• "What Are You Even Doing Nintendo?" : More Photos of Nintendo NX Controller Prototype Leaked
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vin what are your opinions on [B]gamers[/B] tell me more about these [B]gamers[/B] im hearing so much about and about how because they dont like the shit you like they must be dumb do it in 20 words or less [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] you know im tired of people looking down on me for thinking vr is dumb i better make like twelve paragraphs about how [B]gamers[/B] who think that some other technology is dumb are dumb
Answer the question.
away from you
Then you know what? Likewise with you.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;49992571]Ahem... Still the best Nintendo controller ever: [t]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91qahZOIs6L._SX425_.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Is this a serious post? 1. That analog stick broke EVERY SINGLE TIME 2. Only one stick? You have to be kidding me 3. 3 handles
[QUOTE=No_Excuses;49995018]How many people actually prefer the Wii's controller for serious gaming?[/QUOTE] Me. I bring this story up a lot, but if I didn't 100% believe in motion tech for serious gaming, I wouldn't have dropped three digits on a Razer Hydra for my PC and used it exclusively when playing TF2 up until it broke. Tell you the truth, I still did better with it than I have since. Unfortunately, Razer's repair policy is a joke and Sixense has all-but abandoned their planned support for it outside of TF2 anyway, so... yeah, it really is a shame.
[QUOTE=Tobin;49995310]Is this a serious post? 1. That analog stick broke EVERY SINGLE TIME 2. Only one stick? You have to be kidding me 3. 3 handles[/QUOTE] I still contend that the n64s analog stick is the worst thing ever created by a human being It treads the line of outright terrorism, it's horrible
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;49995378]Me. I bring this story up a lot, but if I didn't 100% believe in motion tech for serious gaming, I wouldn't have dropped three digits on a Razer Hydra for my PC and used it exclusively when playing TF2 up until it broke. Tell you the truth, I still did better with it than I have since. Unfortunately, Razer's repair policy is a joke and Sixense has all-but abandoned their planned support for it outside of TF2 anyway, so... yeah, it really is a shame.[/QUOTE] I love motion controls for aiming too, but something like the wiimote's pointing is ultimately about equally as efficient as using a mouse. I can't think of a single interaction you could do with a kinect that would be equally or more efficient than abstracting that same interaction on a controller, and apparently neither could the entire games industry.
Oh, I [i]know[/i] why it works: free-aim. A mouse can't do free-aim. Not well, anyway. For a wand? It's perfect. The Metroid Prime Trilogy for Wii was FPS control nirvana, and it didn't even use MotionPlus. If it did, even the screen boundary wouldn't be an issue and it'd be legitimately perfect. TF2 and Portal 2 using the Hydra actually also had free-aim. Unfortunately, it wasn't great. I had to use a rather hacky method to get myself a "view lock" button in TF2 and the vertical aiming didn't have the same snap-back that was part of why Prime felt so much better than even other Wii shooters. Portal 2 was even worse; couldn't even rebind the controls.
There is no way you guys are arguing that a wiimote is just as good if not better for fpses then a mouse absolutely no way in hell
Maybe it's brand loyalty, maybe it's nostalgia goggles, but Nintendo is the only company I still play or buy the consoles for. They just understand fun, plain and simple. Their games are well polished, have AMAZING art styles, and are overall just some of the best games in the industry in my opinion. I stopped playing xbox, ps3, and pc a while ago due to money but a while ago I shelled out like $300 for a 3DS and it's long paid for itself
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49995506]There is no way you guys are arguing that a wiimote is just as good if not better for fpses then a mouse absolutely no way in hell[/QUOTE] I am. Having used both in the same game, against users who always [i]did[/i] use an actual mouse: a wand is better. It's just better. Using [i]properly-implemented[/i] motion controls in a FPS will always beat out [i]any[/i] mouse. It's the difference between aiming with your hand and aiming with what is practically a crane. If my Hydra still worked, I'd even be willing to personally prove that to anyone who doubts it.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;49995514]I am. Having used both in the same game, against users who always [i]did[/i] use an actual mouse: a wand is better. It's just better. Using [i]properly-implemented[/i] motion controls in a FPS will always beat out [i]any[/i] mouse. It's the difference between aiming with your hand and aiming with what is practically a crane.[/QUOTE] I dare you to play csgo with a wiimote and see how you do against mouse players You literally wont get a single kill if you play against anyone other than easy bots
Black Ops wii played pretty good and that was my go to port for a while until I got a steam controller and the steam version. With gyro aiming, it was pretty similar.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49995533]I dare you to play csgo with a wiimote and see how you do against mouse players You literally wont get a single kill if you play against anyone other than easy bots[/QUOTE] Shame, CS:GO actually has Sixense support, I believe. Unfortunately, like I said: Hydra's busted. I honestly would take you up on that otherwise. I bet I'd even change your mind.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;49995540]Shame, CS:GO actually has Sixense support, I believe. Unfortunately, like I said: Hydra's busted. I honestly would take you up on that otherwise. I bet I'd even change your mind.[/QUOTE] It would actually be pretty cool to see a pro csgo player that uses motion controls Everyone else has a m+kb and theres just this one guy with an oculus and a wii zapper
