• Don't call pregnant women 'expectant mothers' as it might offend transgender people, BMA says
    253 replies, posted
[QUOTE=gufu;51774821]Can I call you a white eurotrash nigger, then? [editline]4th February 2017[/editline] I mean, basing on your flagdog, you're probably a white male who is not very smart, especially if he thinks that somehow having guidelines for people is an attack on them. So you know, just being direct and stuff. [editline]4th February 2017[/editline] And if that doesn't actually bring about the point, do you disagree that any attempt to actually think of your wording in regards to anyone, is a good thing?[/QUOTE] It's not attack on them, it's an attack on the language. Making nonsense exceptions and changes, would be easier to make current words acceptable than having people change their vocabulary. There is a limit where it becomes ridiculous regarding the words you need to change. [QUOTE=Sgt. Nikolai;51775496]This is how I believe a decent adult would handle the issue in real life Nurse: "we would prefer if you could refer to other patients as <synonym >" Person: "Oh, I didn't know. Sorry, I'm going to try to speak to them different then" RB33 Nurse: "Could you please change your tone and words while speaking to patients, please?" RB33: "No, why are you going to tell me how to speak? I can talk people in any way I want. These people need to man up and deal with it. I'm not going to change even if it sounds "offensive" to them, it's not my fault they are to sensitive and can't deal with my words without getting their feelings hurt".[/QUOTE] Nurse: 2 people out of 100.000 will get offended if you say mankind because it's not "good practice" to use a "masculine noun". RB33: No, i'm not saying humanity instead. They shouldn't feel that offeneded by it, it's not reasonable in any way. People shouldn't get offended by words that aren't meant to hurt you. [editline]4th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;51775826]Getting mad about this is about as stupid as getting mad because school teachers aren't allowed to call black students niglets or handicapped students mongoloids. Businesses and institutions have regulations that state what is appropriate to say while working there. This has been the case for literally thousands of years.[/QUOTE] It was appropriate until now and it wasn't meant to be offensive, so why change it? Why not get them to understand that there is no bad intent? We can't change everything because some don't like it, we need to have a limit somewhere. I should add, i'm talking about the words in the article.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51775733]You can't just assume everyone is going to be a-okay with what other people insist on calling them.[/QUOTE] There's a [B]big difference[/B] between saying something to someone that obviously isn't offensive, and telling people that they need to change their language, that of which there's nothing wrong with. [B]Hint:[/B] the latter is more offensive. [editline]4th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RB33;51775831]People shouldn't get offended by words that aren't meant to hurt you.[/QUOTE] This x1000. We're starting to become a society where people are allowed to get angry at people for absolutely no reason at all. What happening to freedom of speech, or just freedom in general? What happened to people being able to get on with their lives like they did before, where it has never caused any issues?
Freedom of speech is so the government can't arrest you for saying something stupid. An employer can still absolutely fire you.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51775826]Getting mad about this is about as stupid as getting mad because school teachers aren't allowed to call black students niglets or handicapped students mongoloids. Businesses and institutions have regulations that state what is appropriate to say while working there. This has been the case for literally thousands of years.[/QUOTE] There's a very big difference between the word "niglet" and "expectant mother". If you seriously think these are in the same category, then I have no hope for you.
Here, at least. I imagine it's not so different there either. An employer can enforce standards they find to be important.
[QUOTE=Pascall;51775945]Freedom of speech is so the government can't arrest you for saying something stupid. An employer can still absolutely fire you.[/QUOTE] If an employee got fired for saying something that clearly isn't offensive, then in the UK at least that would count as [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_dismissal_in_the_United_Kingdom"]Unfair Dismissal[/URL]
[QUOTE=The golden;51775988]On behalf of the transgender community, I thank you for having absolutely zero understanding of how we feel and telling us our feelings aren't important and we should just "deal with it." You're a truly great and heartwarming person. :rolleyes: "need a limit" You do understand that the words they're switching to are extremely common and often-used English words, right? If your "limit" is literally everyday-English then I worry for your future.[/QUOTE] If you look at what i have actually said, i only argued against the "biological male/female" thing. I'm not against using appropriate pronouns and not using expectant mother. You can't force name changes on everyone else though. You want to called a certain thing, use certain words, fine. Those don't have to apply to all others. They are not as common in that context and are changed for unnecessary reasons. If i and some others started making demands on changing the language to not offend us, would you accept that?
[QUOTE=The golden;51776070]You're looking into the male/female thing waaaaaaaaaaay too much. No person actually calls another person an "assigned male" or "assigned female". In a hospital setting you MUST give your actual physical sex to the doctors even if you are transgender because medical treatment does vary. All this is doing is rewording things so that when you do get asked that inevitable question - it just softens the blow a little bit for those who are trans. No person is going to walk around calling you an "assigned male" or "biological male" that's just silly.[/QUOTE] So "soften the blow a little bit" is reason enough to change it for everyone? It's such a minor thing and doesn't need to change. It will be a weird question to get if you're not transgender and as i said it doesn't seem to be the exact same thing as biological sex either. [QUOTE]If you can present a mature reason for why you are upset and what logical alternative language you would prefer, then yes I would accept and support it. I use modified language for many people who are sensitive to certain things. Works fine for me. They stay happy and we can carry on a conversation and chill.[/QUOTE] There will come a point where I or anyone else will suggest something that sounds ridiculous to you. Even if they might have a mature reason for it. You're still going to say it even if it sounds ridiculous?
