• Drones 'inhumane' dead Al-Qaeda man's family says...(irony?)
    136 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36241237]I'd take drones over men on the ground any day. If you have men walking around there's a [B]bigger chance of a bomb going off near them, taking out civvies[/B]. The drones will just force them into the cities, and just wait for them to step outside on a bad day.[/QUOTE] this would be a good point if it weren't blatantly wrong if you're going to speak in support of drones please have the decency to not pretend it is somehow saving civilians as well
Why does the title read like it went through a word scrambler?
[QUOTE=Kopimi;36239550]uhm yep i'm glad you're finally catching on to how drone strikes work nice title insult man that really cuts deep i don't know whats more embarrassing, reading the pro-drone posts or seeing that literally every pro-drone post has the exact same people rating "zinger" and "winner" because they cant be bothered to assert their own (stupid) opinion themselves [editline]7th June 2012[/editline] none of you even remotely get the point, the entire thread is filled with kneejerk "UM BUT YOU CUT PEOPLES HEADS OFF" reactions like clockwork. you read the title and that's p much all you read. somehow you've come to the conclusion that because it's ironic for them to complain about inhuman killings when they themselves do it, somehow that means its NOT ironic when we're performing inhumane killings and claiming to be champions of freedom and human rights? the point hes making is that we claim to be protectors of freedom and helpers of the people, a nation that respects human rights, yet we're engaged in drone strikes that [B]have been confirmed[/B] to kill plenty of civilians in the crossfire. do you not see the irony there or is your massive USA-boner so tall it's blocking your line of sight to the article that clearly explains WHY these strikes are controversial and fucked up??[/QUOTE] And again, this is fucking war. People will be caught in the crossfire. Its not good, but it will happen no matter what. [editline]7th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36241237]I'd take drones over men on the ground any day. If you have men walking around there's a bigger chance of a bomb going off near them, taking out civvies. The drones will just force them into the cities, and just wait for them to step outside on a bad day.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure we've fired missiles into buildings in towns before.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36241466]And again, this is fucking war. People will be caught in the crossfire. Its not good, but it will happen no matter what. [editline]7th June 2012[/editline] I'm pretty sure we've fired missiles into buildings in towns before.[/QUOTE] yeah it is unfortunate, which is why it should be avoided if possible. the best part is that it is avoidable, by not using drones! [editline]8th June 2012[/editline] its like whenever you're confronted with huge numbers of civilian deaths you just stonewall and say "SORRY ITS WAR LALALALALA"
[QUOTE=Isuzu;36234581]good god dude, al quaeda isnt even the main player. alquaeda simply retorted after what they reasoned to be an oppressive and humiliating invasion of foreign US interest to destabilize the region. First the US supplies the shah of persia with weapons to hold him has a puppet versus the soviets. Too bad he was a ruthless merciless (USA aided dont forget) dictator which prompted the iranian revolution. So the US needs someone to fight Iran for them now because all those countless weapons are now in the hands of Khomeini. Cue saddam hussein who was promised by the west to keep the oil wells in iran should he conquer them. That didnt work for the 8 years he was gassing kurds and shooting iranias (completely fine with the US btw) so he turns to kuweit for his oil. So he gets invaded and completely bashed. The US has an entire encyclopiedia of destabilizing the middle east and, as you said, were insulting muslims by stationing soldiers in holy lands. I dont agree with religion either but theres people who believe in that quack so hard that adds to another irritation for pretty much everyone in that region. and dont say thats just because theyre silly uncivillised muslims. Christianity has the bloodiest history of them all and imagine the outrage if the Taliban stationed troops in the Vatican or america. Al quaeda simply carried out a revenge attack for the decades of western-incited bloodshed. its not just about people being butthurt, its about people seeing the west toying with their governments and playing them out against each other. not to forget how friendly and humane american soldiers like to represent their country to everyone over there y'know by pissing on dead peoples bodies[/QUOTE] AQ's always hated us because we're allies with Israel. Salafist Jihad and Sharia law is incompatible with American democracy. AQ was looking for another enemy after the extremists sent the big bad Russians packing. To help you get over your ignorance I wrote you a story. It's called "How Osama & Company Thought They Could Fuck With America, But Instead Got Ass-Fucked" Wordy title? I know. [B]Ch. 1[/B] "Oh look" said Osama, "the USSR has collapsed and America is the sole superpower now. It would be such a victory for Wahhabism and Salafism if I could defeat America in battle too." So little Osama cozied up to his new friend Mullah Omar, the head of the Taliban who offered Osama a safe haven in