Bear in mind, the Wiimote doesn't use Sixense tech, which is what those three Source games (TF2, Portal 2, and CS:GO) are built for. You can't just use a Wiimote for those games even if they're motion-enabled. It's a completely different system that - while MotionPlus and Move come close to its fidelity - is vastly more accurate and reliable than any other motion system out there. And that's just the Razer Hydra's iteration. Sixense's own STEM - provided they ever release the damn thing - has it all increased [i]nine-fold.[/i] Unfortunately, STEM's been in development hell for several years now, and they keep changing the layout of the traditional controls on the thing, so I don't actually have faith in it as an actual [i]product.[/i] Plus, if it has a mechanical build quality anything like the Hydra... egh. At least it's wireless this time.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49995506]There is no way you guys are arguing that a wiimote is just as good if not better for fpses then a mouse absolutely no way in hell[/QUOTE] not as good but definitely fun as fuck [editline]24th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Duck M.;49995609]It would actually be pretty cool to see a pro csgo player that uses motion controls Everyone else has a m+kb and theres just this one guy with an oculus and a wii zapper[/QUOTE] i legit think that pro-levels are achievable with the steam controller because the gyro and the touchpad offer enough precision and speed to match mouse use, similarly to how there are a couple trackball pro players, its just a matter of practice and time
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;49995694] i legit think that pro-levels are achievable with the steam controller because the gyro and the touchpad offer enough precision and speed to match mouse use, similarly to how[B] there are a couple trackball pro players[/B], its just a matter of practice and time[/QUOTE] Holy shit what really I need to know who they are so I can avoid them and their awesome power
the problem with a wiimote and fps gameplay is the method of turning which is to place the aiming reticle towards the edges of the screen so every time you want to turn you have to move your reticle off-target, move at a certain fixed speed to turn, and then move back towards the center. this alone will result in reduced reaction times with turns and target acquisition which will naturally place you at an automatic disadvantage vs a mouse user who is aiming and turning in the same motion
[QUOTE=Tobin;49995310]Is this a serious post? 1. That analog stick broke EVERY SINGLE TIME 2. Only one stick? You have to be kidding me 3. 3 handles[/QUOTE] I want to make it clear here. The N64 was the FIRST console to put an analog stick on a controller in this fashion. It was the bleeding edge for 1996. Even Nintendo didn't even know if it would be a successful feature, which is why they designed it with three handles. Its funny to think that an analog stick was considered the N64's "gimmick". Dualshock, didn't come out until a year later. Its clearly evident that they learned from the mistakes made with the N64 controller though as its pretty much better in every way. The N64 joystick type was terrible for durability though. Best thing I ever did was replace stock joystick with the more modern type. Much smoother.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;49995723]the problem with a wiimote and fps gameplay is the method of turning which is to place the aiming reticle towards the edges of the screen so every time you want to turn you have to move your reticle off-target, move at a certain fixed speed to turn, and then move back towards the center. this alone will result in reduced reaction times with turns and target acquisition which will naturally place you at an automatic disadvantage vs a mouse user who is aiming and turning in the same motion[/QUOTE] At the same time, however, bumping the view turning speed up makes this less of an issue, with no less fine control provided the game has a view-lock button. The ability to free-aim makes for vastly better situational awareness than mouselook, and combined with a view-lock can lead to even faster target acquisition than with a mouse. The only real downside a wand has to mouselook is how quickly you can spin around to face something behind you. Something like Splatoon complements its gyro controls with still using the GamePad's right stick for horizontal turning to circumvent this, though bear in mind Splatoon doesn't actually have free-aim in the first place, merely using the GamePad's gyro for traditional aiming, so it's still not a perfect implementation.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;49994114]This is what the n64 controller should have been.[/QUOTE] Ironically, the reason the D-pad is in the "dominant" position in the N64 controller is because they were afraid that the control stick would be considered a gimmick and not take off (especially since their rivals did not have control sticks at this time). Keep in mind that their opponents had these for controllers (N64 included here) : [Quote] [T]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91qahZOIs6L._SX425_.jpg[/T] [T]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Sega-Saturn-Controller-Mk-I-NA-FL.jpg[/T][T]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/PSX-Original-Controller.jpg[/T] [T]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Atari_Jaguar_Controller_Pic3.jpg[/T][T]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/3DO-101M-Controller.jpg[/T] [/Quote] Although in hindsight it might seem like the better call, now that control sticks have taken off, it would have been rather risky since they were the first to push for a control stick-utilizing controller as a main method of gameplay. It was intended to be more D-pad dominant than it ended up being, which would have felt more like an SNES controller with additional buttons and support legs.