Newfoundland Driving School to Stop Teaching Stick Shift - Polidicks

People who feel superior because they drive a stick shift are full of themselves. I drive a Ford Mustang and I get shit [I]all the time[/I] for driving an automatic v6 instead of the 5.0.

Since I am living in Europe, I felt it was silly to NOT learn how to drive stick, since that is the norm over here.

[QUOTE=FordLord;48026689]Few things; 7. Any time I have had a battery die is where it couldn't be push started. [/QUOTE] If you've had this experience, you've probably had an actual battery completely die. The amount of times I've had a push started car is ridiculous, particularly with aging batteries in winter. Another big benefit manuals have is in tight vert/parallel parking in small lots where it's common practice to park double. If you have a manual, you just let it standing without locking in a speed or handbrake, with an auto, the car is completely immobile. [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;48063028]Then I guess this is just a sign the rest of the world needs to start accepting automatics.[/QUOTE] The world has no problem accepting automatics. It's just that they're generally more expensive, have higher maintenance costs and will break down more often. It's for these reasons why you'll see automatics in higher end cars luxury cars rather than standard cars.

[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;48064471]I know how to drive manual and it hasn't helped me at all yet, my car being an automatic and all lol[/QUOTE] In my case, when I got ahold of an "automatic" car, I kept pretending I was pushing an imaginary clutch with my left foot, while driving the car with just my right foot. The person who borrowed it to me is used to drive using both feet (left for brake, right for throttle)... it kinda made me cringe for a moment. :/ [editline]27th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DeEz;48065419]Since I am living in Europe, I felt it was silly to NOT learn how to drive stick, since that is the norm over here.[/QUOTE] Same around here, in most of Latin America. Automatic gearboxes are a premium item that not too many people -even those who can afford it- choose. We just prefer rowing our own gears.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48066402]The person who borrowed it to me is used to drive using both feet (left for brake, right for throttle)... it kinda made me cringe for a moment.[/QUOTE] That's legitimately dangerous, I'm not even kidding. it's too easy to break when you don't want to. I was specifically taught in driving school never to do that. makes me cringe too

[QUOTE=MIPS;48063093]This wouldn't of been an SH thread if I didn't at least seed the debate. :v:[/QUOTE] I rated the choice to stop teaching stick dumb, not you. But of course I cannot speak for everyone.

[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;48064955]People who feel superior because they drive a stick shift are full of themselves. I drive a Ford Mustang and I get shit [I]all the time[/I] for driving an automatic v6 instead of the 5.0.[/QUOTE] Hah, you bought a V6 Mustang Top Tip: People aren't giving you shit because it's an automatic. [QUOTE=hexpunK;48034362]Autos are fine you babies. I learned to drive in a manual, I enjoyed driving in a manual. But if I just want to get from A to B, I don't really care too much about having to remember to shift and junk. Especially on a longer journey.[/QUOTE] [I]Having to remember to shift?[/I] I don't think you actually have learned to drive manual in more than a theoretical level. And in a "long journey" you're just gonna be on the motorway most of the bloody time anyway, in top gear. [editline]29th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=sltungle;48062462]Driving [I]shouldn't[/I] be 'zero thought', though, and that attitude is part of the reason why I feel like so many people are shitty drivers. Everyone I know who drives a manual is way more alert and is looking far further into the distance than their automatic counterparts. People driving manual usually want to avoid coming to a hard stop if possible and as a result seem to be far more alert of things like traffic lights and events happening further down the road because they'd much rather gradually slow down and avoid coming to a total stop than getting within 50 feet of lights or a crash and then suddenly realise they need to come to a stop. Usually removing the human element from any endeavor is beneficial and only increases safety, but with cars we're yet to totally remove the human element and instead have only removed the elements which serve to increase concentration. It's counterproductive to safety.[/QUOTE] This is true and something I've felt for a long time. I'm not sure I could have worded it better myself. Driving manual forces you to be more engaged with what you're doing. Sure, it becomes second nature very fast, but your body still has to feel the things and hear the sounds. Thinking this is a bad thing is idiotic. The more concentrated you are, the better, and automatics are, in an inherent manner, less promoting of concentration. I feel like studies should be made in this regard.

i don't drive stick because there is nobody to teach it to me and the one time my uncle tried to teach it to me i cried

