Don't call pregnant women 'expectant mothers' as it might offend transgender people, BMA says
253 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lollipoopdeck;51755739]im trans.
im not offended.
stop getting offended for me.[/QUOTE]
^this. I'm transman, aka the target population. I can safely say that 99.99% of transmen have zero desire to become pregnant (most are absolutely grossed out at the thought, myself included). It's unlikely that many can even become pregnant after they've been on hormones since it shuts down the ovaries.
Honestly, a better move and more supported move would be editing doctor office forms to be more trans-friendly. I.e preferred name, gender, etc. Well, I don't know if Britain has those or not, but the US certainly doesn't.
If you'd just added "to its staff" to the title, this thread would've been one page.
-snip-
[QUOTE=01271;51755930]If you'd just added "to its staff" to the title, this thread would've been one page.[/QUOTE]
It's just a bait
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51754562]As a transgendered person, [B]no, you really will not offend anyone.[/B] I have never once heard of other trans people being upset over the term 'expectant mother', and even in the ludicrously rare chance that you would encounter a pregnant transgender male (not fucking likely I'll tell you that) they'd just tell you not to refer to [I]them[/I] as a mother and that would be fine.
This is not something to really blame on 'the far left' or 'PC gone mad', it's more likely the result of a bunch of people having like a boardroom meeting and trying to make sure they're as 'accepting as possible', so they start reaching for ideas, and one person suggests this, they're like "Ooh good idea" and here we are.[/QUOTE]
What would you call a pregnant transgender man? It seems like a puzzle to me.
life is too short to bitch and moan about some memo tbh
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51754344]Can the far left just fuck off[/QUOTE]
you must be fucking delusional if you think "the far left" controls the British medical association
[QUOTE=J!NX;51754374]I've always assumed "MAN" to be a partially gender neutral term tbh that can apply to all of humanity or simply men
I mean when I think about why its like... woMAN, huMAN, etcetc. it isn't 100% specific.[/QUOTE]
We should vote in a law that changes the word "man" as in a male figure to HE-MAN to clarify everything
And make the official pronunciation exactly like skeletor's.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51754905]Because why is gender neutrality a good thing? Especially when it comes to defining who is father and who is mother. You gave birth to it? You're a mother.[/QUOTE]
Gender neutrality because people are simply happier when not subjected to social pressures and roles based on superficial assumptions about them.
Acceptable guy/gal behaviour and expectations for filling a gender role are honestly quite shitty, and even more shitty when you don't feel at home with the gender people believe you to be.
"You gave birth to it? You're a mother." is the same as saying "you have X genitals? you're X gender" and that directly invalidates the whole concept of "transgender". That's not what you're saying is it?
[QUOTE=Ishwoo;51755173]Won't be long before teachers begin calling students 'pupil #' in case any non-binary/transgender folk get offended (or more likely; people decide to be offended on their behalf) about having their gender assumed based on their given name.[/QUOTE]
That's what we call a slippery slope argument. 5 yard penalty, repeat first argument.
Jesus Todd, there's sensationalist headlines then there's intentionally obscuring important context for clickbait.
[QUOTE=1239the;51756433]Jesus Todd, there's sensationalist headlines then there's intentionally obscuring important context for clickbait.[/QUOTE]
Eh, it's mentioned in the third sentence. TBH I think this is the point of sensationalist headlines in the same way that I view satire news like the Onion - it teaches us to be critical and be wary of deep throating narratives that are designed to get us offended. An article shouldn't have a TLDR of how to feel about it.
[QUOTE=cis.joshb;51756272]you must be fucking delusional if you think "the far left" controls the British medical association[/QUOTE]
The far left have been a pain in just about every workers union in the UK, it was the far left in said unions that caused half the problems in the 1970's
[editline]31st January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Scarabix;51755205]Can this meme fuck off and die?
Like yeah fuck the struggle for worker's rights and redistribution of wealth, obviously the mere existence of gender-obsessed tumblristas has to invalidate all of the far left as a whole, right?
Fuck you and fuck your cryptofacist rethorics.[/QUOTE]
The far left have been invalidated ever since they started calling moderates "fascists"
[QUOTE=sgman91;51754406]I don't know what you mean when you say that they "generally" do such things. This changing of our entire language for the feelings of rediculously tiny minorities is an extremely new phenomena.[/QUOTE]
hahahahahahahaha
no it's not.