Afghanistan. [B]Ch. 2[/B] "I should persuade and fund compatriots to attack America while I make plans for attacks of own design." thought Osama, "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing"]I'll tell my good buddy KSM to get right on it[/URL]." Mullah Omar asked Osama what he was doing. "Nothing," Osama said, "go back to oppressing Afghanistan and let me be." [B]Ch. 3[/B] Osama then contacted some of his buddies in Africa. "I heard," Osama said to them, "that the Americans are invading Somalia. Also I heard the the 1994 Rwandan Genocide was planned by the Americans. You should bomb them." His North African buddies were outraged. "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings#cite_note-indictment-25"]Let's bomb American embassies[/URL]!" they shouted. Osama snickered. "Those idiots are going to start my holy war for me. If I'm lucky, America might even try to come and get me here in Afghanistan and I can ruin them like I ruined the USSR." [B]Ch. 4[/B] "Hey," said Osama, "You know what really rustles my jimmies? The US has around 5,000 troops in Saudi Arabia. 5,000 infidels!" However, Osama ignored the fact that the troops were Air-Force personnel by a large margin who were there to defend Saudi Arabia from Iraqi invasion and enforce Operation Southern Watch, while the US ground troops were sent there to train Saudi troops. He also ignored the fact the Saudi leadership approved of the US deployment and that the Saudi rulers were close allies of America, and purchased billions of dollars worth of American weaponry in addition to requesting American military support. "It's an occupation!" Osama stupidly said, "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks"]I can use this to convince uneducated young Saudi's who don't know anything about the US or the US-Saudi relationship to commit senseless violence against innocent Saudi's and American civilians/military personnel while teaching them my radical version of Salafism.[/URL] This is genius." [B]Ch. 5 [/B] "This is awesome! Look at the thousands of infidels dying on live T.V." said Osama. He also heard about 9/11 live on BBC radio, and cheered/shouted with joy. "The best part is they'll come to Afghanistan looking for me, but Mullah Omar will defend me." Just then Mullah Omar called Osama over. "What is it now, Omar?" said Osama. Omar said, "Did your hear about these attacks in NY, Osama?" Osama nodded. "Are you responsible in any way?" asked Mullah Omar. Osama swore to Omar that he was not involved in any way. Then, Osama claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. "What the fuck Osama? You told me you weren't involved in this shit." screamed Omar. "I lied" said Osama "deal with it, bitch." Mullah Omar began sweating a little. "Now America is going to come over here and kick our asses! Get out of Afghanistan you little bitch!" Osama fled to Pakistan where he had friends in the ISI. [B]Ch. 6[/B] So America came and smashed the Taliban apart and eviscerated the Al-Qaeda leadership although a monkey by the name of George W. Bush started another war against the wrong enemy and delayed the US by about a decade, eventually some Navy SEALs found Osama and stuck the barrel of an M-4 up his ass. Mullah Omar ran into Pakistan as well, and his Taliban fell apart and now he's hiding in some rural house/cave whimpering and refusing to show his face. Nowadays the Americans fight mostly against uneducated farmers who are paid $10 by some Paki's to take potshots at Americans or place bombs in the road because they have no education/jobs. But the Taliban and AQ leadership is long gone thanks to USSOCOM and Drones. For some reason America is still in Afghanistan, but nobody can really explain why and everybody can't wait until 2014 when America can leave. Except for Karzai, that whiny bitch is eternally afraid of Iran and especially afraid of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's mustache. THE END.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;36241564]yeah it is unfortunate, which is why it should be avoided if possible. the best part is that it is avoidable, by not using drones! [editline]8th June 2012[/editline] its like whenever you're confronted with huge numbers of civilian deaths you just stonewall and say "SORRY ITS WAR LALALALALA"[/QUOTE] Well, [I]it is war.[/I] Considering how effective the drones have been, I see no reason to halt their use. Far more civilians are killed with standard weapons, yet I don't see you bitching about them. No matter what weapons we use civilians are gonna die.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36242661]Well, [I]it is war.[/I] Considering how effective the drones have been, I see no reason to halt their use. Far more civilians are killed with standard weapons, yet I don't see you bitching about them. No matter what weapons we use civilians are gonna die.[/QUOTE] But a lot [i]more[/i] civilians die when we use missile strikes instead of foot soldiers, even when we can confirm the target and don't screw up because a camera crew looked like they were carrying RPGs when viewed through a camera a mile up. And it sure doesn't help build respect or friendly relations with the community when their only contact with Americans is explosives falling from the sky. This isn't a war that can be won by simply killing everyone involved, a huge part of it is earning the trust of the people so we can get them on our side and [i]not[/i] have every grieving son or husband after a botched drone strike be an easy recruit for Al-Qaeda.
