• Trigger Warnings and Seeing Offensiveness in Everything is Hurting College Education
    155 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;48522953]I'm more interested in knowing exactly HOW that is offensive.[/QUOTE] you hurt the feelings of people who are worried they might not be the most qualified for the position. groups of people interrupt meetings over this.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48523132]Probably shouldn't be saying racist or sexist things then should you? What benefit does saying something that demeans another race or gender have? This isn't "pc gone mad!!!!!", this is being a decent human being and not being a cockgargling mouthbreather with zero empathy around others. The concept of triggers is pretty reasonable, somebody who has been through a traumatic experience (especially recently) is not going to react well to encountering content with that in it normally. A heads up that "hey this has some pretty graphic descriptions of rape in it, so yeah...only read it if you can take it" is in no way "offensive" and anybody who believes as such has got to be lacking empathy. None of this has gotten out of control in the public sphere, and it's barely out of control on the Internet. It's a pretty fucking small minority of people who try and attribute trigger words to everything they can. And how many of those people are trolls doing it to cause even more backlash is totally up in the air.[/QUOTE] I have PTSD from doing 2 spinouts in a row on a highway going 100+ k's an hour but you don't see me yelling about triggers whenever someone brings up trucks
My friend was the President of the GSA club at our college campus last year (we go to a regional campus for the main state university). Last semester she set up a dance through the in for the campus, was approved by all the relevent parties and whatnot. Got delayed a couple times due to bad weather, it was after it was delayed a second time that my friend was told she had to change the posters which had the phrase "no jeans" written on it as she was told by the head of campus and the director of student activities that "no" isn't inclusive enough and would make some people feel "left out". The fact I saw this happen at my oen school was astonishing and opened my eyes a bit how far that type of shit can, has, and will spread.
The word "trigger" seems to reflect a massively hypersensitive version of "politically correct" anymore. If someone is going to get offended, that's on them. If you're walking around telling people they're fat and unattractive and the color of their skin is inferior and they're retarded and stuff like that then yes, that's bad and offensive. If you list a job posting asking for someone with experience, is that bad because someone inexperienced will get offended? If you hire a security officer or lifeguard because they're physically fit and can save people, do unfit people get offended? If you tell your classroom proper grammar or scientific methods, do you need to censor yourself because someone will disagree and get offended? This is ridiculous.
Is this just a recent thing or has it always been like this? I think people need to grow a thicker skin. They're going to college to get the best education they can. Life is full of offensive stuff and unless you're going to crawl up into a ball in a lead lined room, you're going to be exposed to it. So you need to maintain a sense of rationality when something offends you.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48523132]Probably shouldn't be saying racist or sexist things then should you? What benefit does saying something that demeans another race or gender have? This isn't "pc gone mad!!!!!", this is being a decent human being and not being a cockgargling mouthbreather with zero empathy around others. The concept of triggers is pretty reasonable, somebody who has been through a traumatic experience (especially recently) is not going to react well to encountering content with that in it normally. A heads up that "hey this has some pretty graphic descriptions of rape in it, so yeah...only read it if you can take it" is in no way "offensive" and anybody who believes as such has got to be lacking empathy. None of this has gotten out of control in the public sphere, and it's barely out of control on the Internet. It's a pretty fucking small minority of people who try and attribute trigger words to everything they can. And how many of those people are trolls doing it to cause even more backlash is totally up in the air.[/QUOTE] The concept of triggers is redundant in a College setting because you get a a fucking Syllabus, you can easily google the books and such to find out and you will when you have to buy them yourself. [I]Motherfucker further,[/I] psychologists who've specialized in trauma and PTSD have been dancing up and down screaming, 'THIS DOESN'T HELP. AVERSION THERAPY DOES NOT HELP.' Trigger warnings are a sophomoric attempt at helping people by coddling them away from what makes them scared instead of helping them slowly face their fears. That's how you fight fear, by slowly introducing that fear into someone's life through controlled methods so they can not only get a sense of what happened but also so they get better by overcoming that fear.