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;48062261]Why is this getting so many dumbs? Manual had it's time, but automatic is simply easier and more accessible, just let it go.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;48063028]Then I guess this is just a sign the rest of the world needs to start accepting automatics.[/QUOTE] Why, because you will it? What a load of bollocks. [editline]29th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48066402]The person who borrowed it to me is used to drive using both feet (left for brake, right for throttle)... it kinda made me cringe for a moment. :/[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=FingerSpazem;48066987]That's legitimately dangerous, I'm not even kidding. it's too easy to break when you don't want to. I was specifically taught in driving school never to do that. makes me cringe too[/QUOTE] ...I'm not sure what your problem with left foot braking is. It's not "too easy to brake when you don't want to", you're not supposed to be hovering with your foot over the brake anyway. Go drive a racing car or hell, just any kart without left foot braking. You can do it, of course, but it's not the quickest way. Pretty much all F1 drivers brake with their left foot and you never hear about them accidentally braking. If someone can do it, they can do it. There's nothing inherently wrong with braking with your left foot. Driving schools can teach you bollocks as well. Like "hurr you should always engine brake along with normal braking when coming up to a red light to save wear on the brake pads". Good lord, why. Why would you unnecessarily wear out the components like that. Brake pads are fucking cheap to replace, transmissions? Not so much.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48074831]There's nothing inherently wrong with braking with your left foot.[/QUOTE] There's one major issue that comes from that, though it only would happen with someone who occasionally needs to drive a manual like my mom. Since they're so used to breaking with their left foot using a clutch is very unintuitive. Specifically taking off from a stoplight or such will be an issue since they can't really let up off the break and then let the clutch out like they should. This will be a bigger issue when taking off on hills too.

I drove a manual van as a courier driver. I would eat, shift and read my schedule all at once. I only crashed a [B]few[/B] times. Wouldn't have it any other way.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48024964]I always liked shifting on a motorcycle more than a car. It was so much nicer with it being sequential. Anybody know why cars aren't like that?[/QUOTE] A motorcycle gearbox has almost the exact same shifting arrangement as a car: the gears are constantly meshed, and a set of shift forks slides and engages dogs to lock the driven gear to the output shaft. A motorbike is sequential because the forks are operated by a rotary cam that you click around, rather than pushing on them directly with a lever (shifter). You can see the cam and shift fork here: [IMG]http://jaw.iinet.net.au/motorbike/gearsdrum2.jpg[/IMG] Compare and contrast with this car transmission: [IMG]http://www.zigcdn.com/media/zigtech/2013/Aug/shift-fork.jpg[/IMG] The other main difference between bike and car gearboxes is that bikes don't have synchromesh (unless it's a very heavy cruiser), because the box is light enough that you can just jam the dogteeth into place and it won't break too much. Bikes also have straight-cut gears instead of helical-cut, for reasons I forget.

[QUOTE=r0b0tsquid;48076023]A motorcycle gearbox has almost the exact same shifting arrangement as a car: the gears are constantly meshed, and a set of shift forks slides and engages dogs to lock the driven gear to the output shaft. A motorbike is sequential because the forks are operated by a rotary cam that you click around, rather than pushing on them directly with a lever (shifter). You can see the cam and shift fork here: [IMG]http://jaw.iinet.net.au/motorbike/gearsdrum2.jpg[/IMG] Compare and contrast with this car transmission: [IMG]http://www.zigcdn.com/media/zigtech/2013/Aug/shift-fork.jpg[/IMG] The other main difference between bike and car gearboxes is that bikes don't have synchromesh (unless it's a very heavy cruiser), because the box is light enough that you can just jam the dogteeth into place and it won't break too much. Bikes also have straight-cut gears instead of helical-cut, for reasons I forget.[/QUOTE] iirc the straight-cut gears are because of higher durability and perhaps lower cost, but they are louder (think of the sound the gearbox in your car makes when you reverse, because reverse is usually straight-cut). Motorbikes are loud enough as is so the sound of straight-cut gears doesn't matter, but of course that's not acceptable for road cars. Racing cars do use straight-cut gears though.

The main thing that keeps me from driving stick is (besides the fact that I don't know anyone who owns a car with manual) that its just seems intimidating. It feels like there are a bunch of different ways you can break your car if you make a mistake and don't do things the right way. I'll give what I assume is a pretty extreme example: A few weeks ago I was helping out with some yard work and my brother decided to teach me how to drive our lawnmower, an ancient John Deere that we've had for as long as I can remember. To start it you had to: 1)Hold down the brake 2)Flip up and hold some orange switch. 3)Crank it. 4)As soon as it cranks, flip the switch down (make sure to flip it down far enough or you'll flood the engine or something) 5)Release parking brake. I would hope manuals aren't quite [I]that[/I] complicated, but my point is I just like to be able to stick the key in and crank and be ready to go. There is also what i mentioned earlier about being afraid that making a mistake will break stuff. Take this quote from earlier in the thread: [QUOTE=TestECull;48025157]8: You'll have less requests to use your car, and the ones you do get can be easily denied by 'I don't want my clutch destroyed, so no'.[/QUOTE] I don't want to have to worry about destroying anything just trying to drive a car. All of that said, I do recognize the benefits of knowing how to drive stick. I just wish people didn't have high-horse attitudes about it whenever the subject comes up.