[QUOTE=David29;36239913]1. I never attempted to defend the US's actions in the Middle East in general. I was proving a point that they had every right to declare war on Al Qaeda. Please read my posts more carefully in future before wading in to the fray. 2. I provided a link showing evidence of the USA selling weapons to Iran. Once again, read my posts more carefully. 3. Your analogy with Germany is - bluntly - shit, because Germany did not fire the first shots.[/QUOTE] 1. So Israel has every right to declare war on Palestine because of the countless rocket attacks regardless of what has happened in the past? 2. I read your post, it doesn't change the fact that the US did want Iraq to win the war because they supplied them large amounts of weapons, blockaded Iran and ignored all human rights abuses on Iraq's side. 3. Okay so it was entirely Serbia's fault then? [editline]8th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jetblack357;36241466]And again, this is fucking war. People will be caught in the crossfire. Its not good, but it will happen no matter what. [editline]7th June 2012[/editline] I'm pretty sure we've fired missiles into buildings in towns before.[/QUOTE] Fuck off, seriously that is a fucking disgusting thing to say. "oh its collateral damage, shit happens". It is a war that should not have been fought in the first place, these people should not have to die because of some fucktards in the US. Drones do not minimize the chance of civilian deaths, they shouldn't be doing indiscriminate bombings of large areas, and they shouldn't be targeting everyone they see. If all you have to say about civilian deaths is "oh shit happens" then you quite clearly have a mental illness if you are incapable of seeing how horrible that is a thing to say. [editline]8th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Disotrtion;36241577]AQ's always hated us because we're allies with Israel. Salafist Jihad and Sharia law is incompatible with American democracy. AQ was looking for another enemy after the extremists sent the big bad Russians packing. To help you get over your ignorance I wrote you a story. It's called "How Osama & Company Thought They Could Fuck With America, But Instead Got Ass-Fucked" Wordy title? I know. [B]Ch. 1[/B] "Oh look" said Osama, "the USSR has collapsed and America is the sole superpower now. It would be such a victory for Wahhabism and Salafism if I could defeat America in battle too." So little Osama cozied up to his new friend Mullah Omar, the head of the Taliban who offered Osama a safe haven in Afghanistan. [B]Ch. 2[/B] "I should persuade and fund compatriots to attack America while I make plans for attacks of own design." thought Osama, "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing"]I'll tell my good buddy KSM to get right on it[/URL]." Mullah Omar asked Osama what he was doing. "Nothing," Osama said, "go back to oppressing Afghanistan and let me be." [B]Ch. 3[/B] Osama then contacted some of his buddies in Africa. "I heard," Osama said to them, "that the Americans are invading Somalia. Also I heard the the 1994 Rwandan Genocide was planned by the Americans. You should bomb them." His North African buddies were outraged. "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings#cite_note-indictment-25"]Let's bomb American embassies[/URL]!" they shouted. Osama snickered. "Those idiots are going to start my holy war for me. If I'm lucky, America might even try to come and get me here in Afghanistan and I can ruin them like I ruined the USSR." [B]Ch. 4[/B] "Hey," said Osama, "You know what really rustles my jimmies? The US has around 5,000 troops in Saudi Arabia. 5,000 infidels!" However, Osama ignored the fact that the troops were Air-Force personnel by a large margin who were there to defend Saudi Arabia from Iraqi invasion and enforce Operation Southern Watch, while the US ground troops were sent there to train Saudi troops. He also ignored the fact the Saudi leadership approved of the US deployment and that the Saudi rulers were close allies of America, and purchased billions of dollars worth of American weaponry in addition to requesting American military support. "It's an occupation!" Osama stupidly said, "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks"]I can use this to convince uneducated young Saudi's who don't know anything about the US or the US-Saudi relationship to commit senseless violence against innocent Saudi's and American civilians/military personnel while teaching them my radical version of Salafism.