Lithium considered to be added to water supplies - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30098871]The people who flocked to the spring water ponds with high lithium content and called it "Happy water" seem to like it. If its been sought for centuries, then give the people their lithium water.[/QUOTE] And screw over those who don't want it. Woohoo for democracy and ability to choose for yourself :downs:

[QUOTE=Van-man;30101414]And screw over those who don't want it. Woohoo for democracy and ability to choose for yourself :downs:[/QUOTE] So you are saying that those who refuse want to remain less healthy unlike normal people? :downs:

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30101718]So you are saying that those who refuse want to remain less healthy unlike normal people? :downs:[/QUOTE] Until the public is informed of the advantages and disadvantages of this move no one has the right to add anything. Raise awareness about the action and then ask the public what they want.

[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;30103316]Until the public is informed of the advantages and disadvantages of this move no one has the right to add anything. Raise awareness about the action and then ask the public what they want.[/QUOTE] Do the same like what was done with fluoride and we can all be happy.

[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;30103316]Until the public is informed of the advantages and disadvantages of this move no one has the right to add anything. Raise awareness about the action and then ask the public what they want.[/QUOTE] Implying that the public are rational, reasonable and able to determine what they want.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;30092199]It can discolour your teeth Hardly comparable to something that affects a person's very personality[/QUOTE] You could argue the very same thing in reverse, though. Our personalities aren't what they would naturally be if we were just drinking regular, unfiltered water. By filtering all of our tap water the government is changing our personalities.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30098871]The people who flocked to the spring water ponds with high lithium content and called it "Happy water" seem to like it. If its been sought for centuries, then give the people their lithium water.[/QUOTE] What? [QUOTE=Sobotnik;30098128]Well adding it is good for you. Pretty much the only reason you chaps don't want it is because it interferes with this human rights crap which has been going around. What the fuck do you want? Every person to vote on this and then decide to add lithium or not. Just bypass the waste of resources and time the voting is and get on with just fucking adding it. We need progress not luddism.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;30078303]Well as long as the majority of people find it ok, and the pros of using Lithium outweighs the cons then just add it. Governments have been intervening in things for a long time and more often than not it has been beneficial, without such government intervention most people would be in poverty, drinking water full of shit and diseases.[/QUOTE] Which do you want? First you argue against going back to an era when 'most people would be in poverty, drinking water full of shit and diseases' and imply that people weren't intelligent enough to know what was good for them, and then you claim that because 'centuries' ago people ingested it after realizing that chemicals positively affected their mood, we should do it. Which is it? Do we do what people did centuries ago in completely different societies with totally different spheres of knowledge, or do we seek 'progress not luddism'? Also, 'human rights crap'? My goodness, the idea that humans should have a modicum of autonomy - what bullshit. Jesus christ.

[QUOTE=Contag;30113876]Implying that the public are rational, reasonable and able to determine what they want.[/QUOTE] Well that's the point of a democracy. The people vote on what happens. If you take away their right to then what's the point of calling the country a democracy? [editline]29th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=sltlamina;30114136]You could argue the very same thing in reverse, though. Our personalities aren't what they would naturally be if we were just drinking regular, unfiltered water. By filtering all of our tap water the government is changing our personalities.[/QUOTE] Some person theorized that the aggresiveness in the middle eastern conflicts is due to the people not getting enough zinc in their diet due to their staple food of unleavened bread.

I don't drink the tap water in my home regularly. Tastes like ass, even after filtration.

[QUOTE=PunchedInFac;30114860]Well that's the point of a democracy. The people vote on what happens. If you take away their right to then what's the point of calling the country a democracy?[/QUOTE] Democracy is particularly skewed when people don't have access to all information. That's about the best you can do, I think - you can't ensure that someone is 'rational, reasonable, and able to determine what they want'. One of the greatest downfalls of the democratic process. You [i]can[/i] determine what information people have, to a decent degree. ETA: My point being that I don't think you and Contag are in disagreement. As far as I'm aware, he believes in the right of self-autonomy. But his point was valid, I think.

