• Up to 53% of Americans believe background checks for guns could lead to confiscation of legally owne
    130 replies, posted
[QUOTE=zakedodead;40190601]Because the government of any country is a group of people, and people can do bad things. And because it's another sacrifice of freedom for perceived safety. Although I'm fine with background checks for the most part.[/QUOTE] There are already background checks on buying guns.
[QUOTE=Valnar;40190629]There are already background checks on buying guns.[/QUOTE] on [I]most[/I] gun purchases. There are loopholes.
[QUOTE=areolop;40190641]on [I]most[/I] gun purchases. There are loopholes.[/QUOTE] Like buying from a guy in a shady parking lot completely legally or in broad daylight at a gunshow. :v:
I don't believe gunshows require a background check because of some loophole about it being between two private citizens instead of a shop owner to a consumer.
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;40190317]Can someone explain why are so many Americans paranoid about the government? I've never really understood.[/QUOTE] because they think their hobby is more important than 10k dead people every year and will use any means to justify it no matter how idiotic it makes them sound
[QUOTE=mastermaul;40190594]You mean the point where he lumped in firearm owners with those who would wish to destroy the foundations of western civilization and civil safety?[/QUOTE] Lmao no. The point is that whenever the government did X, a small number of people loudly beated their chests, and shouted out loudly: "Do not do this! This is an attack upon freedom that the majority of us do not want! We represent the interests of everybody!" X happens, and then the issue is forgotten until a new issue pops up. Frequently, a piece of gun legislation might be compared to the government rounding up everybody and shooting them, and a piece of healthcare legislation might be compared to the government having a "kill" quota.
[QUOTE=areolop;40190622]If you're against background checks for gun ownership, you might have a screw loose. The only way this would lead to confiscation is if you are in possession of a weapon illegally.[/QUOTE] Like if the federal government suddenly decides that possession of a broad range of weapons covering millions of privately owned firearms that have been in civilian possession for decades is now illegal? Background checks aren't the issue. The issue is the impossibility of enforcing background checks on private transfers without universal registration.
[QUOTE=mastermaul;40190735]Like if the federal government suddenly decides that possession of a broad range of weapons covering millions of privately owned firearms that have been in civilian possession for decades is now illegal? Background checks aren't the issue. The issue is the impossibility of enforcing background checks on private transfers without universal registration.[/QUOTE] There's this thing called "being grandfathered in" that pretty much makes most of your post here moot.
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;40190317]Can someone explain why are so many Americans paranoid about the government? I've never really understood.[/QUOTE] Come here to Illinois and look at how many ex-politicians are in jail. Hint: it's a lot.
[QUOTE=mastermaul;40190735]Like if the federal government suddenly decides that possession of a broad range of weapons covering millions of privately owned firearms that have been in civilian possession for decades is now illegal? Background checks aren't the issue. The issue is the impossibility of enforcing background checks on private transfers without universal registration.[/QUOTE] Ex Post Facto. If you had it then, you can still have it now. I dont see how background checks would even hint at the weapon here, its YOUR BACKGROUND. They're searching for felons, domestic assault aggressors, mentally ill, and others.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;40190746]There's this thing called "being grandfathered in" that pretty much makes most of your post here moot.[/QUOTE] There's absolutely nothing that guarantees the presence of a grandfather clause in any future legislation. The NY Safe Act has already mandated that all magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds be surrendered to the state, or sold out of state. Mandatory surrender of firearms covered by the bill was strongly considered.
Keep in mind people, rights can be taken away, my dad was put in prison nearly 40 years ago for selling weed. He's not allowed to possess, touch or even be near guns, airguns, or fireworks. A non-violent drug felony removed his rights to protect himself, yet there's people who are notorious for being violent as hell, and being arrested for it, running around with all of those things. A friend of my dad's was released from prison a few years ago for having a few bullets in his car when police searched his car. The car was his father's and his father can legally own those kinds of things. Remember folks, there's no such thing as rights in this world, it's all privileges. Privileges that can be taken away in an instant by the government. Not saying that background checks will lead to confiscation, but i am pointing out the bullshit of the US Government.
If they're that stupid, they probably shouldn't be carrying weapons.
[QUOTE=zombini;40190839]Keep in mind people, rights can be taken away, my dad was put in prison nearly 40 years ago for selling weed. He's not allowed to possess, touch or even be near guns, airguns, or fireworks. A non-violent drug felony removed his rights to protect himself, yet there's people who are notorious for being violent as hell, and being arrested for it, running around with all of those things. A friend of my dad's was released from prison a few years ago for having a few bullets in his car when police searched his car. The car was his father's and his father can legally own those kinds of things. Remember folks, there's no such thing as rights in this world, it's all privileges. Privileges that can be taken away in an instant by the government. Not saying that background checks will lead to confiscation, but i am pointing out the bullshit of the US Government.[/QUOTE] Being a felon does that.