[/URL] This is genius." [B]Ch. 5 [/B] "This is awesome! Look at the thousands of infidels dying on live T.V." said Osama. He also heard about 9/11 live on BBC radio, and cheered/shouted with joy. "The best part is they'll come to Afghanistan looking for me, but Mullah Omar will defend me." Just then Mullah Omar called Osama over. "What is it now, Omar?" said Osama. Omar said, "Did your hear about these attacks in NY, Osama?" Osama nodded. "Are you responsible in any way?" asked Mullah Omar. Osama swore to Omar that he was not involved in any way. Then, Osama claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. "What the fuck Osama? You told me you weren't involved in this shit." screamed Omar. "I lied" said Osama "deal with it, bitch." Mullah Omar began sweating a little. "Now America is going to come over here and kick our asses! Get out of Afghanistan you little bitch!" Osama fled to Pakistan where he had friends in the ISI. [B]Ch. 6[/B] So America came and smashed the Taliban apart and eviscerated the Al-Qaeda leadership although a monkey by the name of George W. Bush started another war against the wrong enemy and delayed the US by about a decade, eventually some Navy SEALs found Osama and stuck the barrel of an M-4 up his ass. Mullah Omar ran into Pakistan as well, and his Taliban fell apart and now he's hiding in some rural house/cave whimpering and refusing to show his face. Nowadays the Americans fight mostly against uneducated farmers who are paid $10 by some Paki's to take potshots at Americans or place bombs in the road because they have no education/jobs. But the Taliban and AQ leadership is long gone thanks to USSOCOM and Drones. For some reason America is still in Afghanistan, but nobody can really explain why and everybody can't wait until 2014 when America can leave. Except for Karzai, that whiny bitch is eternally afraid of Iran and especially afraid of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's mustache. THE END.[/QUOTE] I'll point out inaccuracies: Ch.1 Osama hated the US for their placement of troops in Saudi Arabia and because of what they have done in the Middle-East. The Taliban only offered a safe haven to Osama if he paid them large amounts of money. Ch.4 He was also angry that there 500,000 us troops in Saudi Arabia prior to the Gulf War. He hated the Saudi leadership because he believed they were traitors to the middle-east and to his religion. It was in essence an occupation, many clerics and laypeople in Saudi Arabia hated the US presence, but it was all covered up to protect American viewers. Also, you can't seriously believe that the US was there to protect Saudi Arabia from Iraqi invasion? Do you even know why Iraq invaded Kuwait? Do you know what the American government and the UN did to Iraq during the 90's? Ch.6 This is just a general comment on your post. The fuck is wrong with you? Why do you keep spouting this America Fuck Yeah! bullshit, do you not realise how much the US has screwed over the Middle-East? I honestly can understand why Osama was angry.
[QUOTE=Earthen;36244639]1. So Israel has every right to declare war on Palestine because of the countless rocket attacks regardless of what has happened in the past? 2. I read your post, it doesn't change the fact that the US did want Iraq to win the war because they supplied them large amounts of weapons, blockaded Iran and ignored all human rights abuses on Iraq's side. 3. Okay so it was entirely Serbia's fault then?[/QUOTE] 1. Your analogy is once again flawed. You are talking about x attacking z because y attacked x. I am talking about x attacking y because y attacked x. Are you really arguing that it is not right for a country to get pissed and retaliate after an attack that left countless civilians dead (bearing in mind that you are the one who is gushing about how unspeakable it is to even mention the thought of killing civillians)? 2. Ok. But they still sold weapons to Iran. The truth is, the US didn't truly support either side, and I can provide a number of quotes to support this: "As explained by Ed Juchniewicz - Avrakotos's patron and the number two man in the Operations Division at that time - they were just leveling the playing field: "[b]We didn't want either side to have the advantage. We just wanted them to kick the shit out of each other[/b]"." "a former official said that he personally had signed off on a document that shared U.S. satellite intelligence with both Iraq and Iran [b]in an attempt to produce a military stalemate[/b]. "When I signed it, I thought I was losing my mind", the former official told UPI." "The support of Iraq took the form of technological aid, intelligence, the sale of dual-use and military equipment and satellite intelligence to Iraq. While there was direct combat between Iran and the United States, it is not universally agreed that the fighting between the U.S. and Iran was specifically to benefit Iraq, or for separate, although occurring at the same time, issues between the U.S. and Iran. American ambiguity towards which side to support was [b]summed up by Henry Kissinger when the American statesman remarked that "it's a pity they [Iran and Iraq] both can't lose.[/b]" Richard Murphy, the Assistant Secretary of State testified to Congress in 1984 that [b]the Reagan administration believed that a victory for either Iran or Iraq was "neither militarily feasible nor strategically desirable"[/b]." But really, I don't know why I am arguing this point. It's largely irrelevant to my main point. 3.It wasn't Serbia, but a Serbian terrorist group - the Unifcation of Death (AKA the Black Hand) - when they assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary.
