[QUOTE=thisispain;39046610]i agree with that guy who said that ME's themes just became a mess
when you read a good book or watch a good movie you usually have an idea of what the people who made it were trying to accomplish or at least say, even in the case of Do The Right Thing where it's a curve ball.
at the end of ME i was seriously confused at what the point of it all was[/QUOTE]
spec ops did that
and spec ops was really, really, really good
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;39046839]spec ops did that
and spec ops was really, really, really good[/QUOTE]
Good story maybe, gameplay was rather dull.
Unless of course you subscribe to the theory that the gameplay was made intentionally bad and therefore is immune to criticism as an attempt by the developers to make a meta-statement on the state of video game violence, particularly in the modern military shooter theater.
I don't subscribe to that theory though.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;39046839]spec ops did that
and spec ops was really, really, really good[/QUOTE]
uhm
maybe it was just me but spec ops was one of those games i enjoyed reading and learning about more than playing
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;39046839]spec ops did that
and spec ops was really, really, really good[/QUOTE]
spec ops had some nice ideas, but a lot of them were let down by less than mediocre gameplay and really forced shock moments
[QUOTE=The golden;39043686]Dishonered, in my opinion, was a huge waste of potential. It had pretty looks, good environments and plot, but it did not dip into its advertised mechanics very well. Springrazor-rat and bullet-self-kill-possesion were two advertised moves you can do. In reality they are the ONLY things you can do. Things like springrazors are of extremely limited use because the game punishes you for being lethal. The vast majority of Corvo's arsenal is lethal - using any of it to any extent will give you the shit ending. [sp] Although in my opinion both endings were shit due to how they were handled. The outsider is fucking boring and makes a horrible narrator.[/sp] Other issues I have is that many of the characters are flat and dull or have really awkward or stilted dialogue. Exploration isn't as fulfilling as some people make it out to be. It's very often just a hidden closet with a rune or charm in it. Levels, while expansive, only really had one or two routes which are actually viable - later levels had even less.[/QUOTE]
I disagree, I thought the gameplay was highly fluid and interactive. The combat was fun, it didn't feel like it interrupted the stealth gameplay, more that it merged successfully with it. I'd stealth my way past a few guys, turn a corner and fuck up, but stab the guy in the neck and blink around a few corners before his friends have the chance to pick up on what's going on. Or sometimes when they lose track of me I'd use it to my advantage and engage them again with the element of surprise. And honestly you do not have to avoid killing people [I]that[/I] much to get the good ending. On the last level I literally slaughtered just about every other guy I ran into if I couldn't blink/slowmo/possess my way past them. And the idea of combining the mechanics works for all the powers, rat-trap and suicide-bullet are just the fancy combos. It's a lot more useful to just pop a few in the face with your own pistol, use one of the other more damaging powers in your arsenel, or just slip away when the enemy's reaction time is completely removed or lowered drastically. You don't have to stop and fight every time someone notices you, you usually have a wide variety of environmental options, and not to mention blink can allow you to simply get behind them and keep moving forward through the level most of the time. I didn't really use possession that much, I kind of wish wish they would've let you do more than open doors when possessing a human. I would've liked the idea of jumping into someone and using whatever they had to my advantage (the tall-boys, for instance). They could've just had it run down your mana or something if you attacked as them (so you couldn't jump in and out of people while also using their weapons and health bars to your advantage), or made it cost a lot more to do a completely coherent possession rather than drunkenly puttering about and opening things/pressing buttons.
I think Bioware forgot that they're RPG devs first and foremost and have obligations to not fuck up the stories in their universes. When the third game relies on the first two you really really really shouldn't fuck up the story.
And does this reviewer get payed? You shouldn't be allowed to work for PC gamer without a gaming PC. Common sense. I thought PC Gamer would understand this.
[QUOTE=thisispain;39046610]i agree with that guy who said that ME's themes just became a mess
when you read a good book or watch a good movie you usually have an idea of what the people who made it were trying to accomplish or at least say, even in the case of Do The Right Thing where it's a curve ball.
at the end of ME i was seriously confused at what the point of it all was[/QUOTE]
Something that bothered the hell out of me was the tone shift. After they realized how awesome LOTSB was, they were like "We should do fanservice all of the time". Case in point, the return of Conrad. Now he's back and look out, he's pointing out all of the plot holes, isn't that funny eh? Ohoho he's pointed out that thermal clips don't make sense, as well as other little things.
No, it stops being funny when all of the plotholes are laid out bare, no, it just makes your own writing look really, really weak. The whole game feels like that.
