[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678605]Regardless of what taxes are, it's essential a good society to have these social services in place.[/QUOTE]
That is where things wonder into the realm of debate. People who want these things gone don't want to see old and poor people die, and even if they didn't actually possess the forethought to consider the implications of those systems being gone I don't think with the standards of western living being set as they are that they'd die in the streets.
So even in your view of there being no alternative to state run services, the supposed implications are far overblown.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678679]Why would you want to get rid of it?[/QUOTE]
There is no guarantee it will be there for us when we're older anyway just speaking in terms of population growth and sustainability of the program, ignoring any evil-doers who want it gone before that point. People generally think they can use the extra money from their pay checks to their own devices or to their own savings accounts.
[editline]e[/editline]
[QUOTE=Strider*;31678236]Robin Hood needs to be vanquished from our culture.[/QUOTE]
Funny thing about that is the "Robin Hood" myth can be placed into either end of the ideological spectrum.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678556]That had better be sarcasm.[/QUOTE]
It's a quote from A Christmas Carol. Fun fact- Libertarians read it to their children backwards so they learn the lesson of how a man overcomes the evils of altruism and defeats the lazy parasites.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;31678774]It's a quote from A Christmas Carol. Fun fact- Libertarians read it to their children backwards so they learn the lesson of how a man overcomes the evils of altruism and defeats the lazy parasites.[/QUOTE]
I think you're confusing Libertarians with Randians. There is a difference between a politician in a monkey suit being altruistic with money he does not own, and a person being altruistic with the money they have earned.
[QUOTE=s0beit;31678891]I think you're confusing Libertarians with Randians. There is a difference between a politician in a monkey suit being altruistic with money he does not own, and a person being altruistic with the money they have earned.[/QUOTE]
"Randians" don't exist, neither does "Randianism"
[QUOTE=s0beit;31678891]Randians.[/QUOTE]
Wrong term, stop using it.
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=s0beit;31678891]I think you're confusing Libertarians with Randians. There is a difference between a politician in a monkey suit being altruistic with money he does not own, and a person being altruistic with the money they have earned.[/QUOTE]
That's the fundamental difference between a libertarian and an objectivist.
Libertarians want economic and social freedom because they believe it will do a hell of a lot more for the common good than a controlled economy.
Libertarians don't follow a common morality or philosophy, and that's why they are so easily destroyed.
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
Keep defending capitalism through altruism, Libertarians.
But here's a hint, it won't work.
[QUOTE=Strider*;31679130]That's the fundamental difference between a libertarian and an objectivist.
.[/QUOTE]
Theres also the fact that many libertarians are for the piracy of intellectual property, along with net neutrality and a foreign policy of appeasement.
Their stance on intellectual property has always bothered me the most.
[QUOTE=Strider*;31679130]Keep defending capitalism through altruism, Libertarians.
But here's a hint, it won't work.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, the man who said that "monopolies don't exist in a free-market economy, and when they do it's for the good of the people".
Truly a fellow of impeccable intelligence.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31679343]Ah yes, the man who said that "monopolies don't exist in a free-market economy, and when they do it's for the good of the people".
Truly a fellow of impeccable intelligence.[/QUOTE]
I was appealing to your standards.
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
I've long since learned that no longer is important however.
[QUOTE=Strider*;31679429]I was appealing to your standards.
[editline]11th August 2011[/editline]
I've long since learned that no longer is important however.[/QUOTE]
You are in no position to be condescending.
Try again when you don't maintain a viewpoint that involves leaving the poor and destitute with nothing.
My viewpoint involves giving the poor and destitute with ability the opportunity to earn their living.
It used to be that those on the dole would try their hardest to get off of the dole. It was embarrassing to be on the dole, because it was considered a free ride.
Nowadays, the dole is no longer considered a lifeline, but rather as a monthly (or weekly) paycheck. Those who abuse the system abuse it because they know people will continue to defend the dole because they feel it helps those in need. Well, it helps those who abuse it, too.
Now, I would love for there to be entitlement reform. Most, if not all conservatives, would like to see some varying degree of reform. There will always be those who need the dole (seniors receiving Medicare, assistance for medical needs of the truly unfortunate, and the like), but there really needs to be a better system in place to check for fraud. I know most of you will scream that it's a violation of rights to have someone check and see if the money is being spent wisely, but it's the government's money. It should be audited like all other payments given out by the government. The Department of the Treasury has agencies that can audit paychecks and payments, so why can't it do the same for benefits and pensions?
[QUOTE=Strider*;31679614]My viewpoint involves giving the poor and destitute with ability the opportunity to earn their living.[/QUOTE]
And how would that work exactly?
[QUOTE=Strider*;31679614]My viewpoint involves giving the poor and destitute [b]with ability[/b] the opportunity to earn their living.[/QUOTE]
And what about those who don't have the ability to?
If all of the entitlement programs are gone, then sure, some poor people who are able to will eventually get earn a better life, but the ones who can't and the unlucky ones would be fucked.
And you guys do know that welfare / entitlement fraud rates are exaggerated, right?
Basically, it's how you don't hear "Nobody was murdered today" or "Billy-Bob McHobo used his welfare payments correctly" on the news. Sensationalism + normality being boring = OH SHIT WELFARE QUEENS EVERYWHERE
[QUOTE=Last or First;31679939]And what about those who don't have the ability to?
If all of the entitlement programs are gone, then sure, some poor people who are able to will eventually get earn a better life, but the ones who can't and the unlucky ones would be fucked.
And you guys do know that welfare / entitlement fraud rates are exaggerated, right?
Basically, it's how you don't hear "Nobody was murdered today" or "Billy-Bob McHobo used his welfare payments correctly" on the news. Sensationalism + normality being boring = OH SHIT WELFARE QUEENS EVERYWHERE[/QUOTE]
It's true. The percentage of people who fraudulently use welfare money is greatly exaggerated.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31678556]That had better be sarcasm.[/QUOTE]
I think it was actually a quote from A Christmas Carol.
[editline]12th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Strider*;31679130]Wrong term, stop using it.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, how about "Randroids" instead.
[editline]12th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Strider*;31679614]My viewpoint involves giving the poor and destitute with ability the opportunity to earn their living.[/QUOTE]
Story time!
I had this job working across the street from a milk processing plant, cleaning out milk trailers. There was talk about the company losing the rights to the yard, since it was owned by DFA and leased to the company I worked for, and the contract was about to expire. Of course the company I worked for went around preaching "Noone's gonna lose their jobs, calm down". December rolls around, and WHAM, 75 people are laid-off, including myself.
Now, the unemployment rate in Portales, NM at the time was 25%. WELL above the national average. I applied everywhere, even the plant that was across the street where I worked. Not a word from anyone. Were it not for unemployment, I wouldn't have had car insurance, gas to look for work, FOOD, and I wouldn't have been able to pay the rent/utilities my landlord/room-mate wanted me to pay.
I have 3 elderly relatives living together pooling their resources just to get by, all of them living on social security and medicaid. One of them can't see to drive and can barely walk, so she couldn't work if she wanted to. Another doesn't have the energy or strength to work anymore since her surgery, and the third is in a rapidly degenerative state thanks to MS. But fuck these people, they don't deserve any help, right? Fucking slackers, catching a free ride like that.
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