[QUOTE=crazymonkay;48080320]Stuff[/QUOTE] Can send me a PM if you want and I'll try to answer any manual questions for you.

[QUOTE=sltungle;48062462]Driving [I]shouldn't[/I] be 'zero thought', though, and that attitude is part of the reason why I feel like so many people are shitty drivers. Everyone I know who drives a manual is way more alert and is looking far further into the distance than their automatic counterparts. People driving manual usually want to avoid coming to a hard stop if possible and as a result seem to be far more alert of things like traffic lights and events happening further down the road because they'd much rather gradually slow down and avoid coming to a total stop than getting within 50 feet of lights or a crash and then suddenly realise they need to come to a stop. Usually removing the human element from any endeavor is beneficial and only increases safety, but with cars we're yet to totally remove the human element and instead have only removed the elements which serve to increase concentration. It's counterproductive to safety.[/QUOTE] Okay 'zero thought' is pretty janky wording on my part. I mostly mean the actual process of operating the vehicle becomes 'zero thought'. I don't have to think about when I should be shifting, or making sure the the clutch is at biting point before trying to perform a hill start. I can just release the brake, step on the gas and the engine handles it all for me. For day to day driving I much preferred that. If I want to have fun and explore a bit when driving I do prefer a manual. But I don't give a single fuck at 8AM when trying to get to work. I want more attention on the road around me rather than on operating the car.

The problem with that is that when you drive manual long enough, you get used to it, and it all becomes automatic to you, the driver.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48082862]Okay 'zero thought' is pretty janky wording on my part. I mostly mean the actual process of operating the vehicle becomes 'zero thought'. I don't have to think about when I should be shifting, or making sure the the clutch is at biting point before trying to perform a hill start. I can just release the brake, step on the gas and the engine handles it all for me. For day to day driving I much preferred that. If I want to have fun and explore a bit when driving I do prefer a manual. But I don't give a single fuck at 8AM when trying to get to work. I want more attention on the road around me rather than on operating the car.[/QUOTE] You attempted to correct yourself but just ended up repeating the same nonsense you've said previously. You're implying any thought process happens when you're doing these things. You don't have to pay attention to drive manual at all. No, there is no "disagree" here, Starlight.

I'd love to drive a stick but living in Massachusetts and dealing with rush-hour traffic on the highway every day, combined with low resale values... yeah no.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48082862]Okay 'zero thought' is pretty janky wording on my part. I mostly mean the actual process of operating the vehicle becomes 'zero thought'. I don't have to think about when I should be shifting, or making sure the the clutch is at biting point before trying to perform a hill start. I can just release the brake, step on the gas and the engine handles it all for me. For day to day driving I much preferred that. If I want to have fun and explore a bit when driving I do prefer a manual. But I don't give a single fuck at 8AM when trying to get to work. I want more attention on the road around me rather than on operating the car.[/QUOTE] If anything I'd argue it should be the other way around. The amount of stupid accidents I've seen take place during rush hour is phenomenal, and most of it is because people are either, 1) Being fucking stupid and/or impatient; 2) Not fucking paying any attention to the god damn road (which usually fixes itself when you get into a manual because all of a sudden you have to pay attention or you're going to wind up stalling the car).

I drove stick only once in a Toyota Hilux, it was pleasant to have control over the vehicle. However it's pretty much a hassle in high-traffic area, so I stick with my Civic.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48074831] ...I'm not sure what your problem with left foot braking is. It's not "too easy to brake when you don't want to", you're not supposed to be hovering with your foot over the brake anyway. Go drive a racing car or hell, just any kart without left foot braking. You can do it, of course, but it's not the quickest way. Pretty much all F1 drivers brake with their left foot and you never hear about them accidentally braking. If someone can do it, they can do it. There's nothing inherently wrong with braking with your left foot. Driving schools can teach you bollocks as well. Like "hurr you should always engine brake along with normal braking when coming up to a red light to save wear on the brake pads". Good lord, why. Why would you unnecessarily wear out the components like that. Brake pads are fucking cheap to replace, transmissions? Not so much.[/QUOTE] You're misinfomed. First, engine braking is done to up the efficiency of your driving, not to lessen wear on the brakes. Two, engine braking won't cause abnormal wear on the transmission.

