.[/QUOTE]
You do not want socialism. You want a mixed economy that is somewhat close to the socialist end of the spectrum. Government ownership of all industries is not a good thing.
[QUOTE=SteelReal;24950864]Everyone should have to contribute the same amount to the running of the country regardless of wealth.[/QUOTE]
That would only work if we all earned the same amount of money. None of us live in a communist country(I assume).
Work hard, pay more money.
Don't work hard, pay less money.
this logic is flawed
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;24951211]You do not want socialism. You want a mixed economy that is somewhat close to the socialist end of the spectrum. Government ownership of all industries is not a good thing.[/QUOTE]
That's communism.
[QUOTE=Mr.Dounut;24951231]Work hard, pay more money.
Don't work hard, pay less money.
this logic is flawed[/QUOTE]
If America was a perfect country, that logic would be sound. But it isn't.
[QUOTE=SteelReal;24950864]Support your argument with facts please.
Everyone should have to contribute the same amount to the running of the country regardless of wealth.[/QUOTE]
Hnnngh. Wealthy have more to give. If you tell a billionaire and a pauper to give you $100, who will be more affected?
[QUOTE=Mr.Dounut;24951231]Work hard, pay more money.
Don't work hard, pay less money.
this logic is flawed[/QUOTE]
Working hard does not necessarily equal more money.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;24950798]The government should be made smaller, not bigger. They've already wasted enough of taxpayer money in the last two presidencies.[/QUOTE]
I sorta agree. We gotta cut back defense spending at some point.
[QUOTE=Mr.Dounut;24951231]Work hard, pay more money.
Don't work hard, pay less money.
this logic is flawed[/QUOTE]
False dichotomy, regardless of what your fairy dust magic rainbow worldview tells you working hard doesn't mean more money, just as not working hard doesn't mean less.
Tax the people who have more money more?
MADNESS!
[QUOTE=Lambeth;24951247]That's communism.[/QUOTE]
Nope. Look it up. I did.
In communism, there are no personal possessions at all. In socialism, there is money, but all industries are owned by the government.
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;24951305]Nope. Look it up. I did.
In communism, there are no personal possessions at all. In socialism, there is money, but all industries are owned by the government.[/QUOTE]
In a Socialist country, the middle class is the government so pretty much everyone owns the industries.
richer people stays rich or richer
poor people gets poorer
capitalism, socialism, and communism doesnt work
we need a fourth system
[QUOTE=BmB;24951128]the higher have more incentive to make even more money to keep their wealth large.[/QUOTE]
so they can be taxed even more.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;24951333]capitalism, socialism, and communism doesnt work[/QUOTE]
Capitalism doesn't work over a long period of time but saying Socialism and Communism doesn't work is ignorant. Socialism has been proven to work quite well and Communism has never been properly implemented before.
[QUOTE=Mr.Dounut;24951231]Work hard, pay more money.
Don't work hard, pay less money.
this logic is flawed[/QUOTE]
the rich have shit loads of more money to give
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;24951333]richer people stays rich or richer
poor people gets poorer
capitalism, socialism, and communism doesnt work
we need a fourth system[/QUOTE]
This world doesn't run off of baby giggles and kitten farts, all the systems suck, turns out capitalism just lasts longer before it crashes into the ground, it's the best one we can probably ever have. Unless Greed and wanting more is gone from humanity, then communism would work, but well, people are greedy, so it isn't happening.
higher tax doesn't effect them in any real way or hinder their quality of life.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;24951383]This world doesn't run off of baby giggles and kitten farts, all the systems suck, turns out capitalism just lasts longer before it crashes into the ground, it's the best one we can probably ever have. Unless Greed and wanting more is gone from humanity, then communism would work, but well, people are greedy, so it isn't happening.[/QUOTE]
but what if we, right now, made a economic system based on baby giggles and kitten farts?
we would be called revolutionaries
let's do it guys
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;24951399]but what if we, right now, made a economic system based on baby giggles and kitten farts?
we would be called revolutionaries
let's do it guys[/QUOTE]
I knew all of these bottled kitten farts would be useful someday.
The problem I have with higher taxes isn't that I disagree with taxing some people higher and some less, but that the government as a whole is hilariously bad at using the funds it gets from taxes. Throwing money at the government through taxes won't do anything with how inefficient it is spent.
That really is the only problem I have with socialism, just the fact that nearly all governments are hilariously bad at how it spends the money it takes from you.
[QUOTE=NightmareXx;24950565]hi my grandfather immigrated from the middle east with almost no money but he got a degree and became a successful engineer.
so it is if you are willing to work for it.[/QUOTE]
Ya bollocks. My cousin was born to a poor family. His parents didn't have the money to send him to a good school. He ended up in a shitty second rate public school. The teachers didn't teach, the administration didn't care. He hasn't the money or the ability to get into college. Any job resume he sends in, he's sent out because his school is what it is.