Reimu/Phil, the guy who a few years ago was one of the major proponents of putting trigger warnings on books (I think To Kill a Mockingbird was one of the big ones named at the time), agrees that they have become seriously abused and out of control in their use. Wonder how Reimu is doing actually.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;48523466]Reimu/Phil, the guy who a few years ago was one of the major proponents of putting trigger warnings on books (I think To Kill a Mockingbird was one of the big ones named at the time), agrees that they have become seriously abused and out of control in their use. Wonder how Reimu is doing actually.[/QUOTE] Reimu is doing well; she's been busy with writing articles and school work. Uber, Remiu an I haven't been able to get together to do another podcast.
I had a teacher once tell me I shouldn't use the word man to refer to everyone as a species. Neil Armstrong didn't get told "hey you shouldn't refer to humans as man because that's gender biased" suffice to say I ignored it on all the other papers
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48522956]Can you provide an example?[/QUOTE] don't bother, every single post of his regarding social issues is basically what a /pol/ poster doing a bad job at pretending not to be one would post.
What happened to hex? Wasn't he quite sane and reasonable a few years back? Now all he does is spout how triggering is a sensible idea. Like, what?
What bothers me about topics like this, is it's like every other sociopolitical issue on the internet, people that are extreme left/right are usually the extremely narrow minded vocal minority. In this case it's the "fuckin SJWs broke into my house and drilled holes in all my spoons" and the "censor everything so we never have to deal with anything traumatic," who both never consider a middle-ground. Trigger warnings work well in social media/internet scenarios because the choice to read, watch, or absorb something is entirely up to the viewer's discretion. Those who don't wish to confront something that may be traumatic is that person's choice and only affects them. The only people who really get mad about trigger warnings are people that can't handle the fact that others may react to things differently than them, and are convinced that you'll eventually be 'silenced' and 'living in an Orwellian future' because of them But when it comes into education, things get sticky, and it's incredibly easy for this to become a "this novel has depictions of racial prejudice/domestic abuse/rape, so we should avoid it at all costs," which harms everyone. Those that want to learn are prevented from doing so, and those that might grow and learn to confront traumatic subjects never get the opportunity to do so. I would keep editing this post but OvB did a much better job at conveying most of what I'm trying to say in the post below this
Glad I don't go to a school that's full of this stuff. We can actually get work done. Then again I go to a really small satellite campus with less than 5000 students and our student body is fairly homogeneous. Not sure what it's like at the main campus. Texas A&M is pretty conservative as far as college goes. I think you can live your life being courteous to everyone and not have to worry excessively about hurting someones feelings. I'm a "white cis male" and my life doesn't revolve around my gender, skin color, or sexual orientation. I have no problem or prejudice towards people that are different than me in that regard. So if I accidentally do something that hurts you, please tell me and I'll apologize and I'll make sure I won't do it next time I meet you. I can't keep track of everyone's possible gender identity. I'm not [i]trying[/i] to hurt you. The would be terrible for someone to do. I think all college should be a place of open discussion. That's how you discover new ideas. When you enter college you should understand that you're going to be exposed to thing you might not like, but a huge part of college is being exposed to different beliefs. If you have a serious degree of PTSD, and someone is about to do a seminar on a thing that will give you distress, be it a war story or a rape victim, you should quietly leave the room and explain later. Watering down everyone's education because a handful don't like it is not education.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48523461]The concept of triggers is redundant in a College setting because you get a a fucking Syllabus, you can easily google the books and such to find out and you will when you have to buy them yourself. [I]Motherfucker further,[/I] psychologists who've specialized in trauma and PTSD have been dancing up and down screaming, 'THIS DOESN'T HELP. AVERSION THERAPY DOES NOT HELP.' Trigger warnings are a sophomoric attempt at helping people by coddling them away from what makes them scared instead of helping them slowly face their fears. That's how you fight fear, by slowly introducing that fear into someone's life through controlled methods so they can not only get a sense of what happened but also so they get better by overcoming that fear.[/QUOTE] What trigger warnings [I]should[/I] be used for is to help people who are slowly acclimating and make sure they don't accidentally fall into the proverbial open manhole. For example "Trigger warning: this article goes into graphic details about an instance of rape", or "Trigger warning: this is footage of an actual warzone". Not "Trigger warning: the word r*pe is mentioned", or "Trigger warning: other people don't have your exact dietary habits". That would be like putting up a 50 ft radius of police tape and safety cones around a closed manhole.