[QUOTE=The golden;51776125]If it is such a minor thing to change then why are you having a hissy fit over it? It helps make some people feel comfortable while also not affecting you AT ALL. Like literally this doesn't impact you even slightly. Don't even pretend it does either because it doesn't (and I don't just mean the fact that you're not even in the UK).[/QUOTE] It won't affect me much but when i'm asked at the doctor to sign a form. It asks me of assigned sex instead of biological sex. I will think that's a weird and unnecessary change. You're right it probably won't affect more than that. But if the change isn't more than insignificantly helpful, i don't think you need to change it. Just stick with what people are used to. [QUOTE]Even if it sounds ridiculous to me I will still say it on behalf of the persons comfort because I'm not a dick. I don't put my own petty feelings before other peoples comfort. You shouldn't either.[/QUOTE] I try not to be a dick either, but if they are going to ask me to call them or use some word that's either made up and ridiculous or a completely unecessary change. I won't. Easier to adapt existing words than make up a bunch of alternative words, which you need keep track of.
[QUOTE=The golden;51776202]"Much" No, it won't affect you [B]AT ALL.[/B] They're two different ways of saying the same thing and you won't see neither in everyday speech. It's meant purely for specific medical instances like forms and documents. The fact you want to deny people comfort and some small measure of happiness because it feels "weird" to you is pretty disgusting, to be honest. I'm quickly getting the impression you're one of those people that feels "victimized" by the attempts by minorities to not be treated like shit. Especially with your "Just deal with it because I find it weird" attitude.[/QUOTE] I'm not allowed to be asked of my biological sex anymore? It must be called assigned? It isn't important but do only what they want matter? When minorites force their terms and words upon the majority without any input from them, that's a pretty inconsiderate thing to do. Trying to be considerate to some is making you inconsiderate to others.
[QUOTE=The golden;51776263]Bingo.[/QUOTE] It can become a problem and is likely heading that way. If people keep getting offended by words and wanting to change them. When will we stop? If you don't want to make exceptions because you don't want to be a dick. How much do have to think before you talk in the end? Because you will probably end up saying something offensive otherwise. Exceptions have to be made or it isn't reasonable. Making people accept more words than fewer words is better for communication for both them and others and having people learn how to use these new words is just going to be a hassle. [QUOTE]Again I'm just going to point out you're having a temper tantrum over words being replaced with ones that are already common-place everyday English.[/QUOTE] Yes, they exist. But now they got new uses and you still need to learn how and when to use them.
[QUOTE=The golden;51776263]Bingo. Again I'm just going to point out you're having a temper tantrum over words being replaced with ones that are already common-place everyday English.[/QUOTE] I've very rarely heard the words that the BMA want the original terms to be replaced with used, and I've never ever heard in my entire life someone say "pregnant people".
[QUOTE=djjkps2;51776315]I've very rarely heard the words that the BMA want the original terms to be replaced with used, and I've never ever heard in my entire life someone say "pregnant people".[/QUOTE] I would say that's because of the very few people who are pregnant that aren't females. Common sense solution: Call non-females who get pregnant "pregnant people". The rest "expectant mothers". You should never change a word that's used for hundreds of thousands of people, just because of a couple of people.
[QUOTE=RB33;51776333]I would say that's because of the very few people who are pregnant that aren't females. Common sense solution: Call non-females who get pregnant "pregnant people". The rest "expectant mothers".[/QUOTE] Females are the only sex that can get pregnant though. This is so dumb
[QUOTE=Sally;51776355]Females are the only sex that can get pregnant though. This is so dumb[/QUOTE] Exactly. Yes there will be very rare cases where someone wants to be identified as a man and gets pregnant, but you're technically still a woman if you're getting pregnant. Men don't get pregnant, you learn this stuff in primary school…
[QUOTE=RB33;51776100]There will come a point where I or anyone else will suggest something that sounds ridiculous to you. Even if they might have a mature reason for it. You're still going to say it even if it sounds ridiculous?[/QUOTE] if you think its ridiculous well uh the problem is on you
[QUOTE=djjkps2;51776384]Exactly. Yes there will be very rare cases where someone wants to be identified as a man and gets pregnant, but you're technically still a woman if you're getting pregnant. Men don't get pregnant, you learn this stuff in primary school…[/QUOTE] Yes, we know biological males don't get pregnant. We know. That's why transgender men don't usually get pregnant, it can cause a fuckton of dysphoria since it's so associated with women and our biological sex. However, it's incredibly rude to call one of us a woman even if we are pregnant, because we're not women-biologically female, yes, but still men regardless. I can't for the life of me understand why it's so hard to just not call someone who identifies as male an expectant mother or a woman or whatever else.
[QUOTE=GreySky;51776418]Yes, we know biological males don't get pregnant. We know. That's why transgender men don't usually get pregnant, it can cause a fuckton of dysphoria since it's so associated with women and our biological sex. However, it's incredibly rude to call one of us a woman even if we are pregnant, because we're not women-biologically female, yes, but still men regardless. I can't for the life of me understand why it's so hard to just not call someone who identifies as male an expectant mother or a woman or whatever else.[/QUOTE] If someone wishes to be individually identified as a man, then that's fine. However on a whole and by default, you would refer to people as pregnant women.
[QUOTE=djjkps2;51776440]If someone wishes to be individually identified as a man, then that's fine. However on a whole and by default, you would refer to people as pregnant women.[/QUOTE] Well, that makes sense, as the vast majority of pregnant people are women. I still think using pregnant people is a nice compromise though, as it eliminates any chance of misgendering a trans man, and I'm sure most wouldn't really mind a neutral term. It also shouldn't be made into a huge deal by either side, honestly.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.