Literally your language changes constantly. Literally, all the time. It's literally changing right now, and it was literally changing exactly 100 years ago too. Here's an example of it: literally is now an intensifier.
[QUOTE=ASIC;51756107]What would you call a pregnant transgender man? It seems like a puzzle to me.[/QUOTE]
Already answered this one.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51755025]I can answer that
if in the extremely rare, almost certainly never going to happen chance that you actually meet a transgendered, female to male person who's also pregnant and intends to give birth, just ask them.
In the unlikely circumstance that you ever need to talk about this though, you could say, 'pregnant man', 'pregnant transman', 'pregnant transgender person', 'parent of the child', whatever you want. 'Pregnant Trans' is I think gramatically incorrect and maybe sounds a bit inhumane. I think in like 99 percent of cases they would want you to refer to them as father of the child rather than the mother, and it actually makes the most sense to do that.
Yes, while the kid did come out of Dad's pussy, the family will inevitably be built on the idea that they're, y'know, Dad. The role they fill is the role of the father, so call them the father. Easy.[/QUOTE]
Essentially by trying to describe it you ended up with exactly what you should call them lol
this whole 'what should I say' stuff is actually way easier than it seems all you need is some common sense and a willingness to ask questions
[QUOTE=1239the;51756433]Jesus Todd, there's sensationalist headlines then there's intentionally obscuring important context for clickbait.[/QUOTE]
If you read through the thread or the article, you would know that is the title they gave it.
I honestly had no idea what subject line to relate it to since it was all over the place.
If you really got a problem with the title, please let the Telegraph know cause even I think it hones in on something too specific.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51756604]The far left have been a pain in just about every workers union in the UK, it was the far left in said unions that caused half the problems in the 1970's
[editline]31st January 2017[/editline]
The far left have been invalidated ever since they started calling moderates "fascists"[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you on about dude
[QUOTE=Talishmar;51756367]Gender neutrality because people are simply happier when not subjected to social pressures and roles based on superficial assumptions about them.
Acceptable guy/gal behaviour and expectations for filling a gender role are honestly quite shitty, and even more shitty when you don't feel at home with the gender people believe you to be.
"You gave birth to it? You're a mother." is the same as saying "you have X genitals? you're X gender" and that directly invalidates the whole concept of "transgender". That's not what you're saying is it?[/QUOTE]
No, it's not the same thing. It isn't about gender, it's about biology. Biologically, mothers give birth, fathers biologically can't, they lack those parts making it possible. You also differentiate between sex and gender for this reason. You can identify as a man gender-wise and still be a mother biologically. Since, biological males can't give birth.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51756604]The far left have been a pain in just about every workers union in the UK, it was the far left in said unions that caused half the problems in the 1970's
[editline]31st January 2017[/editline]
The far left have been invalidated ever since they started calling moderates "fascists"[/QUOTE]
Okay buddy, not sure what the far left have to do with this though. For that matter, do you even know what the far left is? It encompasses socialism, communism, syndicalism, anarchism, and everything in between. It's really fucking weird to blame a whole umbrella of political views on a singular organising body (which doesn't file under any of these) issuing guidelines.
From a technical stand point are they not really mothers UNTIL they give birth?
I mean if someone gets pregnant and then for whatever reason the pregnancy is terminated are they still a mother? They WERE pregnant but were they a mother?
Again just a thought on the specifics on the term "mother".
[QUOTE=Irockz;51756891]Okay buddy, not sure what the far left have to do with this though. For that matter, do you even know what the far left is? It encompasses socialism, communism, syndicalism, anarchism, and everything in between. It's really fucking weird to blame a whole umbrella of political views on a singular organising body (which doesn't file under any of these) issuing guidelines.[/QUOTE]
Yes I do and those are all awful ideologies and their supporters are complete childish idiots who're what tore the labour party up and who destroyed the unions.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51757320]Yes I do and those are all awful ideologies and their supporters are complete childish idiots who're what tore the labour party up and who destroyed the unions.[/QUOTE]
"Childish idiots," said the person generalising every single supporter of a non-fascistic ideology. You're soapboxing about puerile hatred in a thread about a choice within the medical community that has no political motivations.