[QUOTE=Last or First;48523833]That would be like putting up a 50 ft radius of police tape and safety cones around a closed manhole.[/QUOTE] More like, every single place that could physically have a manhole. Even if there's no actual manholes there.
On the plus side, perhaps I can start putting "thick-skinned" on my CV :v:
[QUOTE=Fangz;48522962]Reddit.[/QUOTE] Oh, okay then, that explains a lot
I feel like trigger warnings are more harmful to people with PTSD in the long run because it allows you to just run from whatever bothers you instead of dealing with it and I say this as someone who has been offered PTSD counseling because of how horribly abusive my childhood was.
[QUOTE]“I believe the most qualified person should get the job.”[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;48522914]What kind of inbred thinks this is an offensive statement?[/QUOTE] [I]"You think you have better genes or something you nazi?"[/I] [QUOTE]“I’m colorblind! I don’t see race.” [/QUOTE] Can somebody explain to me how this is a microaggression? Does your race matter that much to you? I only use mine for racist jokes. [QUOTE]Social media makes it extraordinarily easy to join crusades, express solidarity and outrage, and shun traitors.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;im25MN5AwIc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im25MN5AwIc[/video] What a wonderful sight to see. Facebook jokes leading to death threats, petitions and marches.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;48522914]What kind of inbred thinks this is an offensive statement?[/QUOTE] It's a pretty subtle way of saying "Affirmative action is bad". I've seen it used plenty of times by people arguing against it, so it's not unfounded. These "Microaggressions" are mostly context, context, context, how you use the statement in relation to the topic at hand. Really though, so far at my college I haven't really seen the omg triggers avoid it at all cost, like at orientation they narrated a college rape scene to show people what it's like and the most they did was give people a heads up as to what's going to happen and say you can leave the room any time, that's the most reasonable way to go about it [editline]23rd August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rangergxi;48524022]You think you have better genes or something you nazi? Can somebody explain to me how this is a microaggression? Does your race matter that much to you? I only use mine for racist jokes. [/QUOTE] It's because racism is still a thing and often times saying you're colorblind means you don't acknowledge it. Like all of these, context is everything.
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;48524079] It's because racism is still a thing and often times saying you're colorblind means you don't acknowledge it. Like all of these, context is everything.[/QUOTE] Saying that you're colorblind to race means that you yourself disregard race when you interacting with other people. Its as anti-racist as you can get.
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;48524079]It's a pretty subtle way of saying "Affirmative action is bad". I've seen it used plenty of times by people arguing against it, so it's not unfounded. These "Microaggressions" are mostly context, context, context, how you use the statement in relation to the topic at hand.[/QUOTE] Uh, what? How is arguing against discrimination and favouritism offensive in the slightest? Even if you disagree with people who don't believe in the alleged virtues of AA you can't say that merely implicitly referring to one of their arguments is an 'aggression', micro or not, and if you do that's pretty telling of your own mentality which puts faith over rationality.
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;48524079]It's a pretty subtle way of saying "Affirmative action is bad". I've seen it used plenty of times by people arguing against it, so it's not unfounded. These "Microaggressions" are mostly context, context, context, how you use the statement in relation to the topic at hand. [/QUOTE] So the idea of meritocracy is bad? Sorry, but it sounds like you're warping the context to mean what you want it to mean, instead of what someone might actually want it to mean. [QUOTE=Aldawolf;48524079] It's because racism is still a thing and often times saying you're colorblind means you don't acknowledge it. Like all of these, context is everything.[/QUOTE] I always thought it meant that whoever was saying it as a [B]person[/B] had chosen to ignore race instead of meaning that society as a whole had moved on.
[QUOTE=Kindashort;48523986]I feel like trigger warnings are more harmful to people with PTSD in the long run because it allows you to just run from whatever bothers you instead of dealing with it and I say this as someone who has been offered PTSD counseling because of how horribly abusive my childhood was.[/QUOTE] All the triggering people are turning an actually serious condition into a laughing stock.