He literally can't get a job because of the reputation of the school and the neighborhood he has no choice in living in. No job, no money, no proper education- and he can't do anything about it. He won't go to college for at least years after he gets his high school diploma because of the economy and the aforementioned aspects of his background. His destiny is to end up like his dad- high school education working as a lower-middle class, barely hovering over poverty blue collar laborer.
His dad was born into poverty, no money for college, and while he got a job young, he couldn't get one that paid more than minimum wage. By time he actually could, he was in his late 20s, and had a wife and a baby to take care of. He works every day of his life in his laborious job, and damn hard. I don't think I've ever seen him out of his work clothes, honestly. Two jobs. His wife divorced him five years ago. He still pays for the kids because she chooses not to work and got pregnant again and married a dead beat. His options were be alright financially and abandon his children, or take care of his fucking kids as best as possible and remain, himself, in poverty. The little he makes from his 2 jobs mostly goes to his children. He payed rent to a friend so he had a place to live and saved up for 3 years to be able to rent his own separate place- a shithole of a room they call an apartment. This man has worked harder than I probably ever will my entire life, and he's trapped at poverty due to things out of his control.
His father, my grandfather, was kicked out of the house at age 15, and had to back breaking farm labor at shitty pay by today's standards until he had enough to afford to go back to high school. But he was so uneducated that it took him well over 6 years to even finish that. By that time, he was poor, on his own, and had only basic jobs available. He saw the army as his only choice. He joined a month before the war in Vietnam ended and got place din Germany for years. When he returned, he had no way to get income as all the jobs were taken by returning vets and those stationed oversees like he was. He found farm labor as his only possibility again. He made little money, but he eventually saved up enough to purchase a house. He met my grandmother and they got married. His lack of any degree and poor education could only land him labor jobs. He eventually became an employee of a vending machine mover and repairman. He was stuck at that level of occupation for his whole life.
My mother, the oldest of 4, had a conflict with my grandparents when she was 17 over a boyfriend. They, being strict, kicked her out of the house. She lived on her own for years. She met my father not long after. they got married, she got pregnant, she had me, he left and went off the radar. Divorced and then left the country, apparently. I was left with her. She worked 2 jobs most her life. She got a basic college education when I was 10, and it's taken her this long to receive enough to go back for another degree. She wishes to become a social worker- she's working hard to do so. She's put hard work into everything she's done and today we live pretty well off. But the massive amounts of work that she had to go through to get there shouldn't have to be bared by anyone. Her goal is to rehabilitate those who have made mistakes int heir life concerning drugs, because one single mistake when you're young concerning that will remove any chance you will ever get to become something. She knows the hardships they must endure.
My mother's best friend and one of my friends has three children. One of them has a major immunity deficiency that no health care provider will cover. Neither one of them (her or her husband) have the education to get a job any better than they have now, so their pay level is practically set at around the normal-two-person-family-could-survive-off-this-level, but unfortunately they have 4 family members, not counting their 22 year old son in the army, one of which with fucking terrible medical bills. They live in near poverty, in large debt, trying to survive off their incomes. They don't have the money to hold onto their house, let alone pay for college. Recently, due to a work situation she had no power over, she was laid off due to a combined personal matter between a superior now under examination for abuse of power, and massive lay-offs by the government in her area of the courthouse she used to work at. She's jobless, and has been looking since then, but there simply aren't jobs available. Even the most basic and low-paid jobs like fast food and the like are full up.
None of these examples can be fixed with hard work. Some of them have worked harder than most people with money have, but are still stuck in shit. Hard work doesn't work most of the time- our society shits on those born in shit and prevents them from washing the shit off. Very very rarely will anyone ever rise from the shit, and that's mostly luck, not hard work that determines that- being at the right place at the right time so that the right paths are open just then. My uncle breaks his back, my grandfather broke his back, my mother nearly broke hers every day of their lives- hard fucking work, but they're still stuck in the shit. The only reason that my other two aunts are fair-off is because they married into upper-middle class/lower-upper class families that had opportunities for education and specialization. That had nothing to do with hard work, either.
Hard work is good, but it does fuck-all in a system where so many people are so bad off and so few pull the strings of the economy and flow of money.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;24951399]but what if we, right now, made a economic system based on baby giggles and kitten farts?
we would be called revolutionaries
let's do it guys[/QUOTE]
"I would like to buy that car for 1000 baby giggles please."
[QUOTE=Lambeth;24951269]Working hard does not necessarily equal more money.[/QUOTE]
There is small situations where you get butt-fucked by your own birth and you cannot prevent it, but you need to have even have the poor to be rich.
In-fact, by using whatever computer that you're posting from right now, from that information alone if you work hard enough you'll become a billionare.
[I]If you work hard enough.[/I]
Sometimes you just get fucked over though, and I'm sorry to break it to you, but...
Life isn't fair, get fucking used to it.