[QUOTE=The golden;39043686]Dishonered, in my opinion, was a huge waste of potential. It had pretty looks, good environments and plot, but it did not dip into its advertised mechanics very well. Springrazor-rat and bullet-self-kill-possesion were two advertised moves you can do. In reality they are the ONLY things you can do. Things like springrazors are of extremely limited use because the game punishes you for being lethal. The vast majority of Corvo's arsenal is lethal - using any of it to any extent will give you the shit ending. [sp] Although in my opinion both endings were shit due to how they were handled. The outsider is fucking boring and makes a horrible narrator.[/sp] Other issues I have is that many of the characters are flat and dull or have really awkward or stilted dialogue. Exploration isn't as fulfilling as some people make it out to be. It's very often just a hidden closet with a rune or charm in it. Levels, while expansive, only really had one or two routes which are actually viable - later levels had even less.[/QUOTE]
Honestly. No.
The combat allows you to do anything. I played on the highest difficulty and used nothing but my knife, blink, and my gun on occasion, all the way to the end of the game, and I won very easily. You can hack and slash through opposition incredibly easily if you're fast enough.
You can also be very creative and very dangerous if you choose to, you can be completely invisible and one of the true critiques of the game is that stealth isn't serious enough. you can fail a stealth encounter and just turn into slaughter mode at the drop of a hat.
The story is also a bit of a different thing. it's nothing spectacular but you have tools in your belt(the heart) that reveal a great deal about the world, the story, the characters that presents the story in a unique and interesting way.
[video=youtube;u3vsXDJ9kCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3vsXDJ9kCE[/video]
Like this. This is insane and awesome and proof of just some of the possibilities the combat has.
[QUOTE=seroyal223;39043249]I have to [B]seriously[/B] disagree, I think Mass Effect is the most overrated franchise of the generation if not ever. But to each their own[/QUOTE]
It's also unpolished piece of shit, shit story, and rushed like fuck.
It deserves a trashbin.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;39047190]Honestly. No.
The combat allows you to do anything. I played on the highest difficulty and used nothing but my knife, blink, and my gun on occasion, all the way to the end of the game, and I won very easily. You can hack and slash through opposition incredibly easily if you're fast enough.
You can also be very creative and very dangerous if you choose to, you can be completely invisible and one of the true critiques of the game is that stealth isn't serious enough. you can fail a stealth encounter and just turn into slaughter mode at the drop of a hat.
The story is also a bit of a different thing. it's nothing spectacular but you have tools in your belt(the heart) that reveal a great deal about the world, the story, the characters that presents the story in a unique and interesting way.
[video=youtube;u3vsXDJ9kCE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3vsXDJ9kCE[/video]
Like this. This is insane and awesome and proof of just some of the possibilities the combat has.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but when you play it that way you get through the game so bloody fast.
I actually just finished Mass Effect 3 tonight, after having it since day one.
It was a good game and doesn't deserve ALL the hate it's getting, but it feels SEVERELY lacking in a lot of different ways. My GOTY goes to The Walking Dead, or Xcom personally.
[B]I fucking love[/B] all the ME's and don't understand why everybody hates ME's. The only thing that worried me was, of course, the ending, but the Extended Cut has a place in my heart now, really. Mass Effect series are one of the best games ever, and ME3 deserves a GOTY, [U]for me[/U].
[I]Now you can throw boxes at me.[/I]
[QUOTE=RocketRacer;39047583][B]I fucking love[/B] all the ME's and don't understand why everybody hates ME's. The only thing that worried me was, of course, the ending, but the Extended Cut has a place in my heart now, really. Mass Effect series are one of the best games ever, and ME3 deserves a GOTY, [U]for me[/U].
[I]Now you can throw boxes at me.[/I][/QUOTE]
People aren't saying that they 'hate' Mass Effect, but rather that each iteration of the series is flawed in some ways, with Mass Effect 3 having the majority of it. I have to agree, despite thinking the trilogy as a whole is excellent.
Though I do think people saying that "your choices didn't matter at all" are being a little bit unfair. I'll grant you that the pre-Extended Cut endings threw everything you've ever done into a dustbin (with the Extended Cut admittedly doing only a serviceable job, still not great), but the Tuchanga and Rannoch missions reflected past decisions better than damn near anywhere else in the series, save for the Suicide Mission at the end of Mass Effect 2, which I maintain is right up on the border of flawless.
Speaking of endings, I wonder if there's still any Indoctrination Theorists still waiting for Bioware to unveil that it's been a hoax all along.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;39047658]Though I do think people saying that "your choices didn't matter at all" are being a little bit unfair.[/QUOTE]
I think this comes from two main choices, 1 each from the previous two games, which at the time felt like major choices that would have big consequences in the future.
The first is the Rachni queen from ME1. Choosing to save her gave the impression that she would lead her children against the Reapers later on. You even hear about this in ME2 through an Asari who is working with or controlled by the Rachni (I don't remember exactly if she was willing).