Yes, lining your own people up and shooting them is humane right?
MORE MUSLIMS WITH THEIR FUCKING FIGHTING AND BITCHING NUKE THE CUNTS
[QUOTE=David29;36245100]1. Your analogy is once again flawed. You are talking about x attacking z because y attacked x. I am talking about x attacking y because y attacked x. Are you really arguing that it is not right for a country to get pissed and retaliate after an attack that left countless civilians dead (bearing in mind that you are the one who is gushing about how unspeakable it is to even mention the thought of killing civillians)? 2. Ok. But they still sold weapons to Iran. The truth is, the US didn't truly support either side, and I can provide a number of quotes to support this: "As explained by Ed Juchniewicz - Avrakotos's patron and the number two man in the Operations Division at that time - they were just leveling the playing field: "[B]We didn't want either side to have the advantage. We just wanted them to kick the shit out of each other[/B]"." "a former official said that he personally had signed off on a document that shared U.S. satellite intelligence with both Iraq and Iran [B]in an attempt to produce a military stalemate[/B]. "When I signed it, I thought I was losing my mind", the former official told UPI." "The support of Iraq took the form of technological aid, intelligence, the sale of dual-use and military equipment and satellite intelligence to Iraq. While there was direct combat between Iran and the United States, it is not universally agreed that the fighting between the U.S. and Iran was specifically to benefit Iraq, or for separate, although occurring at the same time, issues between the U.S. and Iran. American ambiguity towards which side to support was [B]summed up by Henry Kissinger when the American statesman remarked that "it's a pity they [Iran and Iraq] both can't lose.[/B]" Richard Murphy, the Assistant Secretary of State testified to Congress in 1984 that [B]the Reagan administration believed that a victory for either Iran or Iraq was "neither militarily feasible nor strategically desirable"[/B]." But really, I don't know why I am arguing this point. It's largely irrelevant to my main point. 3.It wasn't Serbia, but a Serbian terrorist group - the Unifcation of Death (AKA the Black Hand) - when they assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary.[/QUOTE] Certainly the country has every right to be angry, and I never once said that 9/11 wasn't a tragedy and a crime against humanity. However, the country does not have the right to simply jump right in and start blowing up people's homes. The country needs to listen to the reason for the attack, not just bomb people's homes because then you are no better than the terrorists. The country has a right to defend itself, but not with force. Was Nazi Germany justified in starting Kristallnacht because some guy killed an embassy official? Was Britain justified in killing innocents because of IRA bombings? Was Britain justified in attacking american colonists because of the independence movement? Al-Qaeda is an organisation, not a fucking country the rules are different. Also, seriously, 'gushing about how unspeakable it is to even mention the thought of killing civillians' is just sad. Are you telling me that killing civilians is okay? Isn't that a bit hypocritical. Otherwise we could say that the civilian deaths on 9/11 were just unfortunate because what if Al-Qaeda's main target had been the towers? They didn't sell weapons to Iran on the same scale and the US still condemned multiple human rights violations by Iran while leaving Iraq's record 'intact'. However, I acknowledge that they wanted both sides to just sit there shooting at each other and thank you for providing those quotes. Alright then that analogy failed, but what about Palestine and Israel? Surely, according to your logic, Palestine is entirely to blame for the attacks because they fired the first rockets (Initifada).
US is big and powerful, it writes it's own rules because there is no one to prosecute or judge them.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;36227259]did the article say that the guy behind interviewed was a member of al qaeda? i might have missed in there but i'm pretty sure he's just the brother of someone who was in al qaeda.[/QUOTE] please no critical thinking, that's not allowed on FP
Ok, so we got drones. It's still not as bad as their suicide bombings and car bombings, Killing their own people.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;36247249]Ok, so we got drones. It's still not as bad as their suicide bombings and car bombings, Killing their own people.[/QUOTE] it doesn't matter whether it's a native or a US citizen that dies, that's still a dead guy and it's still directly because of the drones
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