[QUOTE=demoguy08;48092295]You're misinfomed. First, engine braking is done to up the efficiency of your driving, not to lessen wear on the brakes. Two, engine braking won't cause abnormal wear on the transmission.[/QUOTE] When I was in driving school, that's what they told me, that it was about the brakes. As for wearing components abnormally, I do believe it does. You are slowing down a >1.5 ton mass moving at high speeds using components not made for that effect. That's what the brakes are for. Sure, it's standard procedure for truck drivers, but truckers use a jake break which is different than the typical buffoon jamming his car into first as he approaches a stop sign.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48090682]You attempted to correct yourself but just ended up repeating the same nonsense you've said previously. You're implying any thought process happens when you're doing these things. You don't have to pay attention to drive manual at all.[/QUOTE] yo I know how driving a manual works. It becomes almost second nature sure. But in the mornings, when I genuinely could not give a single FUCK as to operating the extra pedal and I just want a nice easy "press button to go" ride to work, an auto is going to win out every. single. time. And this is based on me driving a fucking Smart ForTwo, as in, one of the shittiest autos known to mankind due to the massive power lag it gets when shifting at not quite the right speeds (thanks computer, I wanna shift into 4th when I'm going 25) A lot of people do not drive to have fun, and in the right circumstances I am one of them. Them opting to drive an auto is not a mark against them or anything fucking asinine like that and you really need to pull the stick (heh) out of your ass if you're going to give every auto driver shit. Learning to drive nothing but autos? Not the smartest move sure. Not driving a manual because you opted to drive an auto? Who even gives a single fuck?

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48096968]yo I know how driving a manual works. It becomes almost second nature sure. But in the mornings, when I genuinely could not give a single FUCK as to operating the extra pedal and I just want a nice easy "press button to go" ride to work, an auto is going to win out every. single. time. And this is based on me driving a fucking Smart ForTwo, as in, one of the shittiest autos known to mankind due to the massive power lag it gets when shifting at not quite the right speeds (thanks computer, I wanna shift into 4th when I'm going 25) A lot of people do not drive to have fun, and in the right circumstances I am one of them. Them opting to drive an auto is not a mark against them or anything fucking asinine like that and you really need to pull the stick (heh) out of your ass if you're going to give every auto driver shit. Learning to drive nothing but autos? Not the smartest move sure. Not driving a manual because you opted to drive an auto? Who even gives a single fuck?[/QUOTE] I have to drive every day too, I do not understand your frustration with "operating an extra pedal" unless you drive through heavy traffic very frequently. If you do, fine, whatever. I'm not trying to do an auto driver witch hunt here, I'm not the one saying "auto is for pussies", I just don't like people saying falsehoods, also known as "bollocks". You implied that though process goes into driving a manual after you're used to it and that it takes concentration away from the road and into operating the car, and that is bollocks.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48097029]I have to drive every day too, I do not understand your frustration with "operating an extra pedal" unless you drive through heavy traffic very frequently. If you do, fine, whatever. I'm not trying to do an auto driver witch hunt here, I'm not the one saying "auto is for pussies", I just don't like people saying falsehoods, also known as "bollocks". You implied that though process goes into driving a manual after you're used to it and that it takes concentration away from the road and into operating the car, and that is bollocks.[/QUOTE] Driving in cities is a good enough reason to not want to operate the clutch constantly tbh. That shit actually gets uncomfortable when you're having to press it damn near every 5 seconds. Traffic is the worst in any car, at least an auto can make it a bit bearable.

Is having to alternate between the brakes and accelerator in heavy traffic also uncomfortable?

[QUOTE=Apache249;48097293]Is having to alternate between the brakes and accelerator in heavy traffic also uncomfortable?[/QUOTE] Somewhat, yes.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;48096806]When I was in driving school, that's what they told me, that it was about the brakes. As for wearing components abnormally, I do believe it does. You are slowing down a >1.5 ton mass moving at high speeds using components not made for that effect. That's what the brakes are for. Sure, it's standard procedure for truck drivers, but truckers use a jake break which is different than the typical buffoon jamming his car into first as he approaches a stop sign.[/QUOTE] You're also using same components to accelerate the same mass, usually even faster.

[QUOTE=opaali;48097834]You're also using same components to accelerate the same mass, usually even faster.[/QUOTE] That's a good point, actually.