The second is your choice in re-writing the heretics in ME2. Either adding to the Geth numbers or diminishing them. Legion gives you the impression that his Geth will stand against the Reapers as well, at some future date.
Neither of these 2 choices really matter in ME3. The story is relatively the same no matter which choices you made. You get some different dialog and stuff, sure, but either way you find and are forced to fight reaper controlled Rachni and reaper controlled Geth. And then how you deal with those 2 new situations hardly effects the final outcome, other than to give you more of those points.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;39047658]People aren't saying that they 'hate' Mass Effect, but rather that each iteration of the series is flawed in some ways, with Mass Effect 3 having the majority of it. I have to agree, despite thinking the trilogy as a whole is excellent.
Though I do think people saying that "your choices didn't matter at all" are being a little bit unfair. I'll grant you that the pre-Extended Cut endings threw everything you've ever done into a dustbin (with the Extended Cut admittedly doing only a serviceable job, still not great), but the Tuchanga and Rannoch missions reflected past decisions better than damn near anywhere else in the series, save for the Suicide Mission at the end of Mass Effect 2, which I maintain is right up on the border of flawless.[/QUOTE]
But it's missing SO much. It really glances over most major decisions, and quite a few minor ones when it could have set up some interesting changes in the universe that you have to live with. What they did was almost "sameify" every decision tree down to existing in a very similar set of universes.
I know why they did this, they're afraid of making content that only a certain small perecentage of players see, but that's a bullshit excuse in my opinion.
If a series says it's going to branch the story, it better god damn do it rather than what ME3 led to.
[editline]31st December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=stupid07er;39048026]I think this comes from two main choices, 1 each from the previous two games, which at the time felt like major choices that would have big consequences in the future.
The first is the Rachni queen from ME1. Choosing to save her gave the impression that she would lead her children against the Reapers later on. You even hear about this in ME2 through an Asari who is working with or controlled by the Rachni (I don't remember exactly if she was willing).
The second is your choice in re-writing the heretics in ME2. Either adding to the Geth numbers or diminishing them. Legion gives you the impression that his Geth will stand against the Reapers as well, at some future date.
Neither of these 2 choices really matter in ME3. The story is relatively the same no matter which choices you made. You get some different dialog and stuff, sure, but either way you find and are forced to fight reaper controlled Rachni and reaper controlled Geth. And then how you deal with those 2 new situations hardly effects the final outcome, other than to give you more of those points.[/QUOTE]
basically this.
I'm guessing they found themselves overwhelmed with the amount of choices they had put into the first 2 games and knew they'd be adding even more in the 3rd, and had to find ways to eliminate the need to produce hours and hours of content that would rarely get used. It's just a flaw in the medium though, unless they had unlimited funding there was just no way around it. So I don't fault Bioware too much for it, even if it does make me sad.
No matter what choices you make and what war assets you collect, not much changes in the Earth battle.
For all the time you spend recruiting people to join your fight to take back Earth, you never actually see them in action once you start. They might pop up in that one non action scene, but you never see them fight. It ends up feeling like there was no point in doing any of that outside of maybe one or two cutscenes. There's no huge changes in the battle if you, say, recruited the turian bombers, nor does anything of particular significance happen if you decide to pick the salarians over the krogan. It's pretty much completely the same in most parts. Then, of course, there's the ending and there's not much variation in that either, but that topic has been talked about ALOT, so I'll spare the details.
For a game that's primarily advertised over how much your choices matter, this is a huge problem.
Yep. People found loads of unused dialogue files suggesting that, if you allied with the Geth, they were fighting alongside you, both in the space battle, and on the ground. Ditto for Volus and other species.
[QUOTE=stupid07er;39048026]I think this comes from two main choices, 1 each from the previous two games, which at the time felt like major choices that would have big consequences in the future.
The first is the Rachni queen from ME1. Choosing to save her gave the impression that she would lead her children against the Reapers later on. You even hear about this in ME2 through an Asari who is working with or controlled by the Rachni (I don't remember exactly if she was willing).
The second is your choice in re-writing the heretics in ME2. Either adding to the Geth numbers or diminishing them. Legion gives you the impression that his Geth will stand against the Reapers as well, at some future date.
Neither of these 2 choices really matter in ME3. The story is relatively the same no matter which choices you made. You get some different dialog and stuff, sure, but either way you find and are forced to fight reaper controlled Rachni and reaper controlled Geth. And then how you deal with those 2 new situations hardly effects the final outcome, other than to give you more of those points.[/QUOTE]
I agree that the Rachni Queen nonsense was a heaping helping of bullshit, no doubt. The rewritten geth though...I have yet to make my decision on that one. On the one hand, it's extremely cheap writing to put them back on the side of the Reapers in ME3 no matter what, but on the other it actually can have an effect on the outcome up of the Quarian/Geth conflict. The Rannoch sequence used that "7 point" criteria or something to that effect and the decisions you make in ME2 and ME3 can work with each other to determine if you can make peace with both races or if you need to choose between one or the other. While that particular choice might have been handled poorly, the way it integrates into the greater subplot is pretty cool.