[QUOTE=PelPix123;30116386]This is a terrible idea. Lithium can cause weight gain and a ton of birth defects. It also causes developmental problems in children. It decreases thyroid function too, and it can also severe depression and suicidal thoughts. It only evens mood. Whether it evens mood to good or bad is a coin toss.[/QUOTE] If lithium causes obesity just put a tax on fat people.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30098128]Well adding it is good for you. Pretty much the only reason you chaps don't want it is because it interferes with this human rights crap which has been going around. What the fuck do you want? Every person to vote on this and then decide to add lithium or not. Just bypass the waste of resources and time the voting is and get on with just fucking adding it. We need progress not luddism.[/QUOTE] let me consult the grand AI beep boop beep [editline]29th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;30116862]If lithium causes obesity just put a tax on fat people.[/QUOTE] so punish people for something that the government did to them hahaha you're great great poster keep up the great posting great poster great

[QUOTE=PelPix123;30116386]This is a terrible idea. Lithium can cause weight gain and a ton of birth defects. It also causes developmental problems in children. It decreases thyroid function too, and it can also severe depression and suicidal thoughts. It only evens mood. Whether it evens mood to good or bad is a coin toss.[/QUOTE] EVERYTHING has negative effects in large quantities, bar nothing. You're talking about symptoms that are associated with what would be considered sizeable doses of lithium. Lithium is naturally occurring in water sources and the ion Li+ has been proven to have positive effects on mood in small quantities, and in large quantities, yes, it's dangerous. But we aren't talking about large quantities here; we're talking about quantities similar to the the amount you'd find in a random sample of natural water if you took one.

[QUOTE=sltlamina;30117011]EVERYTHING has negative effects in large quantities, bar nothing. You're talking about symptoms that are associated with what would be considered sizeable doses of lithium. Lithium is naturally occurring in water sources and the ion Li+ has been proven to have positive effects on mood in small quantities, and in large quantities, yes, it's dangerous. But we aren't talking about large quantities here; we're talking about quantities similar to the the amount you'd find in a random sample of natural water if you took one.[/QUOTE] FDA said the same thing about Fluoride. Now it is in everything we eat and drink and recent studies suggest most Americans are over exposed. Adding something to the water supply is an inherently risky thing to do.

[QUOTE=superdinoman;30117030]FDA said the same thing about Fluoride. Now it is in everything we eat and drink and recent studies suggest most Americans are over exposed. Adding something to the water supply is an inherently risky thing to do.[/QUOTE] Something that is in the vast majority of the world's water in the first place, but it just so happens it gets removed in the purification process.

[QUOTE=sltlamina;30114136]You could argue the very same thing in reverse, though. Our personalities aren't what they would naturally be if we were just drinking regular, unfiltered water. By filtering all of our tap water the government is changing our personalities.[/QUOTE] Again, that's accidental; a byproduct of the cleaning process. This would be actively changing our personalities because a few mandarins in Washington have decided it would be for the best if we all were more docile.

[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;30117304]Again, that's accidental; a byproduct of the cleaning process. This would be actively changing our personalities because a few mandarins in Washington have decided it would be for the best if we all were more docile.[/QUOTE] We shouldn't be cleaning shit out of the water that's required, even if only in trace quantities, to function correctly. We should filter out water-borne bacteria and micro-organisms, shit like that; heavy metals that aren't meant to be in the water sources and serve no purpose in the human body. If we accidentally filter stuff out that we function better with, then it should be reintroduced in the water at a later stage in the same quantities, or in lesser/greater quantities if it turns out it's more beneficial to our health in those quantities.

Somehow my horrible experience with chemicals affecting the mind tells me this is a very bad idea. And yes I do know that lithium isn't benzodiazepine, and isn't deposited anywhere near the amounts it is given in xanax pills, but still, it is given in very tiny amounts but over a very very long time span.

I dunno, I'm sorta on teh fence about this, as nice an idea as it is on paper, I'd rather be in control of my own mental state whether I'm depressed or not. And by mental state i don't mean we're all suddenly going to become docile people, I just see this as unnecessary really, fair enough if you disagree again that's understandable but I'd just prefer that chemicals capable of altering someones state of mind or emotional balance should be left to doctors and performed when required. But hey I'm not american so I really don't have much say here.

[QUOTE=Mastotron;30117599]I dunno, I'm sorta on teh fence about this, as nice an idea as it is on paper, I'd rather be in control of my own mental state whether I'm depressed or not. And by mental state i don't mean we're all suddenly going to become docile people, I just see this as unnecessary really, fair enough if you disagree again that's understandable but I'd just prefer that chemicals capable of altering someones state of mind or emotional balance should be left to doctors and performed when required. But hey I'm not american so I really don't have much say here.[/QUOTE] The problem is depression manifests itself by a chemical imbalance in the brain, and unfortunately it does shit like ruin your appetite/desire to do things which, in turn, causes the imbalance to worsen. It's a cycle that VERY hard to break, and if introducing small quantities of an element proven to balance mood in the water supply helps stop people getting into that cycle in the first place, then why not? It's not like it's going to suddenly make you evil, or insane, or anything like that: it's just gonna make you less mopey. I can understand the concerns about it altering your mental state, but EVERYTHING alters your mental state in one way or another. The brain takes in a shit load of data, responds to a ridiculous amount of chemicals and churns out responses based on those variables. Something as simple as changing your diet WILL alter the way your brain works, so... putting a tiny amount of lithium into your body ain't that big a deal.