[QUOTE=greasemunky;48524141]So the idea of meritocracy is bad? Sorry, but it sounds like you're warping the context to mean what you want it to mean, instead of what someone might actually want it to mean. I always thought it meant that whoever was saying it as a [B]person[/B] had chosen to ignore race instead of meaning that society as a whole had moved on.[/QUOTE] I can't stress enough that the context of the topic at hand is important to what these phrases can potentially mean.
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;48524167]I can't stress enough that the context of the topic at hand is important to what these phrases can potentially mean.[/QUOTE] There's literally no situation where "I think the most qualified person should get the job" could be considered offensive.
Every time trigger warnings come up as a subject, I see the same few ignorant discursive tropes and it's frustrating, so here's a breakdown of the most common misconceptions. 1. You wouldn't force someone in Narcotics Anonymous into a conversation about their favorite part of heroin use. In fact, I know multiple people whose trigger is drug abuse. Conversations about the use and abuse of drugs carry the danger relapse, or at the very least, intense discomfort. Likewise, "domestic abuse," "depression," "rape," and other similarly weighty triggers are used to protect people who are in legitimate danger of relapse into depression or a worsening in mental health. 2. Yes, people whose triggers stem from trauma should have exposure therapy, but teachers and students aren't qualified to practice therapy; only therapists know how to do it without causing further harm. In my experience, most people with triggers are in therapy, and their mental health is improving. Resurfacing traumas outside of a safe place is anything but helpful and will only make it harder for them to "get over it". 3. The only people I've ever seen do that "OMG TRIGGERED" thing are people mocking triggers. Generally, when a triggering subject comes up in a conversation, the people who would be affected leave the conversation quietly. Triggers are treated with gravity by those who really need them. 4. And last but not least, "Trigger warnings are a feminist plot to shut down political dissent." I haven't seen this one on facepunch yet, but it's prevalent elsewhere. That's some ridiculous shit if I've ever seen ridiculous shit; there's no feminist cabal pulling the strings of our government; why do I even need to say this; etc etc.
sorry but not only are most of you not college educated - indisputably, from the facepunch census - and are therefore left to only speculate and project your need to be outraged onto a problem that barely exists, and even if it were real, most of you who are have chosen to do the physical sciences and, in my experience with the forum, actually disdain the liberal arts and humanities as useless. which first of all presents the issue of bias, and then is more or less limited to affecting those departments anyway. never once did i confront any of these issues in my curriculum at any of the three universities i attended, two of which are sufficiently liberal campuses to, i guarantee, warrant your suspicions
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48524165]All the triggering people are turning an actually serious condition into a laughing stock.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Trigger warnings are alerts that professors are expected to issue if something in a course might cause a strong emotional response. For example, some students have called for warnings that Chinua Achebe’s Things Fall Apart describes racial violence and that F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby portrays misogyny and physical abuse, so that students who have been previously victimized by racism or domestic violence can choose to avoid these works, which they believe might “trigger” a recurrence of past trauma.[/QUOTE] Ironic how one of these books criticized the hypocrisy of a wealthy elite that pretty much had everything handed to them by their parents. I don't know, I feel like victims should be offended that people want them to be treated as children or that ptsd apparently can be self diagnosed and triggered by reading tweets that have opposing views.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48524212]sorry but not only are most of you not college educated - indisputably, from the facepunch census - and are therefore left to only speculate and project your need to be outraged onto a problem that barely exists, and even if it were real, most of you who are have chosen to do the physical sciences and, in my experience with the forum, actually disdain the liberal arts and humanities as useless. the issue in question are more or less limited to affecting those departments. never once did i confront any of these issues in my curriculum at any of the three universities i attended, two of which are sufficiently liberal campuses to, i guarantee, warrant your suspicions[/QUOTE] The article mentions law, is that considered humanities/liberal arts in the US? Over here I don't think it is. I also don't see why you feel the need to convince us that there's no issue at all with these policies using anecdotal evidence when the article does mention several. They're not huge problems but I think they are worth discussing.
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