With the Rannoch arc, I really only have two major gripes:
1) Both the quarians and the geth go full retard by getting into an all-out war with each other (desperation is a weak justification when Reapers are in town).
2) Legion dies no matter what, and he dies for no real reason other than "If you liked him, here's a right-hook to your heart."
What pissed me off the most on Rannoch is that after all the time in the computer simulation, where Legion details about how all their wars, they were on the defensive the whole time, just wanting to survive. And when it comes down to it, he chooses to full on eradicate the Quarians. It's a total 180 from his previous argument. It pissed me off. I sided with the Quarians. [sp]Legion flipped out and attacked me, but I couldn't do the renegade action. He was too awesome.[/sp]
I'm in the process of rewriting ME3 entirely. I feel that my script makes the game much better.
I removed the entire godchild thing and added many variations to the end of the game that includes Hammer making it to the citadel unscathed with a high enough EMS.
Oh and Anderson is now a squadmate with Major Coats taking over the Earh operations.
Mass Effect 3 is mechanicaly sound and it deals with subjects that I love.
But never, never, has a game filled me with such a profound sense of disappointment upon conclusion. The ending was a monumental bummer in every way.
[QUOTE=Ridge;39048283]What pissed me off the most on Rannoch is that after all the time in the computer simulation, where Legion details about how all their wars, they were on the defensive the whole time, just wanting to survive. And when it comes down to it, he chooses to full on eradicate the Quarians. It's a total 180 from his previous argument. It pissed me off. I sided with the Quarians. [sp]Legion flipped out and attacked me, but I couldn't do the renegade action. He was too awesome.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Actually, I don't think that's entirely out of character. While it was not explicitly stated, the Geth likely came to a consensus that, if the quarians would not agree to a cease-fire, then the Quarian species would need to effectively be wiped out in order to guarantee the survival of Geth because it would show that the Quarians are unwilling to compromise.
PCG used to be cool, and Tom Francis seemed like a cool guy. Nowadays they've gone down the shitter and I'm glad I didn't renew my subscription.
ME3 had two absolutely stunning scenarios with the Quarian and the Cerberus base assault scenarios.
And then there's the rest of the game. It wasn't a bad game it was just disappointing... very disappointing.
Nah the suicide run was fucking amazing, if mis-treated a bit, considering harbinger's presence
[QUOTE=RocketRacer;39047583][B]I fucking love[/B] all the ME's and don't understand why everybody hates ME's. The only thing that worried me was, of course, the ending, but the Extended Cut has a place in my heart now, really. Mass Effect series are one of the best games ever, and ME3 deserves a GOTY, [U]for me[/U].
[I]Now you can throw boxes at me.[/I][/QUOTE]
This, While ME3 was the worst Mass effect game yet, I still enjoyed it and I'm still playing it and I'm on my 4th runthrough.
Mass effect 1 & 2 I've probably played about 500 hours together, The series is probably my fav series of all time along with Baldurs gate.
Mass effect 1 had amazing story and dialogue but pretty bad combat, Mass effect 2 fixed the combat problem but didn't have an amazing story (Still good though)
Despite the flaws and horrible things in ME3 (Looking at you 2D characters, 256x256 texture characters, animations made by a 3 year old, idiotic characters) I still believe it should be ranked among the good games this year. (Or well ,last year now.)
The reason why ME3 is the worst/has problems/shit narrative?
BioWare let Mac Walters be the lead writer.
That is all.
[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;39048571]The reason why ME3 is the worst/has problems/shit narrative?
BioWare let Mac Walters be the lead writer.
That is all.[/QUOTE]
Mac Walters was credited as the lead writer on Mass Effect 2 as well, and that game is pretty well regarded. Yeah, he can't write an intriguing MAIN plot with much depth (or logic, as ME3 demonstrated), but I'm not going to blame the faults of the game solely on a single person. I'm willing to blame Casey Hudson and Mac Walters for the problems with the ending because it was between the two of them only. Lead writer or not, Mac Walters still works with a committee of writers and they all have to come to an agreement on where the plot is going.
Hell, the main plot writing isn't the only problem in Mass Effect 3. The visuals took a step down from ME2 in many respects, the animations were unpolished in many segments (though oddly it also had some of the best animation in the entire series. See Grunt's battle royale with the Rachni or the slow-mo FUCK YOU to Kai Leng for a good example), assets were reused, fetch quests ahoy...it suffers in quite a few areas. Still a good game, but flawed, and we can't lay all the blame on the writing.
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