Nah I'm not saying it's something sinister or anything, I just mean that if there's any dedicated chemical or compound that I am ingesting/introducing into my system then I'd like to be in full control of that. It's nothing major, I'd just prefer we stuck with the method of targetted application of anti-depressants as opposed to blanket application. But on the other hand I agree with what they are trying to achieve, it's just that I'd much rather not need to take the lithium as I see it as unnecessary. v:v:v it's a conundrum.

Put me in your water.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;30116905]let me consult the grand AI beep boop beep [editline]29th May 2011[/editline] so punish people for something that the government did to them hahaha you're great great poster keep up the great posting great poster great[/QUOTE] Well people would be a hell lot healthier if tax discouraged them from gaining weight. Tax people and they will do anything to stop paying tax. Put a tax on windows and they brick them up. Put a tax on soap and they don't wash. If you tax fat people, it will do them much better in the long run until they lose weight to become normal.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;30121430]Well people would be a hell lot healthier if tax discouraged them from gaining weight. Tax people and they will do anything to stop paying tax. Put a tax on windows and they brick them up. Put a tax on soap and they don't wash. If you tax fat people, it will do them much better in the long run until they lose weight to become normal.[/QUOTE] Are you talking about taxing people or taxing the food?

[QUOTE=devotchkade;30114841]What? Which do you want? First you argue against going back to an era when 'most people would be in poverty, drinking water full of shit and diseases' and imply that people weren't intelligent enough to know what was good for them, and then you claim that because 'centuries' ago people ingested it after realizing that chemicals positively affected their mood, we should do it. Which is it? Do we do what people did centuries ago in completely different societies with totally different spheres of knowledge, or do we seek 'progress not luddism'? Also, 'human rights crap'? My goodness, the idea that humans should have a modicum of autonomy - what bullshit. Jesus christ.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;30116862]If lithium causes obesity just put a tax on fat people.[/QUOTE] Wow, you rated me 'Dumb' (the only person to do so thus far, I might add), and then proceeded to completely ignore my post. My god, what a stunning retort! In the face of such awe-inspiring logic, I retract everything I said. Keep your bullshit to yourself unless you can handle being called out on it. Also, a 'tax on fat people'? You literally just said that their being obese in this hypothetical situation is resultant on something out of their control, and you want to tax them? Seriously? [QUOTE=Mastotron;30117599] But hey I'm not american so I really don't have much say here.[/QUOTE] Because what happens in America [i]never[/i] affects the rest of the world, right?

excuse me if im missing something but dont we have immune systems fuck man if its bad your body sends it to your kidneys, colon, or right up the esophagus and out your mouth same thing with germs bitches be so pure with their shit that their body doesn't build resistance to shit so they fork up fucking hundreds of dollars for antibiotics cause they were neglecting themselves were becoming dependent on clean things that even some of our organs are shutting down, take the appendix for example i dont understand this fucking personal choices thing, either for fucks sake you're getting longevity and all sorts of other benefits "NO I CHOOSE TO HAS BAD LIEF YES LOL" "NO I CHOOSE TO NOT WERE SEETBELT AND PUT MY AND OTHER PEOPLES LIVES IN DANGER YES LOL" "NO I CHOOSE TO DRIVE CAR WITH TERRIBLE FUEL ECONOMY AND WASTE ALL MY MONEY AND POLLUTE THE AIR MAKING LIFE BAD FOR EVERYONE ELSE AND MELTING POLAR ICE CAPS LOL"

If I want lithium I'll buy some and add it to my own water thank you very much.

[QUOTE=devotchkade;30123600]Wow, you rated me 'Dumb' (the only person to do so thus far, I might add), and then proceeded to completely ignore my post. My god, what a stunning retort! In the face of such awe-inspiring logic, I retract everything I said. Keep your bullshit to yourself unless you can handle being called out on it. Also, a 'tax on fat people'? You literally just said that their being obese in this hypothetical situation is resultant on something out of their control, and you want to tax them? Seriously? Because what happens in America [i]never[/i] affects the rest of the world, right?[/QUOTE] People seek what's good for them. Lithium in tiny doses is good for people. I support it getting added, a governmental body is going to add lithium to water, and it will be done and over with. Most of the people opposing it in this thread probably can't be arsed to even do anything about it outside of the internet.

[QUOTE=Van-man;30101414]And screw over those who don't want it. Woohoo for democracy and ability to choose for yourself :downs:[/QUOTE] Nothing is stopping anybody from creating their own water supplying system for people who don't want lithium water.

[QUOTE=Van-man;30080704]Oh yeah, because I LOVE being financially assraped for shitty water in a fancy bottle :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] A case of water around here is like seven dollars.