Or we could all stop bitching about something that makes sense, because you're going to feel like a complete idiot walking into a room saying "Well, how is our expectant mother doing?" and seeing a beardy dude stare you down off the patient chair.
[QUOTE=RB33;51755637]I care about this from a language perspective, it's damaging and idiotic. Sure, this only affects a small number of medical professionals, the problem is that it sets precedent though. It may spread and it will be for no good reason at all. Changing words like "expectant mother" because it affects 1 or 2 persons in a country of 60 million is nothing other than an overreation. The elderly, disabled, biological changes are completely unnecessary. Avoiding mankind and manpower is just stupid, they are already gender-neutral. They are already used to refer to both genders, what's the problem. The changes to spastic and mongol are the only good, i see here. Don't change language because very few people made up reasons to be offended by a bunch of harmless words.[/QUOTE]
Why do you care so much? Also language is constantly changing, complaining about thr corruption of language is the dumbest possible reason to complain.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51760424]Why do you care so much? Also language is constantly changing, complaining about thr corruption of language is the dumbest possible reason to complain.[/QUOTE]
Why do they care so much? Changing completely viable words that are non-offensive to most reasonable people. I would like to talk and write the way i want without people complaining it isn't correct enough or it could hurt the feelings of 2 people. The problem is them caring in the first place, just leave it alone. It works fine as it is.
[QUOTE=RB33;51760481]Why do they care so much? Changing completely viable words that are non-offensive to most reasonable people. I would like to talk and write the way i want without people complaining it isn't correct enough or it could hurt the feelings of 2 people. The problem is them caring in the first place, just leave it alone. It works fine as it is.[/QUOTE]
Thats the thing, I don't care. Its not a big enough deal to justify outrage. Do you get this mad when people use slang?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51760630]Thats the thing, I don't care. Its not a big enough deal to justify outrage. Do you get this mad when people use slang?[/QUOTE]
People don't come to me and say i should speak slang because it's the right thing to do. So they can do whatever they want to themselves.
[QUOTE=The golden;51760935]You clearly have absolutely no idea what transgender men are how they feel and should probably stop talking shit.
Seriously, go to Google Images right now and type in "transgender man" and then ask yourself why these people should be referred to as female when they very clearly have put in great effort to show that they are anything but. They're dudes.[/QUOTE]
This is larger than just transgender men. The article itself mentions:
[QUOTE]"The elderly" should be referred to as "older people", "disabled lifts" called "accessible lifts" and someone who is "biologically male or female" should be called "assigned male or female". "Mankind" and "manpower" should be avoided because it is "not good practice" to use a "masculine noun", instead swapped for "humanity" and "personnel".[/QUOTE]
These things are stupid and just makes people dislike actual good progress like you might be advocating.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;51754344]Can the far left just fuck off[/QUOTE]
Can the identity politics fuck off so we can address the real issues.
[QUOTE=RB33;51762537]People don't come to me and say i should speak slang because it's the right thing to do. So they can do whatever they want to themselves.
This is larger than just transgender men. The article itself mentions:
These things are stupid and just makes people dislike actual good progress like you might be advocating.[/QUOTE]
How hard is to say any of that.
It's not like they're making you say obscure, weird, made up words, they're all almost synonyms.
You don't have to be worried about offending someone by using the other words because it's not like there are actual people being offended by words like "manpower".
Now.
You're right, we shouldn't go around telling people what words to use and how to speak, but when you speak without caring about how others might feel, it makes you come off as an asshole and no one likes talking to assholes.
If someone tells you address them in a certain way, it's preferably to do it.
[QUOTE=Sgt. Nikolai;51762788]How hard is to say any of that.
It's not like they're making you say obscure, weird, made up words, they're all almost synonyms.
You don't have to be worried about offending someone by using the other words because it's not like there are actual people being offended by words like "manpower".
Now.
You're right, we shouldn't go around telling people what words to use and how to speak, but when you speak without caring about how others might feel, it makes you come off as an asshole and no one likes talking to assholes.
If someone tells you address them in a certain way, it's preferably to do it.[/QUOTE]
The asshole here is the people expecting you change to your way of speaking because they can't deal with words like manpower and biologically male. Instead make an effort to understand people and accept the way they speak and don't feel offended by it. It's easier than to make everyone change the way they speak. Also more people probably think they are assholes if they want you to say words like humanity instead of mankind, at least annoying.
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