Guns.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;40190245]Yeah man, fuck them people and their 300 million collective guns. Nice edit.[/QUOTE] Why indeed
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;40190317]Can someone explain why are so many Americans paranoid about the government? I've never really understood.[/QUOTE] I don't trust the Canadian government, and I know you don't either. The only difference may be you seem to trust your preferred party, I am still suspicious of my preferred party, and more suspicious of my opposing parties. Ask yourself when last there was an honest party in power in either nation, you have to go back to the '60s at least for Canada (I do not view PET as an honest or trustworthy man), and likely earlier for the US. The government does nothing to earn the trust of its citizens, and that can breed suspicion and paranoia, especially if you've had decades of distrustful and dishonest governments.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;40191150]I don't trust the Canadian government, and I know you don't either. The only difference may be you seem to trust your preferred party, I am still suspicious of my preferred party, and more suspicious of my opposing parties. Ask yourself when last there was an honest party in power in either nation, you have to go back to the '60s at least for Canada (I do not view PET as an honest or trustworthy man), and likely earlier for the US. The government does nothing to earn the trust of its citizens, and that can breed suspicion and paranoia, especially if you've had decades of distrustful and dishonest governments.[/QUOTE] I think the main reason why people are paranoid of the US Government is because the people's voice doesn't really matter at all. It's the megacorporations that pay off senators and House Members to get their way, which usually includes shitting on everyone else. My example is the Monsanto protection Act. It prevents GMO foods from being pulled immediately from store shelves in the event that serious adverse effects are found. It means that food grown by farmers using Monsanto seeds that are potentially poisonous, could stay on the market for weeks after issues are found.
[QUOTE=zombini;40191341]I think the main reason why people are paranoid of the US Government is because the people's voice doesn't really matter at all. It's the megacorporations that pay off senators and House Members to get their way, which usually includes shitting on everyone else. My example is the Monsanto protection Act. It prevents GMO foods from being pulled immediately from store shelves in the event that serious adverse effects are found. It means that food grown by farmers using Monsanto seeds that are potentially poisonous, could stay on the market for weeks after issues are found.[/QUOTE] the whole "corporations buy our politicians argument" is kinda silly because honestly the average american generally supports corporations even if they don't think they do. the entirety of the US is pretty right leaning and this whole pro-gun thing is a really well engineered corporate push and anyone who doesn't see it is pretty blind to it, politicians are basically acting based upon their own ideology which happens to be pro-corporate, and the overwhelming majority of people that vote for them are also pro-corporate. see: all conservative politicians. their base is pro corporate. they're not really doing anything that harms what their base wants because they're acting exactly how their base wants them to act: like capitalists, avoiding regulation.
But I'm a 'murican I can have a gun if I want one! End of story!
The yankie gun regulation argument is full of slippery slopes. First they will take my assault rifles! Next week they will take my freedoms!
[quote]with 1,711 registered voters questioned by telephone[/quote] I wonder how valid these results are. I'm sure that the only people who care enough to answer a survey over the phone are people who are already dead set on their opinion, not moderates who would think about the question or answer "I dont know/maybe".
Did you know that if you regulated guns, that /everybody/ holding a gun will be shot?
Why do they keep bringing up background checks? Most people buy their firearms through an FFL in which you already do a background check. What more do they want? For people to be pulled into a back room with mirrors and FBI agents interrogating you?
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;40191809]That's sorta-kinda the point of the 2nd amendment, so yeah. [editline]7th April 2013[/editline] That pretentious bullying is hauntingly familiar. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIQtxLCgrM[/media] I'm not going to speak for everyone, but I do not think a hobby are worth a the deaths of tens of thousands of people. I never said that, I don't think anyone on this entire forum (correct me if I'm wrong) has ever said anything remotely close to that. What I don't think is worth anything, is banning a hobby and shitting on the constitution because people like to beat around the bush and blame everything but the murderer for killing.[/QUOTE] are you saying that piers morgan is the nutty one in the vid? because you would be wrong. [editline]7th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=HkSniper;40192209] What more do they want? For people to be pulled into a back room with mirrors and FBI agents interrogating you?[/QUOTE] i wouldn't mind, yes
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;40190417][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman_Strike#Federal_intervention[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army#U.S._Army_intervention[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_state_shooting[/URL][/QUOTE] And it's not just the federal government, but state and local governments. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina#Confiscation_of_civilian_firearms"]For example, the search for, without warrants, and confiscation of firearms immediately following hurricane katrina.[/URL] [quote]Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms"]firearms[/URL]. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolver"]revolver[/URL] for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.[/quote] I personally will never take any government at their word ever again. The state exists to protect its own interest first and foremost, and anyone who hasn't yet realised this is sadly mistaken.
Seems like there's a humongous market for tinfoil hats in the US.
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;40191150]I don't trust the Canadian government, and I know you don't either. The only difference may be you seem to trust your preferred party, I am still suspicious of my preferred party, and more suspicious of my opposing parties. Ask yourself when last there was an honest party in power in either nation, you have to go back to the '60s at least for Canada (I do not view PET as an honest or trustworthy man), and likely earlier for the US. The government does nothing to earn the trust of its citizens, and that can breed suspicion and paranoia, especially if you've had decades of distrustful and dishonest governments.[/QUOTE] I [U][B]only[/B][/U] distrust the Harper government.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;40190666]I don't believe gunshows require a background check because of some loophole about it being between two private citizens instead of a shop owner to a consumer.[/QUOTE] Incorrect, every gun I've bought at a gunshow required a background check to purchase. I believe all vendors use background checks for modern firearms and if they don't then they're strongly encouraged to. The places where you see transactions occur that don't have checks are usually between attendees. A guy can show up to a gunshow and sell a gun without using a background check even if he's not a certified vendor.
In other news a little over half of us don't trust the government. What else is new? Though, background checks done by private gun retailers don't facilitate confiscation. Anyone with half a brain knows that. It's the forced registration bullshit that facilitates confiscation. [editline]7th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;40194269]Incorrect, every gun I've bought at a gunshow required a background check to purchase. I believe all vendors use background checks for modern firearms and if they don't then they're strongly encouraged to. The places where you see transactions occur that don't have checks are usually between attendees. A guy can show up to a gunshow and sell a gun without using a background check even if he's not a certified vendor.[/QUOTE] In my state there is no law requiring background checks or wait periods at gun shows. I could walk into one with a handful of C-notes and walk out with a shiny new AK47 simple as that.
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