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;49995748]At the same time, however, bumping the view turning speed up makes this less of an issue, with no less fine control provided the game has a view-lock button. The ability to free-aim makes for vastly better situational awareness than mouselook, and combined with a view-lock can lead to even faster target acquisition than with a mouse. The only real downside a wand has to mouselook is how quickly you can spin around to face something behind you.[/QUOTE] situational awareness would be the same as the visible screenspace and audio would be exactly the same. the target acquisition would also probably be similar given the speed of a mouse cursor vs the speed of the wiimote. it's the turns where the major disadvantage comes apparent because as you mentioned the turning speed makes it less of an issue but it still remains an issue, one that does not exist for a mouse. it also occurs to me that it can be easier to hold a mouse steady than a light gun which is projecting onto a surface a few meters away. the natural tremor of a human hand holding something free would lead to a loss of accuracy and would take a tremendous amount of effort to overcome vs a mouse. At medium to long range this can be vital. [editline]24th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=VinLAURiA;49995748] Something like Splatoon complements its gyro controls with still using the GamePad's right stick for horizontal turning to circumvent this, though bear in mind Splatoon doesn't actually have free-aim in the first place, merely using the GamePad's gyro for traditional aiming, so it's still not a perfect implementation.[/QUOTE] didnt see this gyro is less of an issue because it's not projecting onto something several meters away- the tremors in a hand aren't amplified by that distance and it remains easy to hold steady. hybrid solutions could potentially become competitive with mouse use, such as with my steam controller argument, but the joystick would serve as a handicap in turning speed where a trackpad or trackball would not.
[QUOTE=Demache;49995742]I want to make it clear here. The N64 was the FIRST console to put an analog stick on a controller in this fashion. It was the bleeding edge for 1996. Even Nintendo didn't even know if it would be a successful feature, which is why they designed it with three handles. Its funny to think that an analog stick was considered the N64's "gimmick". Dualshock, didn't come out until a year later. Its clearly evident that they learned from the mistakes made with the N64 controller though as its pretty much better in every way. The N64 joystick type was terrible for durability though. Best thing I ever did was replace stock joystick with the more modern type. Much smoother.[/QUOTE] If I have the choice of either letting the N64 joystick exist or not having any controller ever have an analog stick because the N64 controller never had one I'd choose the latter just so I would have never had to suffer through using the N64 one
the n64 controller wasnt that bad
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;49995831]the n64 controller wasnt that bad[/QUOTE] it was
Mouse wins in raw precision, I admit that. Having a physical surface for the device to rest on will always mean it can remain steady by just resting. However, I'd say a wand wins when it comes to how easily you can make both small and large movements, due to all being in the rotation of the wrist rather than the more complex arm movements of moving a mouse all across the desk (bear in mind, I have a motor disability.) Not only that, but I disagree that the situational awareness of mouselook would be the same as a wand. With free-aim and a view-lock button, you can keep your overall field of view exactly where you want it even while aiming at different targets. Every time you aim somewhere else with mouselook, you're creating new blindspots. Your view is locked to your crosshair. Motion controls don't suffer from that. Also, bear in mind that Sixense-based motion or even any modern motion control with a gyroscope like MotionPlus or Move have means for the wand to measure its rotation locally, so the distance issue from a pointer hasn't really been an issue anymore. The second games for both the Conduit and Red Steel series on the Wii did this; they still used the pointer as the reference point, but MotionPlus meant they didn't rely entirely on it. The pointer stopped being a handicap fairly quick for games that actually incorporated the additional sensors.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49995832]it was[/QUOTE] Depended on the game. Some, it worked great for, particularly platformers that didn't demand heavy camera control and some action or party games. Never forget the metaphorical scars burned into your palms from Mario Party. Others, not so much. Like it was a nightmare to aim in any shooter that demanded both vertical and horizontal targeting, considering all you had was four buttons and a somewhat-sensitive analog stick during a time where there wasn't a consolidated control scheme for shooters yet. Games like Goldendark and Perfect Eye got off lucky with that since there's no jumping and shit and usually you have more than enough time to deal with vertical enemies, but other titles like Jet Force Gemini [i]shit all over you[/i] with various hordes of enemies waiting to ambush you around every other corner and forcing you to play it nice and slow or else die horribly (or kill Tribals by accident).
if you're just sitting down with your arm resting at your side you can aim with your wrist without getting shaky at all or losing precision. Turning is a legitimate issue for wiimotes specifically, but I think if you combine a dual stick movement + screen rotation setup with the wiimote's aiming you get the best of everything...
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